>>> ITS FAIR TO SAY THE
TECHNICAL LEGAL TERM FOR HOW THE
MUELLER TEAM APPEARS TO BE
FEELING IS PISSED.
THERES SOMETHING DEEPLY WRONG
ABOUT RELEASING A CLEARING
DOCUMENT IN A COUPLE PAGES, AND
THEN NOT PROVIDES ANY OF THE
OTHER INFORMATION.
YOU CAN GO TO A COURT AND GET
PERMISSION FOR THE GRAND JURY
MATERIAL TO BE GIVEN TO
CONGRESS.
ITS EASY TO DO.
WITHIN 48 HOURS, BARR FELT
PERFECTLY COMFORTABLE ACTING IN
A HURRY FOR CLEAR PRESIDENT
TRUMP.
SO, YOU KNOW, ITS A REAL
MISMATCH HERE.
IT REALLY DOES FEED THIS IDEA
THAT BARR IS THE PRESIDENTS
GUY, NOT THE PEOPLES GUY.
>>> HERE WE ARE, MORE THAN TWO
YEARS AFTER OUR FRIEND NEIL
KATYA, WHO IS THE ONLY PERSON
WHO THINKING HE SAYS ON LIVE TV
ACTUALLY SOUNDS BETTER TWO YEARS
LATER, RAISES SUSPICIONS ABOUT
BILL BARR.
TODAY CONFIRMATION FROM THE
AMERICAN JUSTICE SYSTEM WE ARE
PRESCIENT.
JUDGE JACKSON ADMONISHING BILL
BARR FOR HIS DISINGENUOUS
FINDINGS.
>>> JOINING OUR CONVERSATION IS
NEAL KATYA, FORMER SOLICITOR
GENERAL, AND OUR "THE WASHINGTON
POST" NATIONAL REPORTER, LUCKY
FOR US BOTH MSNBC CONTRIBUTORS.
>> NEAL, PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF
SEEM TO INTUITIVE KNOW WHATS
GOING ON.
WHY DOES IT TAKE SO LONG FOR
SORT OF THE GRINDING OF THE
WHEELS TO MAKE PUBLIC WHAT IS, I
GUESS, WAS TO YOU OBVIOUS AT THE
TIME THAT BARR WAS LIEIC WHEN HE
CAME OUT AND MISREPRESENTED 234
MUELLERS CONCLUSIONS, AND WELL
NEVER NOW THE POLITICAL DAMAGE
THOSE LIES DID TO THE COUNTRY
AND HIS VOTERS.
>> NICOLLE, I DONT THINK -- IM
NOT SITTING HERE FEELING GOOD
ABOUT THE FACT THAT I AND SO
MANY OTHERS WERE RIGHT TWO YEARS
AGO.
I DESPERATELY WANTED TO BE
WRONG.
OUR SYSTEM IS SET UP TO TRUST
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.
BARR WAS ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE
UNITED STATES.
NOT THE ATTORNEY GENERALLY FOR
PRESIDENT TRUMP.
HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR THE
PEOPLE.
UNFORTUNATELY, THERE WAS ALWAYS
A DEGREE OF CORRUPTION AROUND
HIM.
HE CONSTANTLY ACTED LIKE ONE OF
DONALD TRUMPS PERSONAL
ATTORNEYS.
NOW, WITH THE NEW DECISION BY
THE JUDGE INTO HIS DECEPTION,
HES FINALLY BEING TREATED LIKE
ONE OF THE GANG, WHICH HE ALWAYS
WAS.
YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT.
ITS NOT THE INTERIOR DEPARTMENT
OR SOME OTHER PLACE THATS BEEN
HISTORICALLY PLAGUED BY SCANNED
ALWAYS.
THIS IS THE CROWN JEWEL OF OUR
DEMOCRACY.
ITS A PLACE THATS HISTORICALLY
RUN IN THE PEOPLES INTERESTS,
NOT IN THE INTERESTS OF THE
PRESIDENT.
WHAT YOU HAVE IN THIS DECISION
BY THE JUDGE AMY JACKSON, WHO IS
A METICULOUS JUDGE, IS A
STATEMENT THAT, NO, BARR
ACTUALLY LIED TO THE COURT AND
TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
SHE CALLED BARRS ACTIONS IN THE
LITIGATING POSITION
DISINGENUOUS, WHICH IS SOMETHING
YOU ALMOST NEVER HEAR A FEDERAL
JUDGE SAY ABOUT ANY LITIGANT,
PARTICULARLY NOT SOMEONE FROM
THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT, AND
PARTICULARLY NOT THE ATTORNEY
GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES.
IF A FEDERAL JUDGE CALLS YOUR
TESTIMONY BEFORE THE CONGRESS
DISINGENUOUS, AS SHE DID, I
THINK ITS TIME TO START
RETAINING LEGAL COUNSEL, AND
IDEALLY SOMEONE WHO CAN SAVE
WHATEVER IS LEFT OF THAT
TATTERED REPUTATION THAT YOU
HAVE.
>> LET ME PRESS YOU THERE.
WHAT DOES BILL BARR NEED LEGAL
COUNSEL FOR?
WHO COULD TRY TO HOLD HIM
ACCOUNTABLE LEGALLY?
>> WELL, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THIS
IS TRUE ABOUT EVERY ATTORNEY WHO
SURROUNDED THEMSELVES WITH
DONALD TRUMP.
THEY RUN INTO CRIMINAL
LIABILITY.
YOU SEE IT -- YOU KNOW, WELL
TALK ABOUT GIULIANI A BIT LATER.
YOU SEE IT TIME AND AGAIN,
MICHAEL COHEN, ALL THESE OTHER
PEOPLE.
JUDGE JACKSON IS SAYING IN THIS
OPINION, BARR, YOU TESTIFIED
BEFORE CONGRESS, YOUR TESTIMONY
BEFORE CONGRESS WAS THAT YOU HAD
MADE THESE DECISION.
NOW IT LOOKS LIKE YOU DIDNT
ACTUALLY MAKE THESE DECISIONS,
AND THIS MATERIAL YOURE TRY TO
GO PREVENT FROM THE AMERICAN
PEOPLE FROM SEEING YOU CLAIMED
WAS SHIELDED BECAUSE YOU HADNT
MADE THE DECISIONS AT THE TIME,
BUT IT LOOKS LIKE YOU DID.
SO THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY OF A
CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION INTO BILL
BARR NOW.
THERES ALSO THE POSSIBILITY OF
CIVIL AND DISCIPLINARY ACTIONS
AGAINST HIM AS WELL.
I MEAN, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OF
THE UNITED STATES IS SUPPOSED TO
BE ABOVE REPROACH. HERE YOU HAVE THE TOP LAWYER FOR
HERE YOU HAVE THE TOP LAWYER FOR
THE ENTIRE GOVERNMENTS, YOU
KNOW, BIG ACCUSED OF BEING
DISINGENUOUS BY AN INCREDIBLY
WELL-RESPECTED JUDGE IN D.C.
BEFORE -- THIS IS THE THIRD
JUDGE.
>> YEAH.
AND JUDGE SULLIVAN, TOO.
>> CAROL, THAT IS REALLY THE
EXTRAORDINARY PIECE OF THIS,
THAT THIS WASNT THE FIRST TIME
OR SECOND TIME, THIS WAS THE
THIRD TIME BILL BARR WAS REBUKED
BY A FEDERAL JUDGE.
I WONDER IF YOU CAN JUST WIDEN
THE LICENSE A BIT.
I REMEMBER WHEN BILL BARR, YOU
KNOW, WAS JUST A COLONEL IN THE
TRUMP TWITTER FEED AND RICH.
THERE WAS EVEN A SCHOOL OF
THOUGHT THAT HE MIGHT LAND ON
SORT OF THE THINKING
RIGHT-WINGER SIDE MUCH THE
LEDGERS, LIKE A TERWILLIGER SORT
OF FIGURE.
THEN THERE WERE A FEW, NO, THIS
IS -- HE LANDED SQUARELY ON THE,
YOU KNOW, TALK RADIO KIND OF
LEGAL IMPULSES AND POLITICAL
IMPULSES, JUST BLANKET LOYALTY
TO DONALD TRUMP.
I WONDER IF YOU THINK STORIES
LIKE THIS, AND SORT OF THIS SLOW
U
EMERGING PICTURE WILL GET WORSE,
OR DO YOU THINK WE KNOW MOST OF
WHAT HAPPENED?
>> I THINK YOU ASKED ABOUT THE
LAST PART OF THAT.
I THINK THE MOST INTERESTING
THING ABOUT THIS IS WHAT WE
DONT KNOW.
AMY BERMAN JACKSON REVEALED AS
MUCH AS SHE COULD OF A DOCUMENT
THATS CURRENTLY SEALED, HIGHLY
REDACTED.
AND SHE GAVE US THOSE CLUES, BUT
ILL GET TO THAT IN A MINUTE.
EVERYBODY SHOULD KIND OF
REMEMBER THAT ATTORNEY GENERAL
BIG BARR WAS, WHEN HE FIRST
ARRIVED, VIEWED AS THIS
EMINENCE, A PERSON OF
SERIOUSNESS AND GRAVITAS.
PEOPLE WERE ELATED THAT THE
ATTORNEY GENERAL THAT
DONALD TRUMP HAD GOTTEN FED UP
WITH WAS GOING TO BE REPLACED BY
SOMEBODY AS SERIOUS AS BILL
BARR.
HOWEVER, HE DID END UP LOOKING
OFTEN AS IF HE WAS ESSENTIALLY
DOING THE PRESIDENTS BIDDING.
I THINK WHAT PEOPLE
MISUNDERSTOOD ABOUT BIG BARR IN
THE FIRST MOVEMENT IS BECAUSE HE
HAD BEEN ATTORNEY GENERAL
BEFORE, HE WOULD BE VESTED WITH
ALL OF THE SAME FEELINGS THAT,
FOR EXAMPLE, NEAL KATYA AND ALL
THE MY SOURCES FEEL, THAT
JUSTICE IS ALWAYS BLIND, JUSTICE
IS ALWAYS OBJECTIVE.
WHAT PEOPLE UNDERSTOOD IS BILL
BARR IS A POLITICAL IDEOLOGUE, A
POLITICAL STREET FIGHTER.
HE FELT STRONG THAT THE MUELLER
INVESTIGATION WAS BUNK, THAT IT
WAS A PROCESS VIOLATION
ESSENTIALLY.
HE GOT TO DEFINE WHAT THEY
FOUND.
HE ESSENTIALLY DECIDED THEY
DIDNT FIND VERY MUCH.
THE TRUTH IS THEY FOUND PLENTY.
HERES THE LAST PART, IF YOU
DONT MIND, NICOLLE, AMY BERMAN
JACKSON HAS THIS GREAT POINT IN
HER RULING, IN WHICH THAT SHES
ESSENTIALLY DESCRIBING THIS 2019
MEMO THAT BILL BARR AND HIS TEAM
SAID THEY SHOULD NEVER REVEALS
A POST-HOC VALUATION.
WHAT WAS GOING ON?
WHY WAS THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT
POINTING TO THIS DOCUMENT IN
2019 AS SO IMPORTANT AND
DELIBERATIVE THAT IT COULD NEVER
BE SHARED, IF INDEED IT WAS JUST
A RATIONALIZATION AFTER THE
FACT?
WHAT IS GOING ON IN THOSE
DELIBERATIONS?
WHAT IS POSSIBLY SORT OF BEHIND
THAT FIGURE LEAF?
NOT JUST THE DOCUMENT BUT ALL
THE OTHER DOCUMENTS WE HAVE NOT
YESTERDAY BEEN ABLE TO SEE?
IM SERAL PULLING OUT THE
ROLODEX TO FIGURE IT OUT.
>> NEAL, DO WE WANT TO VENTURE A
GUESS?
>> IM NOT GOING TO VENTURE TO
GUESS.
WE KNOW THAT JUDGE JACKSON HAS
ACTUALLY READ THE DOCUMENT
HERSELF, AND HER OPINION WAS
INFORMED BY IT.
THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT RESISTED
THAT, BUT SHE WAS ABLE TO READ
IT.
I THINK TIME WILL TELL.