♪ ♪ ♪ >> Stephen: HEY, EVERYBODY,
WELCOME BACK TO OUR QUARANNIVERSARY SPECIAL HERE AT
"A LATE SHOW."
LET'S SAY HELLO TO A MAN I'VE MISSED FOR A YEAR, JON BATISTE.
HELLO, JON.
>> Jon: HELLO, YINDEED, STEPHEN, HOW ARE YOU FEELING?
>> Stephen: YOU KNOW WHAT, HOPEFUL.
I'M HOPEFUL, WHICH IS A DANGEROUS FEELING BECAUSE YOU
DON'T WANT TO GET BURNED, BUT I MEAN, THINGS ARE LOOKING UP.
EVIDENTLY, ALL ADULTS ELIGIBLE FOR SHOTS BY THE TIME WE GET TO
MAY, STARTING MAY 1-- AM I RIGHT WITH THAT?
IS THAT WHAT BIDEN SAID LAST NIGHT?
THAT'S GOT TO GIVE YOU A LITTLEERATE OF HOPE RIGHT THERE.
I'M TRYING TO LOOK ON THE THE BRIGHT SIDE.
>> Jon: PULL YOURSELF UP ON THE ROPE OF YOUR HOPE.
COME ON.
LET'S GET IT.
>> Stephen: I-- I'M JUST WONDERING IF THERE'S ANYTHING
ABOUT THIS ABSOLUTELY DEVASTATING YEAR THAT WE'VE JUST
GONE THROUGH, IS THERE ANYTHING OUT OF IT THAT WAS A POSITIVE
FOR YOU IN YOUR OWN LIFE?
>> Jon: I THINK FACING THE INTERNAL, THE THINGS THAT IN OUR
BUSY LIVES WE MAY NOT GET A CHANCE TO SIT AND DEAL WITH.
WE'RE FORCED TO DEAL WITH THEM IN THIS TIMES.
I THINK THAT'S A POSITIVE, ACTUALLY.
>> Stephen: THAT OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE STOCK?
>> Jon: YUP, YUP, YUP.
AND BE WITH THOSE-- IF WE WERE TRAPPED WITH THOSE WE LOVE, IT'S
ALSO A PLUS, AND I WAS.
SO THAT'S A GOOD THING.
>> Stephen: THAT'S TRUE.
AND YOU DID IT WITHOUT DRINKING ( LAUGHS )
>> Jon: THAT'S RIGHT.
>> Stephen: THAT'S DARE-- THAT'S DAREDEVIL BEHAVIOR IN MY
OPINION.
GOOD FOR YOU.
GOOD FOR YOU, EVILICA NEVELE.
>> Jon: HEY, RIDE THEM!
>> Stephen: DO YOU HAVE ANY HOPEFUL MUSIC FOR US TONIGHT?
>> Jon: YES, YES, LET'S SEE.
♪ ♪ ♪ >> Stephen: THANK YOU, JON.
JON BATISTE, EVERYBODY.
THE.
>> Jon: YES, INDEED.
>> Stephen: MY GUEST TONIGHT IS THE CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER TO
THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE VOICE OF REASON WHO GUIDED US THROUGH THE
PAST YEAR.
PLEASE WELCOME TO "A LATE SHOW, DR. ANTHONY FAUCI.
DR. FAUCI, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME, STEPHEN.
I APPRECIATE IT.
>> Stephen: I'VE WANTED TO HAVE YOU ON FOR A YEAR.
WE'VE TRIED TO HAVE YOU ON ALMOST EVERY WEEK FOR A YEAR.
WE COULD NEVER GET YOU.
AROUND JANUARY 20, YOUR SCHEDULE REALLY OPENED UP.
WHAT CHANGED?
( LAUGHS ) >> EVERYTHING.
>> Stephen: GOOD.
I HOPE IT KEEPS CHANGING.
NOW, I'VE GOT A LOT I WANT TO ASK YOU, BUT THE FIRST THING I
HAVE TO ASK YOU IS ABOUT WHAT PRESIDENT BIDEN ANNOUNCED LAST
NIGHT, IS THAT BY MAY 1, ALL ADULTS IN THE UNITED STATES WILL
BE ELIGIBLE FOR COVID-19 VACCINES.
HOW-- HOW DID THAT COME ABOUT SO QUICKLY?
THAT'S MUCH SOONER THAN WE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE.
>> WELL, WHAT, AS YOU PROBABLY HAVE NOTICED OVER THE LAST
COUPLE OF WEEKS, THERE HAS BEEN A REAL CONCERTED EFFORT TO GET
MORE VACCINES AVAILABLE, FOR SIGNING CONTRACTSs, FOR
EXAMPLE, WITH MODERNA AND PFIZER TO GET AN ADDITIONAL 100 MILLION
DOSES A PIECE FROM THEM, TO GET A TOTAL OF 600 MILLION DOSES.
J&J, WHICH WE ORIGINALLY CONTRACT FOR, FOR 100 MILLION
DOSES, A DEAL WAS MADE FOR, YET AGAIN, ANOTHER 100 MILLION
DOSES.
SO IT WAS A QUESTION OF REALLY MAKING A FULL-COURT PRESS TO GET
MORE VACCINE AVAILABLE.
AND AS YOU DO, YOU GET THROUGH THE PRIORITIES SO THAT YOU GET
TO A POINT WHERE YOU REALLY HAVE ENOUGH TO GIVE TO EVERYONE.
AND THAT PUSHED IT BACK BY A COUPLE OF MONTHS, WHICH IS
REALLY GOOD NEWS, WHICH MEANS WE LIKELY WILL HAVE THE
OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION VACCINATED MUCH, MUCH
SOONER THAN WE ORIGINALLY HAD PLANNED.
>> Stephen: ONE OF THE CHANGES FROM THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION
TO THIS ONE IS A SENSE OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ACTUALLY HAS
A LARGE ROLE TO PLAY IN COORDINATING HERE.
IS THAT PART OF IT, THE FACT THAT THE-- PRESIDENT BIDEN IS--
IS STATING THAT ELIGIBILITY FOR ADULTS WILL START MAY 1.
IS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TAKING A LARGER ROLE IN DISTRIBUTION
AND ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS?
>> IN EVERY ASPECT OF THE ENDEAVOR, STEPHEN, IS THAT
BEFORE, EARLIER, IN THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION, A LOT OF
DISCRETION, A LOT OF AUTHORITY, A LOT OF DECISION MAKING WAS
LEFT TO THE STATES THEMSELVES, WHICH THERE STILL IS A LOT OF
THAT, TOO.
BECAUSE THE STATES INDEPENDENTLY ARE VERY IMPORTANT IN THE
IMPLEMENTATION.
YOU DON'T WANT TO BE TELLING THEM EVERYTHING TO DO.
BUT WHAT WE HAVE MORE NOW IS A COOPERATION, COLLABORATION, AND
WHAT I WOULD CALL A SINNER GEE BETWEEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
AND THE STATES TO GET THINGS DONE.
AND THAT IS REALLY, I THINK, VERY GOOD NEWS.
I HAVE ALWAYS FELT THROUGHOUT THE PREVIOUS YEAR THAT THERE
SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE INTERACTION IN THE SENSE OF SIN
JIEZING, INSTEAD OF SAYING HERE'S WHAT YOU DO AND GO DO IT.
IF YOU SUCCEED, FINE.
IF YOU FAIL THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM, WHICH IS NOT, I THINK, THE BEST
WAY TO DO IT.
>> Stephen: NOW, FOR A YEAR NOW, YOU HAVE BEEN ADVISING US
WHAT TO DO.
CAN YOU ADVISE US HOW TO FEEL?
BECAUSE I MEAN, THERE'S A-- THERE'S A CHANGE IN THE AIR.
THERE REALLY IS.
AS I WAS SAYING TO JON BATISTE EARLIER EOH, THERE'S A SENSE OF
HOPE OUT THERE, AND WE DON'T WANT TO GET BURNED.
CAN WE BE HOPEFUL THAT THIS IS GOING TO COME TO AN END SOON?
>> YES.
NOT ONLY HOPEFUL, YOU CAN BE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN THAT THIS IS
GOING TO END, AND WE WILL GET BACK TO NORMAL.
THE QUESTION IS WHEN?
AND I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S GOING ON NOW,
PARTICULARLY WITH THE AVAILABILITY OF MULTIPLE, HIGHLY
EFFICACIOUS VACCINES THAT ARE SAFE AT THE SAME TIME THEY'RE
HIGHLY EFFICACIOUS, IF WE DO THAT TOGETHER WITH A GRAL
DIMINUTION OF THE STRINJENCEY OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH MEASURES-- YOU
DON'T WANT TO TURN THE SWITCH ON AND OFF AND SAY, OKAY, WE'RE
DOING WELL.
LET'S STOP EVERYTHING THAT WE'RE DOING REGARDING PUBLIC HEALTH.
WE DON'T WANT TO DO THAT -- >> Stephen: BUT THAT'S
HAPPENING.
>> YES IT IS.
>> Stephen: ALL OVER THE COUNTRY IN VARIOUS STATES.
PEOPLE ARE GOING, "OKAY!
EVERYBODY BACK IN THE POOL."
LIKE WHAT-- WHAT IS THE CALMEST WAY YOU COULD SPEAK TO THE
STATES THAT DECIDED IT'S OVER, AT LEAST THERE'S NOTHING MORE TO
BE DONE ON THEIR END IN TERMS OF MITIGATION-- MITIGATING THE
SPREAD?
>> WELL, I'VE SAID THAT PUBLICLY MANY TIMES, ALMOST ON A DAILY
BASIS, STEPHEN, IS THAT IT IS REALLY RISKY.
RIGHT NOW, EVEN THOUGH THE CASES ARE COMING DOWN IN A VERY SHARP
DECLINE, OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF WEEKS, IT STARTED TO PLATEAU A
BIT.
AND IT IT PLATEAUS, IT'S PLATEAUING AT AN UNACCEPTABLE
HIGH LEVEL-- ABOUT 50,000 TO 60,000 NEW INFECTIONS PER DAY.
AND EVERY TIME WE'VE SEEN A PLATEAU AT THAT LEVEL, THERE'S
ALWAYS BEEN THE RISK OF GETTING YET AGAIN ANOTHER SURGE.
AND WHAT WE DON'T WANT TO DO IS GET ANOTHER SURGE.
WE WANT TO KEEP IT COMING DOWN-- IT MAY NOT BE AS SHARP AS IT HAS
BEEN OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF MONTHS OR SO, BUT IF-- A MONTH
OR TWO.
IF WE CAN GET IT TO COME AND CONTINUE TO GO DOWN, AS WE GET
MORE AND MORE PEOPLE VACCINATED, EVERY DAY OVER TWO MILLION
PEOPLE ARE BEING VACCINATED.
IF WE KEEP DOING THAT, AT THE SAME TIME AS WE KEEP A CERTAIN
AMOUNT OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH MEASURES GOING, SUCH AS EVERYONE
CONTINUING TO WEAR A MASK AND NOT JUST SAYING, "HEY, THINGS
LOOK GOOD.
LET'S JUST GO RIGHT BACK TO WHERE WE THINK WE SHOULD BE,"
WHICH EVERYONE IS EMPATHETIC WITH THAT NEED TO START TO GET
BACK TO NORMAL.
EVERYBODY WANTS TO DO THAT.
EVERYBODY WANTS TO GET ALL THE KIDS BACK TO SCHOOL.
EVERYBODY WANTS TO GET BACK TO WORK IN THE WORKPLACE AND NOT BE
WORKING FROM HOME SO THAT YOU CAN GET THE ECONOMY GOING.
IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN, STEPHEN.
IT IS, GUARANTEED, IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.
BUT WE'VE GOT TO DO IT PRUDENTLY AND CAREFULLY.
>> Stephen: NOW, I HAVE BEEN A FAN OF YOURS SINCE BEFORE IT WAS
COOL BECAUSE I INTERVIEWED YOU ALMOST EXACTLY 10 YEARS AGO.
IT WAS IN MARCH OF 2011, AND I WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT THIS
CLIP.
JIM.
WHAT'S GOING TO BE THE NEXT BIG, YOU KNOW, HOT NEW DISEASE?
WE HAVE SARS, WE HAD SWINE FLU.
AND WE HAD BIRD FLU.
AND I WANT TO GET MY GRAPHICS DEPARTMENT WORKING ON THE NEXT
THING THAT'S GOING TO SCARE THE POOP OUT OF THESE PEOPLE.
TURKEY HERPES.
WHAT'S IT GOING TO BE?
>> THE INTERESTING THING IS WE DON'T KNOW.
THERE IS ALWAYS A THREAT OF EMERGING AND RE-EMERGING
INFECTIONS.
AND ONE OF THE FEARS WE FACE IS NATURE IS THE WORST IN THAT
RESPECT.
IT COMES OUT OF NOWHERE, A LOT OF TIMES JUMPING SPECIES FROM
ANIMALS TO HUMANS.
>> Stephen: I KNOW ANIMALS ARE DANGEROUS.
THAT'S WHY I BELIEVE IN POLLUTION.
HIT THEM FIRST UPON KILL OR BE KILLED.
NOW, HOW DID THE NIGHTMARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT COMPARE TO THE
REALITY OF COVID?
>> YOU KNOW, IT MATERIALIZED, STEPHEN, UNFORTUNATELY FOR ALL
OF US, YOU KNOW A CONTINUATION OF THAT CONVERSATION WOULD HAVE
BEEN MY WORST NIGHTMARE IS WHAT I INITIALLY HINTED AT IN MY
DISCUSSION WITH YOU IS A BRAND-NEW VIRAL INFECTION THAT
JUMPS SPECIES FROM AN ANIMAL RESERVOIR TO A HUMAN, THAT'S
RESPIRATORY BORNE, THAT HAS TWO FUNDAMENTAL CHARACTERISTICS --
ONE, IT SPREADS EXTRAORDINARILY EFFICIENTLY FROM HUMAN TO HUMAN.
AND, TWO, IT HAS THE CAPABILITY OF A HIGH DEGREE OF MORBIDITY
AND MORTALITY.
AND, UNFORTUNATELY FOR ALL OF US, THAT'S COVID-19, WITH
ALREADY A HALF A MILLION PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES HAVE DIED,
525 MILLION, WITH 28 MILLION INFECTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN
DOCUMENTED.
>> Stephen: WELL, AS WE SHOWED, YOU'RE A-- A VOICE-- NOT
CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS, BUT CERTAINLY CRYING IN WHAT CAN BE
THE WILDERNESS OF POLITICS.
FOR YEARS OVER PREPARING FOR A PANDEMIC LIKE THIS.
WHAT HAS IT BEEN LIKE, AS A MAN OF SCIENCE, WHAT HAS IT BEEN
LIKE OVER THE PAST YEAR TO SEE FACTS, SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH,
SCIENTIFIC MEDICAL ADVICE POLITICIZED, RATHER THAN
UTILIZED?
>> WELL, IT'S BEEN VERY DISTRESSFUL.
AND IT'S IN MANY RESPECTS VERY PAINFUL, BECAUSE AS A PHYSICIAN,
A SCIENTIST, AND A PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICIAL, WHEN YOU'RE DEALING
WITH A FORMIDABLE ENEMY-- IF YOU REALLY WANT TO MAKE IT
METAPHORIC-- THE ENEMY BEING THE VIRUS, THE ONE THING YOU NEED
SUNEED EVERYONE PULLING TOGETHER, REALIZING THAT THE
ENEMY IS THE VIRUS, NOT EACH OTHER.
AND THE WORST POSSIBLE THING-- AND I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING
LIKE IT BEFORE, STEPHEN.
I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN A NUMBER OF OUTBREAKS OVER THE 37 YEARS
THAT I'VE BEEN THE DIRECTOR OF THE INSTITUTE, AND I-- I'VE
NEVER SEEN A SITUATION WHERE THERE WAS SUCH INTENSE
DIVISIVENESS WHERE SIMPLE, COMMONSENSE, NO-BRAINER PUBLIC
HEALTH ISSUES TAKE ON A POLITICAL CONNOTATION.
IF YOU WEAR A MASK, YOU'RE ON THIS SIDE.
IF YOU DON'T WEAR A MASK, YOU'RE ON THAT SIDE.
IF YOU WANT TO CONGREGATE, YOU'RE ON THIS SIDE.
IF YOU DON'T WANT TO CONGREGATE, YOU'RE ON THE OTHER SIDE.
IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE BECAUSE THE VIRUS IS GOING TO DO
WHAT THE VIRUS IS GOING TO DO, REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOUR
POLITICAL PERSUASION IS, REGARDLESS OF HOW DIVISIVE YOU
ARE.
AND THAT WAS EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING TO SEE THAT.
IT WAS NOT HELPFUL-- IN FACT, IT WAS QUITE HARMFUL.
>> Stephen: YOU'VE WORKED FOR SEVEN PRESIDENTS, SO IT'S NOT
THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU HAVE HAD TO DEAL WITH POLITICAL
CONSIDERATIONS, NOT OF YOUR OWN BUT FOR THE PEOPLE THAT YOU'RE
WORKING FOR.
I UNDERSTAND YOU'VE USED THE GODFATHER AS A MODEL OF
BEHAVIOR?
DO YOU GIVE PRESIDENTS AN OFFER THEY CAN'T REFUSE?
WHAT IS-- WHAT IS THIS GODFATHER MODEL?
>> NO, NO, I USED IT BECAUSE WHEN PEOPLE ASK ME, WHEN YOU GET
THINGS LIKE THE SLIGHTS THAT I'VE HAD AGAINST ME DURING THE
PAST YEAR, HOW YOU CAN CONTINUE TO FUNCTION AND WORK IN A
PRODUCTIVE WAY, AND I JUST USE THAT PHRASE FROM THE "GODFATHER"
THAT MICHAEL COLIIONSAID TO SONNY, HE SAID, "YOU'RE TAKING
THINGS PERSONALLY."
HE SAID, "IT'S NOT PERSONAL.
IT'S STRICTLY BUSINESS."
>> Stephen: HAVE YOU EVER FANTITIZED ABOUT DUMPING A
HORSE'S HEAD INTO RAND PAUL'S HEAD?
( LAUGHTER )
FANTASIZED DOING IT THE OTHER WAY WITH ME.
>> Stephen: DR. FAUCI WE HAVE TO TAKE A QUICK BREAK.
BUT WHEN WE COME BACK, I WILL ASK THE DOCTOR IF HE HAD A
CHOICE OF EACH OF THE THREE VACCINES, WHICH WOULD HE PICK?
♪ ♪ ♪