WOLFF: Did it matter to the left in these debates
who quote-unquote started the war? Was this an issue that made any difference?
MUSTO: That's interesting because actually this debate that we are having today- who started
war, the just war, war of defense- is something that has been debated,
again not only in theory but, concretely in very dramatic historical circumstances by the left.
I will bring the example of the most important French socialist leader at the time Jean Jaurès.
In 1911, he wrote an important book in which he was in favor of this defensive war, and the case
was the defense from somebody that started the war. So, it is very similar to the case that we
are debating today with Russia and Ukraine. But actually once again Rosa Luxembourg was
very brilliant in their critical analysis of this position. Rosa Luxembourg wrote that it is
not easy to say who really started the war, and if there are stratagems adopted by
a country to make another country start a war. So, you cannot measure with the [?] of justice
or through a scheme of defense and aggression about these things of war. And there is another
woman (wonderful that this is coming from two women and wonderful as I mentioned before that
the struggle against militarism was essential for the struggle against patriarchy), the other
person is Simon Weil: Reflection on War in 1933. A very small but brilliant contribution article that
she wrote. She's going against this ideology of violence, and she wrote that no matter what name
it may take, fascism, liberalism, dictatorship of the proletariat- the principal enemy is the
administrative policy and military apparatus. And war is of course the biggest moment in which
this apparatus is growing and taking more power on self-emancipation of workers and citizens.
WOLFF: How do you understand what the left is doing in relationship to the Ukraine war,
and what is your own view as to what the left's position ought to be?
MUSTO: I will say that there are mainly three positions. The first one is a position with
which I don't agree. There is a position of not condemning very clearly Russia.
There is this idea: United States have done the same, or they will have responded in the same
way if they were at risk of its security. But in my opinion, this kind of position will make
difficult to denounce later possible future acts of aggression committed by anybody. And Lenin
himself is in favor of self-determination. And why [should you] suggest that anything different
and give this to the nationalist government of Putin? But there is a second position that is
also very dangerous and it's the position of the left including in the radical left that is
becoming directly or indirectly co-belligerents. We have seen this many times in the past years:
in Italy supporting the war of Kosovo or today with Podemos in Spain, or the Left Alliance in
Finland. They are all clapping their hands to this military's discourse that Zelensky
is doing in many European parliament. And I believe that the left cannot have this idea.
The famous motto Clausewitz: the continuation war is a continuation of the politics by other means.
The left should believe that war is the failure of politics, and the left should have very clear
that on its banners the war, anti-militarism and not to war are essential- dramatically essential.