Millions of Uyghur Muslims in Xinjiang
have been put in Chinese Concentration Camps
While the international community debates
Welcome to China Uncensored, I’m Chris Chappell.
Is what the Chinese Communist Party doing to the Uyghurs genocide?
Sure, they’re being put in massive concentration camps.
And chained, shaved Uyghurs being rounded up onto trains sure looks bad.
And of course independent reports confirm it’s genocide.
The problem is, there’s a lot of money to be made in China! Just look at its bond market!
This is why you get companies like Apple and Nike lobbying against the Uyghur Forced Labor Act.
It’s hard to carry on normal relations with a country committing genocide.
And so many Western democracies that say they stand for human rights, are waffling about
whether to label what the Chinese Communist Party is doing to Uyghurs as genocide.
The Trump Administration labeled it genocide. But now the Biden administration
is reviewing that decision.
Canada’s parliament also labeled it genocide.
But Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and his cabinet didn’t want to.
Australia and Turkey have rejected the genocide label.
I mean, just because what the Chinese Communist Party is doing to the Uyghurs
is evil, doesn’t mean it’s that bad, right? We can still do business with them.
Which is why today I’m having on Uyghur writer, linguist and activist Abduweli
Ayup to talk about what it was like for him inside one of these Chinese concentration camps.
Thanks for joining me today.
Thank you for having me.
So, for some reason, there's an international debate going on about whether what the Chinese
Communist Party is doing to the Uyghurs genocide. Now, you have firsthand experience
with what is happening to the Uyghurs. How did you end up in a concentration camp?
It is because of I had the Uyghur mother language kindergarten,
and the because of this, China put me in the prison.
You are, so you were put in a concentration camp because you tried to start a kindergarten.
Yes, it's because of we are Uyghur, and I'm willing to have
my Uyghur kindergarten for Uyghur kids.
To save your language.
To save, to preserve their language.
So, what happened to you once you were inside the concentration camp?
When I was inside the concentration camp, first of all (silence)
rape, it happened, and then
torture: electric, electricize, electric with the electric stick, electricize it and indoctrination
with propaganda against Uyghur culture, and against Uyghur identity and against human dignity.
And this, this is basically how all the Uyghurs are treated in these camps.
It doesn't matter if they try to cooperate or not.
It's all Uyghurs are experiencing like this in the concentration camp.
It doesn't matter, you are cooperating or not. There is less or more, heavier or lighter,
but it's happening through every Uyghur who are in concentration camp right now.
How do you have heavier or lighter rape?
Lighter is the ones happened only once, like me. And heavier is the one who happened repeatedly.
And lighter is the one happened only once or twice. But the heavier one is for a long
time with different position. And mainly aim is just ruin your dignity. Just ask others that,
just ask other prisoners, other camps detainees that. Yes, this is the step you're willing to
have if you are not cooperate with us. If you are not lose your dignity, lose your identity,
lose your culture. This is the ending; this is the like challenge you will have.
Oh, God. So what happens to the family members outside the camps?
The main problem is for them because they don't know what happened to them. The like I stayed
there in 15 months, and my family members that don't know they are a mind and what am I doing?
Am I alive or not? This kind of like it is very hard when you think that like at the time I asked
the interrogator that yes, sentence me 10 years, 15 years it's okay. But tell me when then I will,
I will see my parents. When I will see my family members. When I will see my daughter and my wife.
Like there's no this kind of exact date. There is no like exact, exact like saying that, yes, you
are this. And you will have this in this amount of time. There's no this kind of like, like.
There's no rule of law.
There, there's like a main thing is there is no logic.
There is no specific rule you need to follow.
And again, this happened to you because you tried to start a Uyghur language kindergarten.
Yes, it's because of I'm going to have a kindergarten in Ürümqi.
I had my kindergarten in Kashgar.
Did they, did they charge you with anything?
I can't imagine them charging you with trying to run a kindergarten.
First of all, they charged me as a separate test and then charge me as a, like a
CIA agent and then. Oh yeah, I forgot that, and then the religious extremist,
because of I asked the food, it is halal or not, just 1 question. It's not it's halal or not.
And then like charge me as a extremist, but that then. I haven't accepted any accusation,
and at the end, they charged me economic crime. It means that illegal fundraising for kindergarten.
How did you get through it?
Oh, because of my (silence) my strongness, I will not admit anything. I wouldn't admit
anything. I wouldn't admit any crime. I wouldn't accept any accusation. I said I'm innocent.
Actually, I'm innocent, and like they interrogated me 6 months and torture me 6 months.
And as I told you, first 3 months, it's horrible. It's really bad. But after 3 months,
I get your strick that electric and electricizing or like torching or hanging me up or beating and
like get your strick. And I try to keep my stance. I keep my, I try to keep my dignity, and it works
at the end. Like yes, I'm the one I will never obey. I will never say yes, I will never admit.
How do you get used to something like that?
You have to because, in that circumstances, there's 2 ways. One, keep your dignity and keep
your stance; another is follow the instruction. If I follow the instruction, I know what will
happen. It's life in prison. And it's like a terrorism or extremism or separatism. Man,
because of I admitted that because of I supported by a 4th Foundation, Chinese Government accused
me as a, like a CIA agent. If I accept that, yes, I have done this, and I need to say more,
and I need to create something. I need to make up something, what they have done.
And if I say yes to a accusation of separatism, I will say something more.
And if I say like, say yes for a religious extremism, I will say that I will say,
do something more. I just, during the interrogation, I said that I gave lecture
more than 2000 students and they will upset and they will not happy for this interrogation.
If they know this, I'm think write it down that (silence)
optimally created, train it 2000 terrorist, and then the next day it came to me that you said you
trained the 2000 terrorists? No, I never said that. I said I gave lecture to 2000 students.
What you said that? No. I haven't let me to sign under the, under the,
under the paper. I said no, because I said students, not terrorist. I haven't trained
anything, anyone to do something. I just gave a lecture. I just gave a lecture to them. Look, if
I signed, but at the bottom, that yes. Yeah, that will be ending. And then I will be the terrorist.
Yeah. It just, it, to me, it sums up the communist party perfectly. They, they
try to start a kindergarten. They put you in a concentration camp. So you've been trying to
raise awareness about the genocide of Uyghur's. What do you think of the international response?
I think that first of all, we have this recognition from US Government,
and the Canadian Parliament, and the Netherlands Parliament. It's good. First of all, the,
the recognition is very important, and second, we need international action,
and we need international support. I hope we will have in the future, and the first of all,
this recognition, this genocide, this recognition is important. And second, and if it
work, if it works, if it will like effect, it depends on how are we honest and how are we
integrate and how are we take the real action? It's that step I'm waiting for.
Why do you think some people, some Governments are resistant to calling it a genocide?
I think it's mainly because of a money issue. It's a trade deal,
and China is the second largest economy in the world, and the international supply chain
are working right now. And the China played an important role in this international supply chain.
And the international businessmen door is national company like Apple, like Nike. They don't want to
cut this international split supply chain. But we cannot
ignore and the weak, like a for example, that it's okay to their
shoes from some companies, and it's okay to not to wear Nike shoes. But it's not okay to
ignore humanitarian tragedy happening there; ignore genocide is commenting there.
Yeah. I think the issue is if you call, once you say China is a country committing genocide,
you can't have international businesses doing business with China. You can have the president
of the United States shaking hands with the leader of a country committing genocide.
Yes, of course. Like if we, for example, that the US Government recognize Chinese Government,
they commit, committing genocide. And at the end, shake hand with the like criminals it means
that it is a genocide. The Chinese Government is committing the genocide. It means that they are
not the normal state and not the normal party. They are group of criminals, and how do you shake
hand with the criminals and how do, how do you do business with the criminals and how do you have a
normal diplomacy with the, with the criminals? And we have like, criminal should be in prison,
should be in the court. Not, not should be in the court, not be in the prison right now because it
has all of the criminal like genocide. If you are discussing with the genocide. Yes,
it's okay with the debate, and the way the like talk and with the, it's okay, but all that the
claim that this is a genocide and then talk about business and something else. It's not honest.
Yeah.
It's not integrity.
Yeah. Maybe Disney couldn't film Mulan and Xinjiang,
and thank the Public security bureau there. That's involved in the genocide of your people.
Yes, of course; first of all, Disney shouldn't feel very close. Shouldn't feel
the place very close to concentration camp, a few kilometers away. The second, they shouldn't thank
the, the Public security who are implementing this genocide right now. And the third,
they should know what they are doing. They claim openly that like thank Public security bureau or
something like that. It, it means that some international company, they don't care. They
don't care our audience. They don't care their customers. They don't respect their customers.
Yeah, and I can definitely say this episode is non-sponsored by Disney+ or Nike.
Yeah.
And for anyone watching, who
wants to do something about this evil that's being committed, what do you have a message for them?
We should know what we are eating. Is it related to Chinese Forced Labor? We
should know what we are wearing. Is it related to China Forced Labor? And then we spent our money.
Is it related to supply chain connected to Chinese Forced Labor? Now, I can say that
it is a big economy and the Uyghur Forced Labor is everywhere; not only in our hometown and every
Chinese provinces, we have Uyghur Forced Labor. So, it's impossible to say that this, this product
related to forced labor; this product is not actually all related together; they are connected.
So, we should think that what we are buying. It means that we are feeding the Chinese
atrocity and we are supporting Chinese Government committing suicide. So, we need to be aware of it.
A 100% agree. Thanks for joining us, and thank you for keeping up this good fight.
Thank you for having me, and thank you for make Uyghur arranges.
And if you’d like to hear more from Abduweli Ayup, check out the interview
we did with him on the China Unscripted Podcast. I’ll put a link to that below.
Thanks for watching. It’s important people learn about what’s happening inside China.
So be sure to tell your friends and family. Once again I’m Chris Chappell. See you next time.