- You know, you're coming off ‘The End of the F***ing World’
on Netflix, and you played Winona in 'Pink Skies Ahead,'
what draws you to these young women characters?
- I like playing people that are, like, really flawed.
And I do like playing people that are unlikable.
I actually saw a meme about myself on the internet
and it was like, "Jessica Barden being offered a role
that isn't unlikable," and it's, like,
me slapping shut, like, a phone and I'm like,
"No, decline." And I was, like, "Yeah, but I love that."
I like playing people that are flawed and complicated,
where on the outside, they seem very strong
and on the inside they're vulnerable,
because it's interesting to play.
It probably, definitely is the type of person
that I am deep down, like, whatever,
I'm not a method actor, but I think it's only natural
that we want to play things that we can relate to.
[Jessica] So, 'Pink Skies Ahead' is based on your life,
and it's based on a passage in your book,
'When You Find Out the World is Against You.'
What did it feel like to bring this part of your life
to life? Like, what was it like to direct me,
and to think about it, and, like, relive it all again?
- Writing it was very different from directing it.
I would say when I wrote it, I felt a lot more emotional,
but directing you, I was weirdly able
to, like, separate myself from my own story.
I mean, it isn't fully autobiographical.
Winona's journey with mental health is autobiographical.
You know, from the diagnosis, to dealing with her family
and all of the shame she's -
- Your life wasn't exactly like Winona's.
- It wasn't, yeah, it wasn't exactly.
But when I was writing it, it felt pretty close.
But yeah, on set, there were, like, no moments, you know,
where I felt emotionally the same way
I did when I was writing it.
- 'Cause I'm just bad. No, I'm joking.
[Laughs]
- No.
- "I felt nothing."
- You brought so much of yourself
to the role and you were so strong
in that character that I didn't see myself in it at all,
which is, like, such great work on your part, really.
Did you feel any pressure playing out this character
in front of me since it was, kind of, based on me?
- Yeah, because when you first offered me this role
I was like, "She's made a mistake,
"I'm not that cool." Because, you know, until I met you,
I thought that you were, like, so cool.
I'm joking, like -
[Laughs]
- You were like, "Oh no, she's just a lady."
- No, you are such a cool person, you really are.
And also, like, I had followed you for years,
and you don't understand how cool you are
and, like, how smart you seem
and how comfortable you are in yourself,
and the way that you mix humor
with the things that you talk about is really cool.
And I was just like, "She's made a mistake, like,
"I'm just going to turn up and, like, be a foot."
I don't know.
Yeah, of course. But, I kind of feel
like every director that you ever work
with has chosen the film because
it connected to them in some way.
So, I always feel like I'm working
with a director where they see themselves in the movie.
So, you always have that pressure,
but as much as I'm saying this, like, I felt
like our relationship was very safe and, like, very open,
and there was nothing that I didn't feel
like I could discuss with you, ever.
So, it was also just like the easiest job
that I've ever done, because it was
the easiest relationship that I've ever had
with a director. So, it was scary
until I actually was there doing the job.
And I was like, "Oh right, like, this is just going
"to be great. Like, Kelly is my friend
that I'm going to work with every day."
So, this is your directorial debut.
What about this moment made it seem to you, like,
this is the time to go from being
a writer to being a writer and a director?
- I don't know, whenever I write a script,
I can envision the whole script like a director could,
but I think it felt so much like me and I knew
it was a small movie, just based on the script,
it wasn't going to cost a lot to make.
And I sort of knew that this would be, like, a good in
into the business, since I hadn't directed before.
And I knew nobody was going to just
give a first-time director, like, a $30 million movie,
and I have written those before.
- They don't give $30 million movies,
they have done to men though, like, plenty of guys,
like, came straight out and, like, made crazy movies.
- So crazy, imagine that lifestyle.
But yeah, that's why, I mean, that's why
I wanted to make this one. It was so personal, mostly
because it was such a mental health journey
and it was my mental health journey.
It would have felt weird putting that in somebody
else's hands that, like,
hadn't felt those things that I felt.
- So, obviously this movie explores mental health, which is,
like, a very serious subject, but also there's a lot
of funny moments in this, and there's a lot
of humorous parts of Winona. Like, why was that so important
for you to mix together in this movie?
- I think it's just because that's life,
like, if you have a mental condition,
like, you're not always going to be,
like, in the mental condition state of mind.
I just wanted to portray real life
for people with mental conditions, which is you can be,
you know, a leader, you can be outgoing, you can be all
of these things, you know, and have a mental condition.
And I think that a lot of characters
in past films have been, you know,
portrayed as like a one-note mental condition.
If they're depressed, they're just depressed.
And if they have OCD, they're just washing their hands
and counting things. And I wanted
to show, like, a real journey that includes
all of the joy and happiness along with all
of the confusion and pain that goes with it.
- Obviously we have anxiety, and I feel like
within our friendship, the way that we discuss our anxiety,
we spend a lot of time laughing
at the weirdness of our life.
My therapist always reminds me that that's important,
but also it's just as important to say that you can't just
be like, "Oh, I've got depression.
"Like, I'm going to wake up tomorrow
"and I'm going to start laughing
at everything." Because, like, that, it's not OK.
Like, it takes work.
- What message do you hope
this movie will send to young people,
especially young people who might feel lost?
- OK, well I think that, like,
all young people feel, like, really lost right now.
I think that, like, obviously before the pandemic,
this movie was always going to be important
because I feel like we are at some, kind
of, like, a crossroads where we can actually,
like, change the way that their life is going to be
because they feel so much more open to, like, learning.
Like, they want to be, like, really great people
in a way that I don't think really existed before.
They want to talk to people about mental illness.
They just want it to be, like, a safe place for everyone,
and the pandemic happened and I feel like young people,
and we talk about this all the time,
but they are, like, really going through a bad time.
Their generation is really dealing
with this completely differently than everybody else
because their lives have genuinely completely stopped.
They are trapped at home, and this movie I think is
so important right now for them
because I think that so many people
from that generation have anxiety anyway.
This movie is so important for that generation.
Kelly knows more about it than I do.
- I totally agree with you. I hope
that kids and young adults, you know,
with the ending of the movie, find, like,
hope and inspiration for themselves,
even if they're in the same sort
of terrible Myers of like anxiety and panic attacks.
I really hope that Winona's journey, you know,
this little part of her journey and,
like, finding therapy and opening up to her family,
I really hope that kids who watch it feel some hope
about their future with the ending
of the movie and that things are going to be OK.