>> Jon: WELCOME BACK.
MY GUEST TONIGHT, HE IS A RELIGIOUS SCHOLAR, A BEST
SELLING AUTHOR, HIS BOOKS INCLUDES "NO GOD BUT GOD"
"ZEALOT."
PLEASE WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM REZA ASLAN.
( APPLAUSE ).
>> HOW'S IT GOING?
>> Jon: IT IS GOING VERY WELL.
>> ALL RIGHT!
>> Jon: BOY, YOUR PHONE MUST BE RINGING OFF THE HOOK.
AS A MAN WHO STUDY-- >> THE GOD BUSINESS IS VERY
GOOD.
>> Jon: VERY GOOD RIGHT NOW.
>> YEAH, IT'S BEEN VERY GOOD TO ME.
>> Jon: BECAUSE OF HOW BAD IT IS.
>> YEAH. THERE'S ALWAYS SOMETHING TO TALK ABOUT.
>> Jon: WHY-- YOU KNOW, I'VE ALWAYS SAID RELIGION HAS
GIVEN PEOPLE GREAT COMFORT IN A WORLD TORN APART BY RELIGION.
( LAUGHTER ) WHY HASN'T GOD JUST SETTLED
THIS?
>> YEAH, HE REALLY SHOULD, JUST WHO'S RIGHT.
JUST GET IT OVER WITH. YEAH.
>> Jon: WHY?
BECAUSE DOESN'T HE EVER THINK, OKAY, OKAY, THIS HAS GONE ON
LONG ENOUGH?
>> WELL, LOOK, THE THING ABOUT RELIGION THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO
UNDERSTAND IS THAT IT'S FAR MORE A MATTER OF IDENTITY THAN IT IS
JUST A MATTER OF BELIEFS AND PRACTICES.
I MEAN, THOSE THINGS ARE IMPORTANT.
BUT WHEN YOU SAY, "I'M A JEW, I'M A MUSLIM, I'M A CHRISTIAN,"
YOU'RE MAKING AN IDENTITY STATEMENT FAR MORE SO THAN A
STATEMENT OF THE THINGS YOU BELIEVE.
I MEAN, LET ME PUT IT THIS WAY-- SEVEN OUT OF 10 AMERICANS CALL
THEMSELVES CHRISTIANS, SEVEN OUT OF 10 AMERICANS.
THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A MINUTE.
SEVEN OUT OF 10 AMERICANS.
>> Jon: HOLD ON.
I DON'T DO WELL WITH THIS. >> YEAH IT'S NOT, YEAH --
>> Jon: SO YOU'RE SAYING 135%. >> YEAH, I'M SAYING --
>> Jon: WAIT, HOLD ON.
( LAUGHTER ).
>> THAT MEANS THAT-- THAT MEANS THAT-- YOU'VE GOT TO GET YOUR
KIDS TO HELP. >> Jon: RIGHT.
>> THAT MEANS THAT SEVEN OUT OF 10 AMERICAN GOES TO CHURCH ON
SUNDAY OR SEVEN OUT OF 10 AMERICANS READ THE BIBLE ON A
REGULAR BASIS --
>> Jon: I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
>> OR SEVEN OUT OF 10 AMERICANS CAN TELL YOU ANYTHING
ABOUT JESUS -- >> Jon: RIGHT.
>> EXCEPT THAT HE WAS BORN IN A MAINCHER AND DIED ON A CROSS?
NO, OF COURSE, NOT.
THE VAST MAJORITY OF THAT 70% WHEN SAY THEY I'M A CHRISTIAN
THEY'RE MAKING A STATEMENT OF THEIR IDENTITY THAT INCLUDES
THEIR NATIONALITY, THEIR ETHNICITY, THEIR WORLD VIEW --
>> Jon: RIGHT.
>> THEIR POLITICS. ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE WRAPPED UP.
SO RELIGION IS ABOUT WHO YOU ARE AS A PERSON AS MUCH AS IT IS
ABOUT WHAT YOU BELIEVE AND THE RITUALS THAT YOU PRACTICE.
>> Jon: WHAT STRUCK ME ABOUT WHEN YOU SAID THAT, YOU SAID
SEVEN OUT OF 10 AMERICANS IDENTIFY AS CHRISTIANS,
IS THE WHOLE MERRY CHRISTMAS HULLABALOO.
>> YEAH.
>> Jon: WHEN YOU SAY THAT IN A STORE, YOU HAVE A 30% CHANCE OF
BEING WRONG.
>> OF OFFENDING SOMEBODY? YEAH.
>> Jon: AND IT REALLY DOES, IT WOULD BE ALMOST LIKE SAYING,
"FROM NOW ON IN STORES JUST SAY,' HELLO, SIR'."
>> YEAH, YEAH. WELL, AS A MUSLIM, WHENEVER SOMEBODY
SAYS MERRY CHRISTMAS, I'M OBLIGATED TO SAY ( BLEEP ) YOU.
>> Jon: WHAT? IS THAT TRUE? >> YEAH.
>> Jon: IS THAT IN THE KORAN?
>> IT'S IN THE KORAN. IT'S IN THE KORAN. YEAH.
>> Jon: I HAD NO IDEA.
I THOUGHT IT WAS PART OF THE HADITH.
I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT WAS IN THE KORAN.
BUT IT BRINGS UP SUCH AN INTERESTING POINT BECAUSE I
TRULY BELIEVE THAT IF YOU REMOVE THE CONSTRUCT OF RELIGION--
AND THAT'S WHY THIS DISCUSSION OF ISLAM IS SO IMPORTANT.
>> YEAH.
>> Jon: BECAUSE NOW THE THREAD IS THAT ISLAM OF ALL THE
MONOTHEISTIC RELIGIONS -- >> RIGHT.
>> Jon: IS PARTICULARLY PRONE TO EXTREMISM, MAYBE IN THIS
MOMENT, CERTAINLY THE OTHER RELIGIONS HAVE HAD IT.
>> YEAH. YEAH.
>> Jon: BUT RELIGION IS MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE, A CHOICE BUT
NOT VIEWED THAT WAY.
>> NO, IT'S NOT.
BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, I THINK
IT'S-- LOOK, THERE'S OBVIOUSLY A SERIOUS PROBLEM WITH RELIGION--
RELIGIOUS VIOLENCE IN THE WORLD, AND PARTICULARLY IN ISLAM AND
THE MIDDLE EAST.
BUT IF YOU'RE GOING TO BLAME RELIGION FOR VIOLENCE IN THE
NAME OF RELIGION, THEN YOU HAVE TO CREDIT RELIGION FOR EVERY ACT
OF COMPASSION IN THE NAME OF RELIGION.
YOU HAVE TO CREDIT RELIGION FOR EVERY ACT OF LOVE IN THE NAME OF
RELIGION.
AND THAT'S NOT WHAT PEOPLE USUALLY THINK.
I MEAN, THEY FOCUS VERY MUCH ON THE NEGATIVES.
PART OF THE PROBLEM IS THAT THERE'S THIS MISCONCEPTION THAT
PEOPLE DERIVE THEIR VALUES FROM THEIR SCRIPTURES.
AND THE TRUTH IS THAT IT'S MORE OFTEN THE CASE THAT PEOPLE
INSERT THEIR VALUES INTO THEIR SCRIPTURES.
I MEAN, OTHERWISE, EVERY CHRISTIAN WHO READ THIS
BIBLE WOULD READ IT EXACTLY THE SAME WAY.
IN THIS COUNTRY, NOT 200 YEARS AGO, BOTH SLAVE OWNERS AND
ABOLITIONISTS NOT ONLY USED THE SAME BIBLE TO JUSTIFY THEIR
VIEWPOINTS.
THEY USED THE SAME VERSES TO DO SO.
I MEAN, THAT'S THE THING ABOUT SCRIPTURE.
ITS POWER COMES FROM ITS MALLEABILITY.
YOU CAN READ IT IN ANY WAY YOU WANT TO.
IF YOU ARE A VIOLENT MISOGYNIST, YOU WILL FIND PLENTY IN THE
KORAN OR THE BIBLE TO JUSTIFY YOUR VIEWPOINT.
IF YOU'RE A PEACEFUL FEMINIST, YOU WILL FIND JUST AS MUCH IN
THOSE SCRIPTURES TO JUSTIFY YOUR VIEWPOINT.
>> Jon: WHAT IF YOU'RE A JEW WHO LOVES A BACON EGG
CROISSAN'WICH?
IS THERE-- IS THERE SOMETHING FOR ME?
>> THAT MIGHT BE -- >> Jon: JUST AS A --
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) THERE'S GOT TO BE SOMETHING.
>> I WOULD RECOMMEND THE BOOK OF MORMON FOR YOU. THAT MIGHT --
>> Jon: YES! I KNEW IT! >> BUT I MEAN --
>> Jon: BUT THAT IS THE POINT.
>> EXACTLY.
THE POINT IS IS THAT WITHOUT INTERPRETATION SCRIPTURE IS JUST
WORDS ON A PAGE.
IT REQUIRES SOMEBODY TO READ IT, TO ENCOUNTER IT FOR IT TO HAVE
ANY KIND OF MEANING, AND OBVIOUSLY IN THAT TRANSACTION,
YOU ARE BRINGING YOURSELF, YOUR VIEWS, YOUR POLITICS, YOUR
SOCIAL IDEAS INTO THE TEXT.
HOW YOU READ SCRIPTURE HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH WHO YOU
ARE.
GOD DOES NOT MAKE YOU A BIGOT.
YOU'RE JUST A BIGOT.
>> Jon: THE VIOLENCE -- THAT'S A GOOD POINT.
AND THE VIOLENCE IN THAT REGION IS AN OUTGROWTH OF
PAUCITY OF MANY THINGS, RELIGION NOT BEING THE SOLE DRIVER OF
THESE IDENTITY DIFFICULTIES THAT ARE GOING ON.
>> THERE'S A LOT OF ISSUES THAT ARE INVOLVED-- SOCIAL ISSUES,
POLITICAL ISSUES, CULTURAL ISSUES.
ALL THOSE THINGS.
>> Jon: WILL YOU STICK AROUND AROUND.
>> YEAH.
>> Jon: WE'LL TALK A LITTLBE BIT ABOUT --
>> HOW TO FIX THE MIDDLE EAST?
>> Jon: IT'D BE NICE.
>> LET'S DO THIS.
>> Jon: ALL RIGHT. AND, BY THE WAY, WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO IT ON
AIR CAUSE THAT'D BE TOO EASY.
WE'RE GOING TO DO IT ON THE WEB. >> YEAH.
>> Jon: THE PAPERBACK OF "ZEALOT" IS ON THE
BOOKSHELVES NOW.
REZA ASLAN.