- Hey, everybody. Welcome back.
In this video, we're going to give you five tips
for doing public speaking with confidence,
especially if you are introverted.
And to do this, I have a special guest, Shelly,
from the YouTube channel, "Shelly Saves the Day!"
Say hi, Shelly.
- Hey, everyone.
- Shelly does livestreaming from her channel.
You can check it out.
I will put a link to her channel
in the description below this.
And I have invited her on
to talk about public speaking today
because about a month ago,
I saw her do a fantastic presentation,
and I thought since she has admitted to me
that she's a extreme introvert and I'm an extrovert,
I thought we could bring on a genuine introvert
for you viewers, so you can get her perspective.
She used to work at Amazon, Google,
and she now works at TubeBuddy,
which if you're in the YouTube world,
you probably know what that is.
It's a company that YouTubers use the app a lot
for their channels.
And I was wondering before we get
into the meat of it, Shelly, if you could just tell us
in your professional journey in those different positions,
what does your public speaking journey look like
to lead you to where you are right now?
- It's so interesting because, as an introvert,
sometimes one of the things I don't wanna do
is have to talk to a lot of people
or do a lot of public speaking.
And yet in every single position I've been in,
I've been in a graduated type of experience,
having to talk to more people and on larger stages.
It's a little terrifying, frankly.
But when I was at Amazon, I would speak
at a Women in Tech conference
as a speaker about my experiences.
And I remember looking down into the audience
and seeing our VP of our org as I'm berating them
about what an experience it is for women in technology
and in our particular org, so that's terrifying.
And then when I went on to Google
and I would go on and have to do public speaking,
I was running meetings for our executive-level people.
And I was like lowest person on the totem pole,
being like, what am I doing here?
Why am I telling them what to do and what not do?
And then now that I work for TubeBuddy,
it's so interesting because now I go to conferences
and I speak on stages about how to do more things
or how to be on public-facing stages.
And it's terrifying.
And it's like all of these milestones of graduated stages,
and I'm like, why am I doing this?
But they keep asking me to do it, and I keep saying yes.
- Yeah, well, you're a great public speaker.
I saw you do that presentation,
and it was really impressive.
And it doesn't surprise me that they continue
to push you out there.
But it's funny that your journey
is not unlike many people's journey.
They go to school for whatever,
and they get into a career for something maybe technical,
and they don't think they're gonna be doing public speaking.
And that's probably why they didn't go into it
in the first place.
But you show a little competence,
and they say, hey, why don't you get up there
and explain it at our next meeting, Shelly?
And then there you go. Your journey just began.
And here you are now, in some ways,
almost like a professional speaker.
You are out there at conferences
in front of big audiences speaking professionally,
representing your company.
I'm sure if someone had asked you-
- It's heart palpitations, even to hear you say that.
I mean, technically, yes, but I'm like, oh, no. (laughs)
- And a lot of people watching are gonna be
in that situation before they know it.
You're gonna do a good job at something,
and someone's gonna say, go explain that to the whole team.
And there you go. - I think you nailed it
right there- - You're off and running.
- When you said competence apparently
is confidence to other people.
And so they take someone who knows something
about whatever it is that they want to know about,
and then says, oh, you seem to know about it,
go tell everyone.
And then you're like, but, but, but,
and they're not (Alex laughs)
looking for that.
They're just like,
please just tell us what you know. (laughs)
- So as an extreme introvert, which you have admitted to be,
what overall big-picture piece of advice
would you give introverts who either want
to do public speaking or, like you, were expected to do it?
- I was gonna say, I don't know if any of us want to do it.
(Alex laughs)
We get forced or asked or voluntold to do it,
and it's a whole other story.
We don't really always get to say no to that.
But here's the thing
is I would say it's never gonna be worse
than it is in your own head.
And technically, you're not gonna get up there,
have a heart attack, and fall over and die.
That's never usually going to be the case.
It's usually going to be... - Right.
- I remember my biggest fear was saying,
is someone gonna ask me a question
that I don't know the answer to?
And am I gonna look and feel dumb and unprepared?
And that's the worst-case scenario in my mind, right?
And so that's where you think...
You build it all up in your head.
And so I would say it's never any worse in person
than it is in your own head.
And so the biggest thing you have to get over
is changing your mindset around it.
- Oh, that's so powerful.
I think so much of it, at least 50%
of people's public speaking problems,
are basically in their own head,
and nobody ever even knows that it's a problem for them.
- Yeah.
- So I have five things I noticed
about your presentation the other day in Albany.
And I was wondering if we could turn these
into talking points for tips for our viewers.
So I'll give an overview here,
and then we'll dig down for about a minute on each.
I noticed that you are authentic.
You had great engagement with the audience.
You delivered value in your message.
You kept it conversational.
And you were very persuasive without feeling
like you were giving us a sales pitch.
So let's start with the first one.
I thought you came across as very authentic.
What is your mindset- - Thank you so much.
I appreciate that. (laughs) - You're welcome.
What's your mindset going in?
What advice would you give to people about authenticity?
- Authenticity is a lot less exhausting
than always having to put on a character.
You don't have to remember like, am I like sassy,
am I funny, am I whatever?
You can be what you are, and you can just be that,
and it's enough.
And so I think a lot of people go on
and they have a completely different thing
that happens to them.
And then they get nervous
because then if anyone also asks a question afterwards
or comes up to you, it's like, do I have to be that person
or do I have to be this person?
And if you're just yourself, it's always the same.
So it's actually calming to know
that no matter what version you're gonna get of you,
it's true and authentic, so I would say do that.
'Cause a lot of people will be like,
fake it till you make it and be like...
Or you can just be scared and terrified
that you're not that person, so just be yourself.
I know it's like mom advice, but just be yourself.
- No, it's so powerful
because it's one less thing to think about, right?
If I don't have to be a character, I don't have to pretend,
I can just focus on who I am,
and then you can get down to the real work
of delivering your message.
So I also noticed you had excellent engagement,
meaning you got us, as the audience, involved.
How did you decide to do that?
And I remember, for example,
you probably remember the example I'm thinking of
about how you got us all fired up in there,
but how did you make that decision to get us involved
rather than just talking at us?
- So some of it's kind of selfish in a way
'cause, as an introvert, I didn't wanna fill the time
with just myself talking.
So it's really, really easy to almost involve people
and then be like, hey, what do you think?
And then just for that 30 seconds,
I could hear the room talking about like,
oh, I'd pick this one or this one's better.
And I don't have to say anything. I can agree.
I can just nod. I can be like uh-huh.
I already know in my head how it's gonna play out,
so I kind of can chuckle to myself
that everyone has already guessed wrong.
And so that's a really interesting position
because nothing is needed of you of that particular moment.
And you could just be like, hey, what do you think?
And having that little piece of conversation, right?
And everyone is gonna have an opinion,
so your example was I put two pictures up
of two different thumbnails on the screen,
and I would ask people,
"One of these performed a lot better than the other one.
Which one do you think it is?"
And you leave it open,
and someone would be like, "This one."
And then I'd be like, "Okay, well everyone raise your hand
if you think it's this one or that one."
And as you start to build that participation,
it's like, oh, wow, they're listening to me.
They're interacting with me. They're engaging with me.
And wow, look at this, we're forming a relationship.
They're not so scary. They're not gonna kill me, right?
All of that is going through your head,
and so you feel more comfortable because it's just easy.
- Yeah. That's great.
I do that in the classroom as a teacher.
Of course, I'm always trying to get hands-on
instead of just lecturing.
But your example was fantastic.
You used images that engages people.
You had asked us really clear questions,
"Which one do you think is better?"
And then you had us guessing,
talking about it amongst ourselves and voting.
I think you even had us raise our hands.
- Yeah. - Right?
That's engagement. - Right?
- And then, of course, you revealed in most cases
that a lot of us were wrong.
- I know. - And that was kind of like,
wow.
That was fascinating to us how we could be so wrong
since we sort of do this professionally.
- I think you love being in the know,
like you know what's gonna happen.
And that little tickle of like, oh, they all got it wrong.
Just wait.
(Shelly laughs) - Yeah, you had the answers
ahead of time.
- Yeah.
- You were also delivering value, that next point.
You did a great job and kept our attention
because you were giving us something that we needed.
And I think we talk about this in video.
We say if people are clicking and watching a video,
they're investing their time,
so you better give them some value.
Give them something that they need.
But we don't talk enough about that
in the public speaking world.
We just say, do a good job, try to analyze your audience
and tailor your message to them.
But we don't talk about delivering value.
But you did in your presentation.
You gave us something we needed.
So can you talk a little bit about your mindset
in crafting that message so it helped us?
- Yeah, so one thing that I sometimes think about
is going to be that they're never going
to remember the words, but they'll remember what you said
or that feeling that you get.
So they may not remember everything that I talked about,
but they remember they had a good time.
They laugh. They learned.
It was like something stood out differently
for other people at different times.
It was like what they were ready to receive
and hear at that point.
It came into their lives when they needed it.
And so if you think about that,
it also becomes really easy to talk about whatever it is
because you're like, this is not about me.
This is not about how nervous I am.
This is about, let's see, in this particular context,
how can creators get the most out of this tool
or these types of things or how can we help them?
And it becomes the end goal
of I just wanna help you guys get better.
And when you come from this very authentic
wanting to help type of place as well,
it becomes really easy to engage
and not have it be about you
but have it be about the message and the deliverable
about this is what I want you to walk away from this with.
This is what I want you to feel or how I want you to feel
or how you're gonna feel empowered when you leave this.
So that's what I really try and craft
'cause it's not really about me, it's about them.
- Oh, that's so great.
So we have this triangle in the field of communication,
speaker, audience, message.
And what you're doing there in that triangle
is you're not really thinking about yourself very much.
You're thinking about your audience and your message
and how you can connect those two for maximum impact.
And I think that puts our ego in the back seat
and it puts the focus where it should be, on our listeners.
So that's really great.
Next thing you did really well
was you were very conversational.
It never felt like a lecture
or that you were memorizing everything.
It never felt stiff or wooden.
How do you keep it conversational?
- So I think you try and build in some of those moments.
So there were some moments where I was kind of vulnerable,
and I said, "This has happened to me in the past,
and that's a whole other story."
And that is very true to my authentic self.
I have a very squirrel brain. I usually have Post-its.
I will go off on all these side tangents.
So I threw in a but that's a whole other story
for another day type of moment in my speech,
and so because that's how I speak
and that's my authentic self saying that.
So when I talk about that and when I ask you,
"What kind of thing would you do,
what kind of thing do you see,"
that is because I want to know because I'm really curious,
genuinely curious,
because it's not always about like what I can force
onto you because it's like,
if this isn't a solution that's gonna work for you,
then I don't need to waste your time listening to,
or like pushing this on you.
And I don't wanna push anything.
I wanna be like, if this isn't beneficial for you,
then I wanna know that.
But you have to know through conversation what it is,
like how people react
or what they actually wanna see from you.
And it's actually a lot easier than you think
because you can read body language
and you can just kind of hear, like what's the intonation?
You could tell that room was very like happy, and jovial,
and joking with each other, you know?
Or that's where I knew it was safe
to kinda yell at you in the audience.
And kinda come back at you.
And some rooms, you can read it,
and you know that it's not that type of room.
And so I think it's, actually, if you are intuitive
and kind of introverted, we, a lot of time, we're quiet,
but we're observant.
And so if you're kind of observant in the room,
it's really easy to kind of pick up some of those signals
and then kind of interweave it
and make it easier to be conversational.
- Yeah, and you adapt it all along the way,
like you're saying.
If people come in with a word-for-word script,
they can't do any of the things you just mentioned, really,
because they're stuck.
And so you had talking points, you had slides,
but you didn't have,
I don't remember anything that sounded word for word.
- Yeah, I do bullet points.
I have a harder time with scripts
because then I'll focus so much
on trying to read the words correctly without stuttering
or the intonation and inflection then goes,
and it doesn't seem very conversational.
It seems robotic, like you're reading a script.
- Yeah, it sounds like reading.
And who wants to hear you read your paper, you know?
- Yeah.
- Nobody wants to hear a student in class, for example,
read their student paper.
They wanna just have a conversation.
And the fifth point, our last point,
is that you were really persuasive.
- Thank you. (laughs) - I was persuaded.
But it never really felt like a sales pitch.
It just felt like you believed in the TubeBuddy app
and you brought us along.
So tell us about your mindset.
How are you persuasive
without feeling like you're a salesperson?
- So such a good question
'cause I think one of the biggest points
is that we don't wanna come across as sleazy, salesy,
persuasive too much in the wrong way.
And that a lot of the time will stem
from I haven't provided enough value.
I haven't shown you enough empirical evidence.
I haven't actually had a relationship with you
because it's really easy if you're talking with your friend
to be like, oh, you really need to check this out.
It's not a sales pitch.
It's a, oh, it's a trusted recommendation from a friend.
And so I think a lot of the fear and nervousness
that comes from feeling salesy and sleazy
is either if you don't strongly believe in your product,
you know you don't have the rapport
and relationship with an audience or a person,
and you're trying to shove a solution
into what isn't yet a problem for them.
So if I come by and I say like, this is the thing.
And they're like, but that's not my problem at all.
And I'm like, yes, but I have this thing.
So that's the thing.
When I talk about, you said,
hey, I've got language translations I'd like to do.
And I say, hey, we have this thing that can do that.
It's not all of a sudden like someone who never asked
and then saying like, hey, you need to do this
so you can do X, Y, and Z.
It was like, oh, this is actual problem that I need
and it will do it.
It's not a sale at that point.
It's just like, oh, my gosh, please help me.
Where have you been? Why didn't you tell me sooner?
- Exactly. That's what it felt like.
I was like, I couldn't believe it.
I was like, I am...
And I did.
I went right upstairs, got on my laptop,
and I ordered the advanced version.
I've been using TubeBuddy forever.
And for those who don't know, it's an app.
That's all you need to know.
But YouTubers use it.
I've been using it forever, but there is another level.
And I was happy to pay that
because now one of the extra features
is that I can translate all of my subtitles
on my videos into numerous languages.
And since that conference,
all the new videos are being translated
into about 12 different languages.
So thank you for that, Shelly.
You definitely earned your pay that day.
But it never felt (Shelly laughs)
like a sales pitch.
You just were solving my problem.
And it was such a natural outcome of a great message,
demoing the product and helping me feel
like I was excited to do it.
- I think, oh- - And so for viewers,
if you're watching,
sometimes you're gonna speak to inform people.
Sometimes you're just training them, for example,
a how-to speech, giving them some information.
Sometimes you have to persuade them.
As part of your job, you have to bring people from A to B.
You have to convince people to follow you,
and that's where persuasive speaking comes in.
That's really where you can level up your public speaking
and presentation skills.
If you can speak persuasively
without feeling like you're pitching somebody
and pushing them in a direction they don't wanna go,
that's a really great way to do that.
So those are our five tips for introverts.
Shelly's an introvert,
but really, all of these tips work for just about anybody.
So I really appreciate your time, Shelly.
Thanks for being here.
And I just wanna give your channel
a shout-out one more time.
It's called "Shelly Saves the Day!"
She has weekly livestreams. It's really fun.
I will put a link to that
in the description below the video.
Thanks, Shelly. Anything you wanna say before we leave?
- You can do it. It's a skill.
You just have to keep doing it.
- Excellent. Thanks so much for being here.
See you, everybody.
We'll see you soon. - Bye.