STACEY: I felt so rich. I had $ 3000.
That was the most money I'd ever saved in my entire life.
I'm like "I'm gonna get an apartment!"
♪ [ intro music ] ♪
Hello Brains!
I'm on a Google Meet call right now with Stacey Machelle from
We've had her on the channel before...
...but we wanted to talk this time about something...
...that we both slightly regret agreeing to.
Which is: how we handle money when we have ADHD.
STACEY: Even the way you said money...
...I can tell money's a difficult topic for you.
JESSICA: I'm not gonna lie. We had a talk on the channel about money before...
...about how to manage finances.
And those are the videos that do not get watched.
And I think it's because it's such a shameful topic.
STACEY: Oh my gosh! So what you're telling me is nobody's gonna watch this episode.
JESSICA: I think a lot of people are gonna watch this episode.
And I will tell you why.
'Cause those episodes were about how to manage your money.
How to do things better with money.
This one is gonna be "Yeah, we're getting real about this struggle."
And I think that's gonna help with that shame.
By the way, Stacey Machelle is an advocate in the ADHD community.
And she is hilarious!
Stacey have you considered that you might have ADHD?
This can be devastating news for some people.
[laughs] Yes!
[exclaims loudly] YES! ADHD?! What?!"
She also just started a Patreon. If you can, go support her.
Stacey is wonderful and has such a unique way of presenting this information out into the world.
The reason why I wanted to chat with her today about money...
...is because like a lot of people with ADHD, we both struggle with money.
And Stacey also has Dyscalculia.
For those of you who don't know what Dyscalculia is...
...it's a learning disability that is similar to Dyslexia, but with numbers.
Which would understandably impact her ability to manage money.
So I thought it would be cool to be able to have an honest conversation about money.
And how ADHD and her Dyscalculia affect our ability to manage it.
And maybe, by talking to someone who gets it...
...start to let go of some of the shame we have around that.
JESSICA: First of all, how are you feeling about having agreed to come on and talk about this?
STACEY: I feel like it needs to be talked about.
And if I'm going to do my stated mission...
...of helping to encourage and empower people with ADHD...
...especially women. Especially the parts that are uncomfortable and sticky, like finances and money.
Which is a thing that I struggle with and I know I'm not the only one.
I'm gonna do it. This is not one of those fun and cupcakes topics.
JESSICA: It's not. But I'm gonna buy myself a cupcake after.
Look at how fast it happens, though!
Look at how fast I just spent money!
Just like, cupcakes. You said cupcakes. Let me buy some cupcakes.
I struggle with money for that reason.
For the impulsivity of it.
And I guess it's emotional dysregulation, too.
I'm sad, or excited. It's just a quick way to cheer yourself up sometimes.
Or reward yourself.
What was your early experience of money?
STACEY: Okay. Well, first of all, my concept of money is
Oh, I got some money today. I got no money today.
[both laugh]
I often will walk into a store with an
...and then I'm "Okay, I have $30 to spend."
Somewhere between crossing through that barrier of the entrance way...
...and putting my hands on a basket...
...I will totally forget that I have only $30 to spend.
And now I'm loading up my basket full of everything that I need.
No matter how much I try to do the math of what I'm putting in my basket...
...it just ends up going into the ether. It's some
But I didn't even answer your question.
Your question was what was my experience growing up?
My experience growing up is, I grew up with my grandparents.
They grew up in the generation "you work hard...
...you put away your money, and you put some away for a rainy day".
This is what I heard all the time.
"We're on a fixed income. We're on a fixed income."
"Oh, you can't have that. We're on a fixed income."
"You think money grows on trees?"
I don't know if that limited my idea of money or not.
I never knew how much we were making.
I just didn't know.
I knew you had to work for money.
And I always worked very hard in my life.
I've had five jobs at one time.
But it's five jobs at one time just to make ends meet.
I had a friend who pointed out something to me one time...
...because I had to turn down a party she invited me to.
It was her birthday. And I'm like "Oh no, I gotta work two of my jobs today."
And she's like "I don't understand how you're always struggling to pay the bills."
"You have FIVE jobs."
She was like: something is wrong with this picture.
I'm like, "Damn. She is right. What is wrong with this picture?!"
But it didn't make me, like: "Let me look into the bottom of this!"
It just made me feel like: "Yeah, I'm a loser."
It just made me feel ashamed.
This was before I acknowledged my ADHD and started treating it.
So this was me, still struggling.
JESSICA: So, first of all, the moral failing, right?
There's so many terms that I've heard about money.
And about all ADHD struggles, right?
When you don't do what adults are supposed to do...
...in the way that adults are supposed to do them.
And by that I mean: most adults. Neurotypical adults.
There is this kind of judgement of you're somehow bad.
As if it's a choice, I guess?
Just the concept of being a moral failing is something I'm trying to combat.
It's one of the reasons why I was willing to come in and talk.
Come on and talk about my own money-problems.
Because I'm still scared of being judged for this.
But you were talking about something specific too, with the Dyscalculia.
So, how does that impact it for you?
STACEY: As far as the Dyscalculalia --
It's a hard word to say! -- It is!
Dyscalcl... Wait! Now I forgot how to say it!
STACEY: But anyway. I read about it. Anf the more I read about it...
...the more I read that it is one of those unrecognized symptoms.
Not used as part of the diagnosis process of ADHD.
But people with ADHD tend to have it more than the general population.
I look at numbers and literally, my vision goes white almost.
Just looking at numbers confuses me.
It gives me anxiety. Just looking at it...
...a bunch of numbers that are in the context of "you need to figure something out with these numbers."
Or these numbers are supposed to mean something to you.
I hope I never witness a hit-and-run...
..."what was the tag number?" "I don't know!"
"It was a white tag. I think it was California."
JESSICA: I didn't think about that. There are numbers everywhere, right?
Not just when we're dealing with finances.
Even seeing somebody's phone number.
STACEY: It's painful. It's painful because I always feel like...
...I almost feel helpless.
When I'm in a position to have to take care of myself.
And I've always been in a position since I've been an adult where I need to take care of myself...
...there are these moments when I know when it gets down to it...
...I can never really trust that I've got the right figures.
If I've got an accurate account of what's in my checking account.
I never really have a strong sense of what I have coming in.
Or what I have going out.
And it's very painful.
Not only because I learned of heard growing up that...
[sighs] I hate to bring race into this, or into everything, but --
In our culture, you're supposed to be a strong Black woman.
Nobody's gonna help you as a Black woman.
There are no hand-outs. You have to work hard for everything you have.
There are not gonna be as many opportunities for you as there are for other people.
So you're just gonna have to work twice as hard, to be just as good.
And to make 70 % of what they're making. Or 50 % of what they're making.
And it makes you feel like you're completely alone.
You don't have any sort of safety net.
If you don't have a safety net, you know...
...I've been very blessed to have a family.
About a year ago when I was trying to explain to my friend...
...how is it that a payment I made on my credit card was returned.
Becasue I was shocked that the payment was returned.
Because I'm like, there was money in my account to pay that.
So what had happened was, I have a credit card from one bank..
...but I was paying it from another bank.
And I would make electronic transfers, right?
So I made the electronic transfer from this bank to cover the credit card.
By the time the credit card actually collected that money...
...that money was no longer actually there.
Because I forgot I made that payment from that account.
And spent that money because it didn't disappear immediately.
Like, the money was still there. "Oh I need to buy groceries, or whatever."
And then the next week: "How is that payment returned?!"
"I paid it. There was money in my account."
You know? Things like that.
It's very frustrating and it makes you feel bad about yourself.
And it just makes you feel like you have no self-efficacy.
JESSICA: It's almost like this learned helplessness that happens.
Where we're, like, "I can't do this...
...'cause I learned so often throughout my life that it's such a struggle for me...
...that I don't even trust myself to be able to handle my finances anymore."
In terms of self-efficacy some of it's that
...some of it
That can set us up for really bad situations sometimes.
We end up in situations where we might have to...
...like, stay in a living situation that is not okay for us.
Or stay tied financially to somebody who is not treating us well.
Money and credit, it's all tied together, right?
I ruined my credit multiple times over the course of my life.
And when that happened I couldn't get basic things that I needed.
Like a car. I had to have my mom co-sign for things.
Because of that, I didn't have a sense of self-efficacy.
I can go car-shopping and pick out a car that I want, and get it.
It was like I was a teenager again.
So I ended up continually putting myself in situations that were not as good for me.
I don't know. It's so complicated.
Because it's not just about being broke and out of money.
It's also about all of the ways that that impacts your life.
And your sense of who you are as a person.
STACEY: Absolutely!
JESSICA: I'm curious. What, if anything, does actually work for you?
What do you do to manage your money?
[laughs]
Look, you're not on the street. You have an apartment, you pay your rent.
[laughs hysterically]
I just want to point out give yourself some credit.
You're doing some things right. Or have done some things right.
STACEY: When I have goals that are very specific and very important to me...
...I am able to save money for it.
Before I moved to New York city I opened a savings account...
...and just put away everything I possibly could.
I could have done better. But when I moved to New York I felt so rich.
I had $ 3000.
That was the most money I had ever saved in my entire life.
I was like "I'm gonna get an apartment!"
But it was 100 Bucks a month.
And I realized very quickly $3000 doesn't go very far in New York.
So my way of getting money to just bridge me to when I could get a job there...
...I had big pots of recycled, like recharged, AA batteries.
I went on the subway and just sold them piecemeal, one by one.
Like a dollar a battery.
JESSICA: You sold batteries? -- Yes.
And people were always looking at me "Do these actually work?"
Yes, they work. They're recharged. I promise.
And I sold those for like a dollar. A piece. On the subway.
And people were like "Okay. Ehm. I wanna buy these from you."
"But they better work."
This was 2001. People were like "Yeah my Walkman is going dead. I need some batteries over here."
[laughing]
I remember coming back in one day.
And the lady who worked the desk at night...
...she was like "What have you been up to all day?"
And I told her; "Well, selling these batteries on the subway."
And she goes "You're gonna be alright. You're a survivor."
And that meant so much to me.
That she could see that about me.
And she was right. I was always okay in New York.
Because I know how to hustle.
I know how to work hard.
I just never learned how to work "smart".
You know what I'm saying? [laughs]
JESSICA: Yeah. Yep [laughs]
STACEY: And I hate to say this, but, the biggest gift that Covid gave to me...
...was the fact that it took away all of my employment.
And for once in my life, my adult life, I was forced to sit still...
...and think about what I wanted my life to look like going forward.
Because I was always in motion.
Trying to make enough money to cover rent.
Make enough money to cover my phone bill.
Just
I want to do better than
I want to be able to have some sort of sustainable foundation beneath me...
...so I can start being a giver instead of a beggar all the time.
And that is so important to me, you know?
JESSICA: Well, thank you so much for having this super open conversation.
Let me just give you a change to promote your stuff.
STACEY: Hi Jessica's Brains! My name is Stacey Machelle.
I have a channel on You Tube called
My channel I designed specifically to address I guess under-addressed population of ADHD women.
The BIPOC community. The Black Indigenous People Of Color.
All colors though. If you're pink, please, subscribe to my channel.
If you're blue, red, yellow, deep-deep berry-dark black -- subscribe to my channel.
If you're as white as Jessica, subscribe to my channel, please.
I use humor in my channel to relay some very important information about ADHD.
And also I use it to encourage you.
Because ADHD is not 100% bad.
As a matter of fact, in my mind...
...it's 70% good and 30% bad, so...
...because all of our challenges are just the opposite side of the same coin.
JESSICA: You're good at getting people to talk about it. And you're good at talking about it.
Thank you so much for coming on.
STACEY: Thanks a lot. Talk to you soon.
I hope you enjoyed that. We're trying something new.
Thank you to my Brain Advocates and all my Patreon Brains.
For supporting this channel. Allowing me to hire people.
And pay them. Well.
Like, subscribe, click all the things,.
And check out Stacey's channel!
I'll see you next time. Bye Brains!
♪♪