TIGHT-KNIT COMMUNITY ON ALERT. GABE GUTIERREZ, NBC NEWS,
COVINGTON, KENTUCKY.
COVINGTON, KENTUCKY. >> NATHAN PHILLIPS IS WITH US
NOW.
NOW. MR. PHILLIPS, GOOD MORNING TO
YOU.
YOU. >> GOOD MORNING.
>> FIRST OF ALL, FIRST QUESTION,
HOW ARE YOU DOING?
THIS HAS BEEN A WHIRLWIND FEW
DAYS FOR YOU.
YOU FIND YOURSELF ON THE FRONT
PAGE OF EVERY NEWSPAPER.
HOW ARE YOU DOING, AND HOW ARE
YOU FEELING?
YOU FEELING? >> WELL, I WOKE UP STRONG THIS
MORNING, WITH A VERY POSITIVE
ATTITUDE.
ATTITUDE. I HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO GO TO A
TRADITIONAL PRAYER CEREMONY.
THAT WAS THE OTHER NIGHT.
YESTERDAY, I WOKE UP WITH ALL
KINDS OF GOOD FEELINGS IN MY
HEART.
HEART. FOR ALL THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN MEAN
TO ME, WANT TO FORGIVE THEM.
>> I BELIEVE YOU’VE HAD A CHANCE
TO SEE THE INTERVIEW THAT THE
STUDENT AT THE CENTER OF THIS
GAVE.
GAVE. WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION?
WHAT DID YOU THINK OF WHAT HE
HAD TO SAY ABOUT THIS ENCOUNTER?
>> I WAS UPSET I WAS MADE TO SIT
DOWN AND WATCH IT.
>> WHY IS THAT?
>> I READ HIS STATEMENT.
WHEN I GOT INTO THE FIRST --
WELL, SOMEBODY TRIED TO SHOW IT
TO ME BEFORE I WENT TO MY PRAYER
CEREMONY.
CEREMONY. I GOT INTO ABOUT THE FIRST 30
SECONDS, 40 SECONDS OF IT, AND I
SAID, WELL, THAT’S ALL I NEEDED
TO HEAR.
TO HEAR. >> WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO IT?
HOW DID IT MAKE YOU FEEL?
WHAT DID YOU THINK ABOUT HIS
WORDS AND HIS EXPLANATION AND
HIS VERSION OF THIS ENCOUNTER?
>> COACHED AND WRITTEN UP FOR
HIM, INSINCERITY, LACK OF
RESPONSIBILITY.
RESPONSIBILITY. YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE THE WORDS
THAT I CAME UP WITH.
BUT THEN I WENT TO GO PRAY ABOUT
IT, AND I WOKE UP WITH THIS
FORGIVING HEART.
FORGIVING HEART. SO I FORGIVE HIM.
>> HE SAID, WHEN I ASKED
DIRECTLY, THAT HE DIDN’T THINK
HE OWED AN APOLOGY, BUT HE DOES
WISH THAT HE HAD WALKED AWAY.
WAS THAT ENOUGH FOR YOU, OR DO
YOU THINK HE SHOULD HAVE
APOLOGIZED?
APOLOGIZED? >> WELL, AN APOLOGY, THERE’D BE
AN APOLOGY FOR HIS OWN BEHAVIOR
TO A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE BESIDES
ME.
ME. I’D BE, LIKE, WAY DOWN ON THE
LIST OF PEOPLE HE NEEDS TO
APOLOGIZE TO.
APOLOGIZE TO. BECAUSE OF THE TOMAHAWK CHOP,
THE MOCKING, THOSE THINGS.
ONE OF HIS STATEMENTS, HE DID
SAY THAT HE WAS THE LEADER OF
THAT.
THAT. HE GOT PERMISSION FROM HIS
SCHOOLTEACHERS.
SCHOOLTEACHERS. YOU KNOW, THERE’S -- THERE’S A
LOT OF TIMES HE COULD HAVE
WALKED AWAY.
WALKED AWAY. >> DID YOU HEAR ANYONE SAY,
BUILD THAT WALL?
IT ISN’T AUDIBLE ON THE VIDEO
CLIPS, I THINK, THAT ARE OUT
THERE, BUT DID YOU HEAR THAT?
>> YOU KNOW, I DID HEAR THAT.
I HAVE SEEN SOME OUT THERE ON
THE -- ON THE INTERNET, WHERE --
YOU CAN HEAR "BUILD THAT WALL."
>> HOW DID YOU FEEL IN THAT
MOMENT?
MOMENT? DID YOU, YOURSELF, FEEL
THREATENED?
THREATENED? >> WELL, ALL THAT ANGER WAS
DIRECTED AT THOSE FOUR
INDIVIDUALS, THE BLACK
ISRAELITES AND THE YOUTH THERE.
IT WAS GETTING REALLY EXPLOSIVE.
SO WHEN WE WERE -- WHEN I
STARTED PRAYING I ASKED, CREATOR
GOD, PROTECT ME, TO STAND WITH
ME.
ME. I WAS JUST TO WITNESS WHAT WAS
HAPPENING.
HAPPENING. I PUT MYSELF IN PRAYER AND USED
THAT DRUM TO -- TO REACH TO GOD.
THAT MASS OF YOUNG MEN
SURROUNDED ME, AND THE FOLKS
THAT WERE WITH ME.
IT WAS A MOMENT TO -- WHEN I WAS
IN PRAYER, IT WASN’T THAT I FELT
LIKE I COULD STOP ANYTHING OR DO
ANYTHING
ANYTHING ANYTHING, BUT I FELT LIKE I WAS
SPIRITUALITY MOVED INTO THAT
CENTER, INTO THAT CENTER OF THAT
WHIRLWIND, AS YOU WERE SAYING.
>> I ASKED THE YOUNG MAN THIS
QUESTION.
QUESTION. I’LL ASK YOU THE SAME THING.
DO YOU THINK, IN THAT
CONFRONTATION, THAT ENCOUNTER
THAT WENT ON AND ON, SHOULD YOU
HAVE WALKED AWAY?
HE SAID, YES, HE THINKS NOW HE
SHOULD HAVE WALKED AWAY.
DO YOU THINK, SIR, YOU SHOULD
HAVE WALKED AWAY?
>> THAT’S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO
DO.
DO. I WAS TRYING TO WALK AWAY.
THERE WAS A SPOT, A PLACE WHERE
I COULD TAKE MY PEOPLE.
WE WERE SURROUNDED.
WE COULDN’T GO RIGHT.
WE COULDN’T GO LEFT, BACK, YOU
KNOW.
KNOW. THEN I WAS STILL IN PRAYER,
STILL SINGING, THEN I WAS
LOOKING PAST THE CROWD.
I TOOK THAT FIRST STEP, AND THAT
CROWD PACKBACKED UP.
I TOOK A SECOND STEP, AND THE
CROWD STARTED SCATTERING OR
BREAKING APART THERE.
I TOOK A THIRD, AND I ACTUALLY
SEEN A CLEAR SPACE.
I SAID, THAT’S THE SPACE.
WE STARTED GOING THAT WAY.
FROM SOMEWHERE, FROM A CLEAR
SPACE, A PERSON WAS THERE.
>> YOU FEEL YOU WERE BLOCKED?
>> OH, I WAS BLOCKED.
>> THERE HAS ALSO BEEN SOME
QUESTION ABOUT THE NATURE OF
YOUR MILITARY SERVICE, AND THIS
IS A GOOD CHANCE TO CLEAR IT UP.
YOU WERE A VETERAN.
YOU SERVED IN THE MARINE CORPS.
SOME HAVE SAID THAT YOU WERE A
VIETNAM VETERAN.
VIETNAM VETERAN. I DON’T BELIEVE YOU HAVE SAID
THAT.
THAT. WHAT EXACTLY IS THE NATURE OF
YOUR SERVICE?
YOUR SERVICE? >> I WENT TO BOOT CAMP.
I STAYED THERE.
THAT MARINE CORPS WAS A
RESERVIST GUY.
RESERVIST GUY. I STAYED IN THE RESERVES FOR A
COUPLE YEARS.
COUPLE YEARS. THAT WAS DURING THE TIME OF THE
AMERICAN-INDIAN MOVEMENT, THE
TRIALS.
TRIALS. THERE WERE A LOT OF THINGS GOING
ON DURING THOSE YEARS.
THE VIETNAM WAR WAS STILL GOING
ON.
ON. >> SO, TO BE CLEAR, YOU SERVED
IN THE MARINES AT THE TIME THAT
VIETNAM WAS GOING ON, BUT YOU
DID NOT SERVE OVERSEAS?
>> WHAT I’VE ALWAYS SAID IS I’VE
NEVER STEPPED FOOT IN SOUTH
VIETNAM.
VIETNAM. THAT’S -- I DON’T KNOW HOW
CLEAR -- HOW MUCH CLEARER CAN
THAT BE, YOU KNOW?
EVER SINCE I GOT OUT -- WHEN I
GOT OUT -- WHEN I WAS DISCHARGED
MAY 5th, 1976, I WAS TOLD WHEN I
GOT OUT, DON’T WEAR YOUR
UNIFORM.
UNIFORM. DON’T SAY YOU’RE A VETERAN.
PEOPLE DON’T LIKE YOU OUT THERE.
>> FINALLY, I WONDER WHAT YOU
FEEL NOW.
FEEL NOW. WHAT DO YOU HOPE HAPPENS NOW?
WOULD YOU WANT TO MEET WITH
THESE STUDENTS?
THESE STUDENTS? WHAT ARE YOU HOPING COMES OF
THIS MOMENT IN OUR CULTURE?
>> I FIND MYSELF HAVING TO, EVEN
THOUGH I’M ANGRY, I STILL HAVE
THAT FORGIVENESS IN MY HEART FOR
THOSE STUDENTS.
THOSE STUDENTS. THAT FORGIVENESS EVEN GOES TO
THOSE CHAPERONES AND THOSE
TEACHERS, WHO SHOULD HAVE -- WHO
SHOULD HAVE JUST SAID, YOU
STUDENTS, THIS ISN’T THE PLACE.
TO TALK WITH THEM NOW, THE
STATEMENT, AND I DID HEAR THE
STATEMENT THAT HE WROTE, THE
VIDEO STATEMENT HE PUT OUT.
WHAT I’M LED -- WHAT IT SAYS IS
HE HAS A PR FIRM.
THOSE AREN’T EVEN HIS WORDS, IF
HE HAS A PR FIRM.
YOU KNOW?
YOU KNOW? SOME SINCERITY, SOME SENSE OF
RESPONSIBILITY FOR HIS ACTIONS.
YOU KNOW, THESE ARE SOME OF THE
THINGS THAT, IF WE EVER DID
MEET, IT WOULD BE THOSE ADULTS I
WOULD LIKE TO ASK, WHY DIDN’T --
THE SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS THERE,
ASK THEM, WHY DIDN’T THEY SAY
NO?
NO? >> HAVE YOU FEARED FOR YOUR
SAFETY SINCE ALL OF THIS HAS
HAPPENED?
HAPPENED? THE STUDENTS HAVE RECEIVED DEATH
THREATS.
THREATS. HAVE YOU FEARED FOR YOUR OWN
SAFETY?
SAFETY? >> YOU KNOW, I DIDN’T HAVE ANY
PROBLEMS UNTIL THE STUDENTS
STARTED SAYING THEY WERE GETTING
DEATH THREATS.
DEATH THREATS. AS SOON AS THAT HAPPENED, IT
STARTED HAPPENING WITH ME.
>> MR. PHILLIPS, YOU CERTAINLY
HAVE BEEN THROUGH A LOT IN THESE
LAST FEW DAYS.
THANK YOU, MR. PHILLIPS, FOR
SPENDING THIS TIME WITH US AND