Myanmar erupted into chaos
as the military junta staged on insurrection
The media has moved on…
But the resistance continues.
Welcome to China Uncensored, I’m Chris Chappell.
Back in February, Myanmar, also called Burma, fell to a military coup.
Protests erupted throughout the country. And they were met with harsh resistance.
But the news cycle moved on to other stories. Like the
protests in Cuba. Corner Box Hey, I wonder whatever happened there?
This kind of memory hole-ing of major events is a huge boon for dictators. 4.2 billion people live
under authoritarian regimes. And these dictators are teaming up to reshape
the world in their image, at a time when democracies are more and more fractured.
So I caught up with Burmese activist Wai Hnin from this folderat the Oslo Freedom Forum in Miami,
to find out what the latest in Myanmar is and what role China is playing in the chaos.
Chris: Thank you very much for joining me today.
Wai Hnin: Thank you for having me.
Chris: The Chinese Communist Party has had an interest in Burma for a long time. What
has changed since the military takeover?
Wai Hnin: I would say very little has changed. Chinese have no interest in human rights or
supporting in democracy movement or human rights at all. We have seen a lot of people
really angry about China, actively supporting the military by supplying weapons. Also,
let's face it, China interest in Burma is the money, economy, investment. They are getting
the natural resources from my country with a very cheap discount, so they're very happy.
Chris: This was before and after the military takeover. It's just been an ongoing thing.
Wai Hnin: China, they have a lot of project inside the country.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Wai Hnin: They have a lot of project inside the country, and they have pipeline and they
are really interested in what kind of natural resources they can get out of our country.
It doesn't matter who's the government as long as they have this cheap access to our natural
resources, they are fine. But the problem we try to remind China is that if my country
is not stable, they can't have any stable or safe investment in the country because people
are saying, "Oh, if China continue to support military, they're going to blow up their Chinese
pipeline." So it's their interest to support a democracy and human rights movement in my country.
Chris: I somehow can't imagine that happening.
Wai Hnin: I don't think so either, but we, as a human rights activist,
I think we just have to keep pushing and banging our head against a wall until
something happen. We've seen that a lot of the time with the UN Security Council, everything.
We try to propose China is the roadblock. Russia is the roadblock. So we are trying to find
other ways to push the other country to do something about Burma but because
sometimes we find that other powerful countries hide behind China as well.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Wai Hnin: They're like, "Oh, we can't do anything because if we do anything at the UNSC, China will
veto it. Russia will veto it, so we won't do it," but at least, we say, or you can propose this.
Let's see where it goes rather than saying it's not going to happen.
Chris: I think that's something people miss, how these large authoritarian regimes like Russia,
like China, it's like this other axis that's supporting authoritarian regimes around the
world. It makes it very difficult for people like you to have a voice
in international institutions like the UN. Is there any way around that built-in flaw?
Wai Hnin: I think from this Oslo Freedom Forum, I learned that solidarity is very important.
What we are lacking is solidarity between
activists from all around the world. I think this type of forum bring people together.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Wai Hnin: Because all the dictatorship in the world, they have that solidarity,
they have that kind of like friendly, chummy relationship going on.
Chris: Strong men stick together.
Wai Hnin: Exactly. So we need that. I found that there are so many similarities in our struggle,
and China has become a big problem for many countries as well. So
I think there might be ways for us to work together and push something together.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative). It seems like China's exporting its tactics to these other countries.
Wai Hnin: So they are...All these surveillance technology and all these
oppression against people and stuff, they learn from each other, don't they?
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Wai Hnin: We know that China supply surveillance technology to Burmese
military, but the problem is we don't know how
big the team the Burmese military have and what kind of technology they are actually getting from
China. It's actually very dangerous for us because we already have 7,000 people in jail. If they can
actually use these technology against our people very well, I think most people will be locked up.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, it's not just the arms
sales that China is making, it's also this technology that's a real threat.
Wai Hnin: Yes. Yes.
Chris: Now I know during the protest earlier this year, some Burmese protesters felt that China
had some hand in the military junta's takeover. Why do you think they felt that way?
Wai Hnin: In my country, I think sometimes it's frustrating because there are a lot of rumors.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Wai Hnin: There is a good and bad side of social media. Social media really don't help with fake
news and rumors. So someone started that this person or this soldier looks like Chinese. But
we have a lot of Chinese descents, people in the country as well. Someone started the
rumor and all of a sudden, it's like, oh, this is China supplying their soldiers and stuff,
but everything is a fake news. It's just paranoia and also a lot of insecurities
during the protest coming out. Unfortunately, it was a fake news that didn't help people.
Chris: So what do you think the military junta's interest in China is?
Wai Hnin: Again, money. They are getting the...
Well, first of all, they are having their dictatorship buddies relationship going on. Also,
they want China to invest in the country so they keep having all these money and supply for them
and they can keep ruling the country. That's why when we are calling for military companies
or sanctions on military companies and stuff, but it is very difficult to call
China to stop investing in the country or working with the military. It's impossible.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Well, that goes back to what we were talking about earlier, how
China is a roadblock in international calls for reform. What good is a weapons embargo on Burma,
don't sell weapons to Burmese military junta when China will just do it anyways?
Wai Hnin: Well, it doesn't really mean that other countries shouldn't do it like I was saying
before. There are around 150 countries, I think, that don't have arms embargo on Burma. If they
do that, if they stop selling arms to Burma, then they have less weapons. The Burmese military don't
need more weapons for sure. Again, like I was saying before, a lot of the countries say, "Oh,
we can't have global arms embargo imposed by the UN Security Council because China and Russia will
veto it, but countries can do it unilaterally. South Korea has done it. Japan has done it.
If they impose arms embargo unilaterally, they can go behind China and they can make it happen.
Chris: One thing I think that is very interesting that I learned through the
Oslo Freedom Forum is that the military junta leaders, they're very wealthy individuals.
This is something where this is another way that the Chinese business interests could really play
a really [inaudible] role, like making these people incredibly wealthy.
Wai Hnin: My country is very rich. My country is very wealthy with natural resources.
We have gems, jade, timber everything, but for many years, we live in poverty
because all these natural resources has been manipulated and owned by the Burmese military.
All the foot soldiers are very poor. They don't even have a good pair of shoes to wear when they
go out and fight ethnic people. But top of the generals like Min Aung Hlaing and other generals,
they have designer shoes, designer bag, and everything like that, so they don't want to give
up this power. We are in this situation because Min Aung Hlaing doesn't want to give up his power,
doesn't want to give up his wealth because if he retires, there is a chance that he might
have to go to the International Criminal Court for genocide. He doesn't want to
risk that. We are in this mess eight months on because of his stupid ambition.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative). For people watching, what do you think they can do to raise awareness,
get the international community to do something?
Wai Hnin: Raise awareness is the main thing to start because
it's been eight months on and we don't really see many news about Burma anymore.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Wai Hnin: Protest is continuing every day and people are dying every day, but
we don't really see any of those on news anymore. So raising awareness and telling people that
these things are still happening, people are still fighting, is important.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Wai Hnin: Again, is to meet up with your... I don't know how it works in the US system.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Wai Hnin: Meet with your Congressman or approach them and talk about
Burma. There are so many things they can do and push them
because you have the power. You have the voice. I live in the UK. We can go and meet our MPs
and we can push them. That's the freedom that we have in this Western democratic world. So please
use those and push your government to do something because they can actually make a change.
Chris: Yeah. I think what she says is really key, people have to remember this is going on. It made
me think of the protests in Cuba, another country where China is playing a big role. Everyone was
talking about that. Then the news cycle moves on to something else and people forget about it.
Wai Hnin: Yes.
Chris: The situation in Burma, it hasn't stopped.
Wai Hnin: Yes.
Chris: So people need to remember.
Wai Hnin: Yeah. Sometimes people say, "Oh, we haven't seen it on BBC or any news anymore.
How are things? Or do you have the military dictatorship now?" So I have to remind them, no,
they haven't won yet because people are still fighting and resisting.
So people are still struggling. Just because there is no news about it anymore,
doesn't mean we are not struggling or we are not fighting for our rights. So please remember that.
Chris: Well, I'm glad you're still out there raising that awareness.
Wai Hnin: Thank you very much.
For anyone watching who would like to
follow you and know more about what you're doing, where can they go?
Wai Hnin: I work for an organization called Burma Campaign UK. We have a lot of campaigns
going on about arms embargo and sanctions. There are a lot of papers as well if you want to read.
I'm on Twitter as MissWHPT, so you can follow me as well.
Chris: All right. Well, thank you. It's been a pleasure.
Wai Hnin: Thank you.
And once again a big thank you to the Oslo Freedom Forum
for bringing activists from around the world together to tell their story.
Once again I’m Chris Chappell, see you next time.