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DARWIN: Hello, everyone, my name is Darwin.
THI LE: Is this the future science fiction promised me? Hi,
Darwin, are we ready to go see Alex? Robots in the work place?
I know just the person to ask. I'm Thi Lee and I work in
Engineering Communications at the National Science Foundation.
ALEX LEONESSA: Come in.
THI LE: There he is.
ALEX LEONESSA: Good morning, Thi, good to see you.
How are to you?
THI LE: Today I get to talk to Dr. Alex Leonessa and a special
guest. Dr. Leonessa specializes in general and age
related disabilities engineering at the NSF. Alex and I head
over to the NSF Library with our special guest.
So, Alex what are robots?
ALEX LEONESSA: Well, robots are a machine, ultimately. I mean,
if you look at the definition of robots as is recognizing the
literature; robot's a machine that are useful to mankind. So
a machine that is useless just by definition it wouldn't be a
robot. Ultimately, a robot, needs to have several components
to be recognized as such, is to be able to interact within
environment, so measured environment, interact with
environment and has some cognitive skills.
THI LE: Okay.
ALEX LEONESSA: And, of course, the funny part is that according
to that definition any human would be a robot as well, right?
DARWIN: Wow!
THI LE: So this is Darwin.
ALEX LEONESSA: This is Darwin, yes, so this was designed and
developed at Virginia Tech over numerous effort from students
from the RoMeLa - RoMeLa is Robotics and Mechanism
Lab, who actually now is not at Virginia Tech anymore but the
students still are, and after development he was acquired by
a company and, now, this company produce them and commercialized
them, and so anyone can buy one of this [] and used by many
universities for research purposes.
THI LE: As far as just general design, why kind of
a human design?
ALEX LEONESSA: Well, these particular robots were designed
originally, it's purpose was to play soccer and so this, you're
looking at one of the World Cup Winner for the Robotic Soccer
competition, RoboCup.
DARWIN: Yes. Go.
ALEX LEONESSA: And to participate with that kind of
competition that are certain kind of requirements on the
size, the shape, and the motion of the robot itself, and that's
why he was designed in this form. So Darwin is able to stand
and to see a soccer ball, go there and kick it in a desired
direction. Of course, now he's used for many other areas of
research. But he was originally designed to see a red soccer
ball in front of him and decide what was
the best trajectory to reach the soccer ball and then
kick it. Of course, out of the soccer ball, the main thing that
they would see was the color red, at least, in the way they
were programmed originally and it can do other things as well
but it was designed to recognize the color red and then follow
the color red which means that if you're wearing red shoes and
you walk down the hall it's just going to follow you because he
sees the color red and then he's going to think that that's a
soccer ball that he needs to get.
THI LE: The challenges for designing a humanoid robot, what
does that teach you about disabilities in people,
things along those lines?
ALEX LEONESSA: So a robot is a part from that and encompasses
many areas with engineering, right? So there is the
mechanical design, of course, there is the electrical design,
follow the wires, the power, computer engineering for the
computer system that is behind the way that the robot functions
and then there is all of the science things. So, now, first,
none of these senses are as sophisticated as our own five
senses, and that's why we need so many sensors because
altogether they can never duplicate what human senses can
actually do. There are principal investigator at the
National Science Foundation for example to develop a very
sophisticated touch sensing capabilities that not only
allows the robot to sense when they touch something if it's
hot, it's cold, it's soft, it's hard but actually can duplicate
that kind of sense in prosthesis to provide amputees with
recovering those kinds of feelings as well. But in
building a humanoid robot you start facing some challenges so
that then you realize how the human body is actually is the
subject to the some kind of constraints and I'll give you an
example. As soon as you start working humanoid robotics you
need to realize how the knee is probably one of the most
critical components in designing a humanoid robot.
THI LE: Wow.
ALEX LEONESSA: And as soon as you start doing that you realize
why we have so many problems with our knees, right,
especially if you start running and walking a lot and do a lot
of sports, a lot of activities on your knees and so that's for
robots, and so actually the knee that's one of the most difficult
parts to design in a robot. Of, course, there are many
challenges but at least from a mechanical and power thought
providing point of view the knee is among the most challenging.
THI LE: Interesting. You talk about the usefullness of robots
to humans kind of driving the design, what do human needs kind
of say about robot design?
ALEX LEONESSA: Well, in terms of fields where robots can be
useful, I mean, in general anything where we don't want to
risk human life that would be dangerous for human to intervene
would be desirable. I'll give you an example, firefighting,
right? I mean, if we can have a robot that can go into a
building with blazing flames going through and go there with
a hose and start extinguishing the fire while the fireman
outside directing and giving instruction that would be
desirable. Search and rescue, emergency response and a lot of
other possible ideas, of course, we have robots that can vacuum
your floors and that can cut your grass and so on
and so forth.
THI LE: Kind of shifting from the more physical needs that
robots can help, what about I know there are robots designed
to interact with children so more social needs?
ALEX LEONESSA: Yep, well, social robotics that's the name
it goes by, I mean, it's been around for a while, but in the
last year, perhaps, a couple of years has really sped up. I
mean, there's been a lot of interest in social robotics and
that is exactly what you're talking about how the robot
interacts with a human, right, and how can a robot help,
children with learning, especially, in spite of
potential learning disabilities, interact with children with
autism or other kind of disabilities, cognitive
disabilities for example, but they can also help
rehabilitation, so after you had a surgery or an accident or
something has happened you go back home and, now, there are
robots that can come on with you and can encourage you
and criticize you if you don't enough. I mean,
it's amazing how that area of research has really developed
and has become very useful.
DARWIN: Wow!
THI LE: One of the places where you kind of see robots being
portrayed on the good and bad side, I guess, is in the movies,
do you have a favorite movie robot, good or bad?
ALEX LEONESSA: Short Circuit.
THI LE: Ah, yes, classic.
ALEX LEONESSA: Yes, I love Short Circuit and then, of
course, nowadays if you look at that robot it looks outdated
but it's still a great – it's still a great movie.
THI LE: Do you think that maybe a conscious robot, artificial
intelligence; do you think that might arise as a product of
research for addressing human needs?
ALEX LEONESSA: It's done so much, artificial intelligence,
no, we are making a lot of progress in terms already in the
robot of self-learn from the environment, from interacting
with the environment and we'll definitely see more and more of
that and I'm sure that we will be surprised, so having a
consciousness I don't think – I don't think, frankly, that we're
even trying to do that. I mean, that's not an area that we are
interested in making a robot conscious, but in terms of
learning and being able to interact in a way that
ultimately in many, many years from today would be hard to
distinguish from actually a human being, that is a direction
that we are definitely pursuing.
THI LE: Okay. And kind of looking many, many years from
now, how long before our first robot President?
ALEX LEONESSA: That's yes. Cut. (laughs)
THI LE: And is working with robots still that kind of fun
for you, how is that engagement changing?
ALEX LEONESSA: Yeah, sure. It's fun, it's challenging, it's
frustrating, it's tiring, but if it wasn't fun we wouldn't do it,
right? I mean, it's one of those areas where you get a lot
of disciplines from engineering and, now, even, from social
sciences. Altogether, so it's a perfect learning opportunity for
students. I work with the students from middle school;
I, actually, even elementary school, middle school and high
school all the time and they're always fascinated with what
robots can do and they always ask question on what else he can
do. And so it's a wonderful plot for learning engineering
until, you know, not long ago but now even other areas are
getting like social sciences and we should definitely pursue it
for this kind of activities.
THI LE: So, robots on the soccer field, robots in the work
place, there's probably people that feel that they could help
and work with humans as well as fears of being eventually
replaced by them, what are your thoughts on that?
ALEX LEONESSA: Well, I mean, if you look at some of the
literature from ten-fifteen years ago by today we should
just be home and enjoying our lives and robots should do all
of the work for us, right, and which hasn't happened like that.
But that doesn't mean that robots haven't taken more and
more responsibilities and jobs around the world in general
relieving us from some of those jobs that we don't want to do.
So, the way I see it and this is just my personal opinion is that
by introducing robots in our lives, yes, they do take some
jobs away from us but they create new jobs.
THI LE: Probably important to remember that as robots develop,
humans are still developing and creating new opportunities.
ALEX LEONESSA: Right, skills and the areas of
research and absolutely.
THI LE: So, "Back to the Future" promised us hover
boards in 2015.
ALEX LEONESSA: That's true.
THI LE: In ten years where do you think Darwin will be?
ALEX LEONESSA: In ten years, well, that's, I really need to
pull out my crystal ball for that. Well, I know that 2050
we're going to be playing soccer, right?
THI LE: Right.
ALEX LEONESSA: So, that is what? 35 years from today. In
ten years from today, again, we're going to have robots in
our homes, even before ten years from now we will have cars with
no steering wheel, right? And that is – and that is an area,
for example, that we are even ready today for it but not
socially. I mean, people are not ready to get into a car and have
no driver in it. That doesn't mean we cannot do it but just
that's only that we need to get used to it. I mean, having
refrigerators that remind you that you're out of milk and you
need to go and buy some or, perhaps, even they place the
order online and it gets delivered to your home and you
didn't even know that you were out of milk and all of a sudden
there is fresh, new milk in your fridge. Mail delivery and pizza
delivery, right, there's a lot of talking about that as well.
So, it's going to be something that you go and see around and
you'll realize that there are these robots because you're so
used to it and that is something that we are going to see
in ten years.
THI LE: Sounds like it'll create some leisure time.
I'll start planning my vacation now.
ALEX LEONESSA: Absolutely, yes, you should do that.
THI LE: Well, thank you, Alex, for taking the time to
talk to us –
ALEX LEONESSA: Absolutely.
THI LE: And the folks about robotics here, really appreciate
it. Going to ask you – thank you, Darwin.
ALEX LEONESSA: Hey, Darwin, you ready to go home and play
some more soccer?
DARWIN: High five.
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