- Well stop because you're gonna kill yourself.
Can't do that.
Being deadly, deadly serious Kev.
I wanna help you out but...
But it's not profitable.
- I'm selling my house.
- Don't, please, don't - No, please, listen.
(uplifting music)
Kevin's come to pitch to me to invest in this business.
He's brought a basket with half a loaf of bread
and three bottles of...
And he's asked me to help and invest in your business.
And I've said I don't invest in our own businesses,
and not in other peoples businesses so that one's
cleared there but nevertheless I wanna help you
'cause I love helping people.
All sorts of bread-- - All sorts of bread.
- Yeah, well how much do you make a day?
- I do, hovers around 300 halfers a day.
I do around 30 to 80 loaves of that all by hand.
- So every day, so you're making about 600 bits
of bread a day.
- [Kevin] All by hand.
- What time do you start work?
- 12 to 1 o'clock in the morning.
- So you start at midnight basically, yeah?
And what time do you finish work?
- [Kevin] Eight to nine.
- In the morning?
- [Kevin] Evening.
- So you start at midnight and finish at 9 o'clock...
So when do you sleep?
- One or two hours.
- A day?
- Go to bed at 11/10.
I've got a family of three.
- What, children?
- Three children and a wife.
- You're going to bed at 10 o'clock
and getting up at midnight?
- Yeah, at the moment it's crazy.
- Do you have a kip during the day as well?
- Maybe collapse on my chair when I get home maybe.
18 hours a day.
- What about Saturdays and Sundays?
- Saturday is my worst day.
- What do you mean "market?"
- The market, farmer's market.
- What, where you sell your own bread?
- Every weekend.
- Yup.
- But you don't get paid for the amount of hours
you're putting in?
- I'm working a part time job as well.
- What?
- 35 hours a week on top of this.
- What do you mean 30...
And what is that?
- Cheffing.
- So you chef for 35 hours a week?
- Pays my mortgage.
- Okay, Kevin, I totally understand.
So you're selling loads of bread, you're also doing
a 35 hour week cheffing job, you're sleeping
two hours a day.
What about Sundays, do you work Sundays?
- [Kevin] I do market every two weeks out of four.
- I mean, if you're working on this,
so you're earning less than minimum wage?
- It's crazy but I--
- Why're you doing this?
- Why am I doing it?
Because I believe the business is good, it might not
sound good in money terms but I'd rather
put the hard work in now than go and work
for someone...
- But you are working for someone as well.
I mean, if you're putting all these hours--
- [Kevin] I'm only working for that person
because I've got...
I don't want to do that but I've got to also be sensible.
I've got a family, a mortgage.
- And you're making 600 rolls a day out of one single
oven, or 600 bits of product?
So is that why it's taken you so long,
'cause you have to wait for them to finish?
- Yup, and making it all by hand.
- Then the drinks thing, you wanna now branch
out into that?
And those drinks are made out of bread?
- Yeah, but--
- This is made out of drink?
- This is horrible, this is one from Poland or Russia.
- But no one's ever heard of this before, Kevin.
- No, and that's why I wanna be the first one--
- No you don't.
- I do.
- No you don't.
- I do.
- No you don't because you're not a multimillionaire.
You're not someone that's in a comfortable place.
- You do not need money to start something big.
- No but no ones gonna buy it.
People you might know, you're not gonna sell enough of this.
You're not gonna sell enough of it and it's gonna be...
Mate, I think you should get your first business,
your bread rolls, sell more that.
Get that over the line and then--
- [Kevin] Bread's such a hard business to crack.
- Mate, I'm telling you now, selling drinks
made of bread is gonna be harder.
Who?
- Kombucha, which is fermented tea,
which is--
- But I don't drink fermented tea, I drink cups of tea
with Yorkshire Gold.
You know, mate, basically look at Richard Branson, right?
Let's talk about Richard Branson, his first business,
you know what he did?
He sold records.
Yeah, he sold records 'cause everyone wants records
back in the 70s.
- [Kevin] That's why I'm selling bread.
- Yeah, but then, then he went on and he moved up
and now he's doing space tourism.
But he's made his billions.
- [Kevin] I've heard this--
- Yeah, but you're the same situation, this is,
this is not, this, in a little way, is space tourism.
Like, you need to make sure you've got
a foundation of wealth before
you go and do your passions.
Like, you're still passionate about bread, aren't you?
You say that you love making your bread, hand-crafted,
you know, you could turn that into 200,000 pound
a year business that pays you 80,000 pound a year.
- I dunno how to scale up with it.
- Mate, I dunno how to scale that up.
Making drinks made of bread, if you wanna launch a product,
it's like having a baby, it needs all of your time,
effort, and energy, and you've already...
You're doing a 35 hour job, you're sleeping two hours
a day, you're working seven days a week,
you're running a market, you're making bread,
and now you're making drinks
made out of bread because some people in Russia like it.
Basically, you know, this is the way I explained it,
there's six horses at a race and there's one jockey,
and each six horses represent an opportunity.
And you're riding your opportunity, your job
that you're working 35 hours a week.
The doors open, the horses are racing, so you're
riding your job and then you start riding the next horse
which is making bread.
Then you go over here and you start doing market stalls
selling your bread, so now you're riding three horses,
one jockey, and then to top it all off,
you now wanna make drinks made out of bread.
So now you're riding four horses and you've got a family
and you're only sleeping two hours a night.
So to me you need to focus,
follow one course until successful.
Once that bread thing is making you money and spinning
cash off, then do your passions and hobbies.
Start getting some sleep 'cause you're gonna kill yourself.
You can't live on two hours sleep a night.
Madness.
How can you operate on two hours sleep a night?
- I don't know.
- Well stop, 'cause you're gonna kill yourself.
Can't do that.
I'm being deadly, deadly serious, Kev.
Like, you could easily-- - I'm cursing myself.
- You could easy sell 200 grands a year
worth of this stuff here in Essex.
I'm losing the will to live here, Kev.
(laughs)
I've never ever wanted to...
Mate.
Now I'm all for entrepreneurialism, I'm all for going
out there, getting stuff done.
I am that guy.
I'm really concerned.
I'm just worried that ya...
I wanna help ya but, I like...
I work with people that they've got brewing companies,
they struggle, they're really tough,
you gotta go really big.
It looks great, this looks like proper homemade bread.
- It is.
- And you should be focusing on that because
it's easy to get customers.
Here's the great thing about that, you get a restaurant
on board, they'll keep your people in from you, won't they?
- I've had people buying.
- So people would look at me and go, well, it's all right
for you, you've got day nurseries, you've got farm
parts, you got indoor place.
I spend a million pound a year on managing them.
So these are people not to service, I've got
a fully qualified accountant.
We have a strong management team which costs a lot
of money, but it's just you and you and you.
- That's why I'm trying--
- And you, you're only having two hours sleep a night.
This is gonna add another load of thought dimension,
just stop it.
Just do this.
Trying to find a way of how you can do all
of this with more sleep because, yeah, I'm sure
you can live on two hours sleep for a period of time
but eventually you will crash.
Well I would put a finish day of when the bread
business is finished.
You say, what I want the profit to be when the business
if finished, then you work out when the revenue
you need to bring in to make that profit happen.
Then you ascertain what you're team looks like,
what the culture of the business looks like,
and what do you need to do.
What do you need to become, what do you need
to behave and do to have all those things to happen.
You know, I work hard, don't get me wrong,
but I do have some down time, thinking time,
where you're resting your body because then you'll
be re-energized to think and do better next time.
Then you need to think, right,
where's the margin in my business.
If you're passionate about making all these homemade
products and stuff like that, I applaud that.
But all of that becomes a lot easier when you've got a core,
base business that drives profit so can really spend time--
- [Kevin] It doesn't make a profit.
- You're not paying yourself a salary?
- No.
- Right, if I wanted to do the hours that you are working
I'd be probably paying you 60,000 pound a year.
I'm just telling you how it is,
'cause you're not accounting, you're not even
giving yourself minimum wage for the hours
you're putting in are you?
And I can see you're passionate about bread,
you're a fully qualified chef, you can sort it out.
Don't mess around with this stuff until
you've got the first thing over the line, finish successful.
You have to start in the easy stuff, build up
some credibility, build up some profitability,
build up some turnover, build up some customers,
and if they love you that much,
they'll come buy from your market stall.
You need to be in one place selling to many.
You don't sell bread one-to-one.
How much is a loaf of bread?
One pound fifty, yeah?
- [Kevin] To sell to?
The public?
- Two pound/ three pound?
- [Kevin] About three pound.
- Three pound?
So you go and deliver a three pound
loaf of bread door-to-door?
You need to get them to come to you, you need to find
a busy market stall, you need to be going to food
and craft fairs, and selling en masse.
- I do use, my big ones are--
- You're not doing this delivering door-to-door
stuff still are you?
- Yeah.
- So you go deliver a loaf of bread for three pound?
- It's just the same.
- Just stop doing that, just stop it.
But it's not profitable!
You must be just, do you not just feel exhausted?
- Yup, I've had so many people who say I cannot do it
and I'm--
- No, listen to me, please, Kev, listen to me.
You will make more money by turning less money.
If you stop delivering to people for one pound fifty
you're gonna make more money.
Less fuel, less tires on your car.
You're gonna start sleeping a few extra hours a night,
and you're gonna be thinking smarter.
You gotta work hard, and you gotta think smartly as well.
They both have to go hand in hand.
All them people don't wanna spend one pound fifty,
get them to come to you, get a market stall
in different places, you should be doing that stuff.
- I always have a hunch that I'm on to something
and I'm always then going back from what I feel.
And every time I do that, I look and I see it,
and I'm like damn, why did I just talk and not go ahead?
And that's why--
- What you talking about, this?
- [Kevin] Yeah.
And that's why this one--
- Listen to me, I don't know how many times I've got
to say this to you.
This is not finished, this business.
You don't start a new business
until the last one's finished.
No, no, no.
Please, mate.
Get this one over the line, get it finished.
Forget this then in five years time, three years time,
two years time, and you've got a bit more time back
and you're thinking smarter.
- I'm gonna throw a curve ball in here.
I'm selling my house.
- Don't, please. - No, listen.
- Don't put any of your money into that.
So strongly advising you, I never usually tell people
not to do this, do not put house money into this.
If you're gonna put any money in something,
get yourself a bigger oven for this,
and do this en masse, and get yourself some sleep.
Any money that you get now, put into sleep.
I don't know anyone that's living on two hours
a night of sleep consecutively, and happening all the time.
I really wish you the best, I don't think
you should sell your flat, I think you should keep that,
rent it out and move in with the in-laws
so you've got income.
'Cause I think if you just get a lump of capital
you'll start bloody spending it on (word muted)
that doesn't work.
And you haven't got something over the line yet.
- [Kevin] So your advice is?
Don't sell, rent?
- Yeah, never sell your properties.
- [Kevin] Forget about the drink.
- Do not do the drink.
Sell this more.
No one gets a single loaf from you delivered ever again,
unless their spending a hundred pounds
with you, don't deliver.
You're obviously such a lovely guy but I hope that you
have picked up some stuff from me, like don't deliver
to anyone for less that fifty pounds/a hundred pounds.
And I'm being harsh on ya because I don't want you
to forget what I'm saying, I don't want you
to carry on with this folly.
You know, I wanna see you in five years time
and you say yeah, I'm having eight hours sleep a night,
seven hours sleep a night,
I'm spending quality time with my family.
The drinks thing, mate, just push that to one side.
Sort out the bread business first of all.
There's miles more that you can do with that.
Mate, I've gotta go now but hopefully I've helped
you enough. - Yeah, you've helped me mate.
I probably spend more time of day drinking cups of tea
than you do asleep and that ain't right.
(laughs)
- That's awful.