Russell thanks for joining us. Thanks for talking with Truthloader.
I’m happy to be on Truthloader. We’re calling it Trewsloader for the today because
of my show The Trews and your show Truthloader. Seems like there is already a firm platform
for collaboration.
Absolutely, hashtag Trews-loader.
That’s the hashtag.
Ok, so Revolution, the book. What’s the message.
Organise, demand better. We have become disconnected with from our own nature. We are operating
under erroneous systems that don’t serve us. Organise. Become active.
So what’re you saying? The current system doesn’t work?
Well, I’m not saying that. Everyone’s saying that. Eighty? Let me work this out.
Only 27% of people are satisfied with the current system, that means, what does that
mean? 73% of people are not satisfied. Only 1% of people would keep things the way they
are politically. Let me just look at these stats I have got here because then you’re
getting genuine statistics. Now I’m sure you would like a genuine statistic?
I would love a good statistic.
Check this out. Last election in Britain 64% of people in Britain didn’t vote. So that’s
like what normal people think. Only 27% of people are happy with how Parliament works.
Only 1% say they are very satisfied. Imagine who that 1% are.
The really rich?
It will be Ash you cynical devil. You got it in your first guess. The reason we’re
not is because it is a corrupt system. Last week, David Cameron, he is in charge, you
know him. His face looks like you’ve left a pudding has formed on top of a pudding,
maybe a custard or a rice pudding and the skin has come up to life and now it’s in
charge of your country after it’s had an expensive education. Last week he had dinner
with a load of billionaire landowners and Iain Duncan Smith sat with payday lenders
who charge 750% interest rates to the poorest people, the most vulnerable working people
in our country. So those kind of things, that’s not the only way things can be. So this book
in a way what that I wrote, typed in on my laptop cover some of those ideas.
These illuminous things don’t come with it. I don’t know what these are. Have you
been cultivating these? Have you put these under hydraulic lamps?
Those are the most interesting points in the book.
They certainly are. They’re bleeding out of the pages.
So tell us about the Revolution. What needs to happen?
You’ve read it, what do you think mate?
No this is about what you think. Because the book is a collection of your thoughts and
a collection of your interviews with various people like Occupy Movement members, social
experts. What is it that they say that you think is going to be good for society.
A good example is David Graeber. Not David Gray. Don’t trust him on this issue. David
Graeber an anarchist, anthropologist said cancel debt for ordinary people so like your
mortgage and credit cards could be cancelled. Imagine that. “That can’t be done. That
can’t happen. You can’t debt.” Oh yes you can. The financial industry cancelled
trillions of dollars of debt. They just cancelled it. It just went away. Just went away. There’s
this thing called quantitative easing. You might have heard of quantitative easing. It
means the Government pumps our money into the financial industry to keep it afloat and
what do they tell you. Oh, capitalism, the free market, it’s good for it. It’s competitive,
it holds stuff together. It needs to be held together with all sorts of structures and
your money. So like instead of cancelling debts for people that have already got loads
of money and working in an imaginary, metaphorical financial industry, cancel debt for your parents
and you, people that you care about and love. That’s a possibility.
There are probably some economists who think that is not the right way to go.
Yeah of course they do because....People that say the system works,work for the system.
When they say the system works, they mean the system works for me. A lot of people don’t
want things to change because they’re happy and the Parliamentary democracy we currently
have, that is designed...they can’t just go “oh wish we could change it”, because
it is functioning how it is supposed to. It’s creating a wealthy elite, it’s protecting
the financial industry. It’s serving big business, oppressing the people and information
being relayed through conventional media. That’s why Truthloader has an obligation.
That’s why all of us have an obligation. The first obligation is to accept that change
is possible. The people that say change isn’t possible are the people that benefit from
things staying the same. So when people tell you it isn’t possible, just silently in
your head go “Er huh, gotta a c*** here. Let’s mark them off. “Ooh, there’s one
there.” Carry on talking to them if you want or walk away.
So about the democratic process at the moment. So you think it’s not working along with
a lot of other people?
Along with the vast majority of people who think it’s not working. We don’t think
it works.
So what would work?
Well, in the book, there is the example of Porte Alegre in Brazil who do a thing called
Direct Democracy. People of Porte Alegre (I might not be pronouncing it right but I’m
not a Brazilian). There is a population of I don’t know, three million. When they get
their budget each year, the people vote on what they want to happen to their budget.
People attend general assemblies, they directly vote, they directly allocate their budgets
for themselves. This means that people spend a lot more money on social services, a lot
more women and minorities are involved in the process. It’s a different form of democracy.
What it actually is, is democracy. What we don’t have at the moment is democracy. What
we have is....what we have is participatory tinerary. Tyranny. And tinnery because people
have tins.
You make some interesting points in the book about the economy and how it’s like a man
made thing, so we’ve created an economy where it is meant to benefit ourselves. But
actually because of....capitalism, it has become something that isn’t benefitting
us and so the things you say in the book are put all the power out rather than centrally
and so as you say let more people more of a choice so a kind of liquid democracy thing.
Yeah. Dave De Graw described that very well. Genuine democracy where people participate
in the running of their own community.
And you think that would work and you think people would be engaged enough with that?
It wouldn’t be perfect but we’re not competing with perfection Ash. What we are competing
with is total inequality, absolute corruption, ecological meltdown. That’s what we have
got to beat. We’ve got to beat a system that in the next 50-100 years is going to
destroy the planet. So the bar ain’t set high. We’re not talking about the Barcelona
of political systems we are talking about the Crewe Alexandra. No disrespect to Crewe
Alexandra.
How do we get to that from the current democratic system to that?
I’ll give you an example. There are mothers of the Carpenters Estate Focus E15, they were
shafted by the system because they were disempowered people, they were kicked out of their homes
and told go to your bed and breakfast and dispersed and distributed all around the country.
What they did was they organised themselves and they collectivised and they refused to
cooperate by occupying houses on the Carpenters Estate. As a result of this, change is happening
on the Carpenters Estate in east London and some houses are being occupied. Those mothers
have drawn attention to the vital issue of housing in cities. What I would recommend.
If you are blissfully happy, don’t worry you’re fine. You’re one of the 1%. Sit
down and have a cigar. If you are anybody else. Say you are not happy with your mortgage,
say you are not happy with your rent, you are not happy with your job, talk to other
people who are involved in the place where you work or the place where you live and decide
what you want and act together. Unify and act together. That’s what I would recommend.
No matter what the issue. Maybe I don’t like Tesco’s they charge too much money,
talk to other people. Do you not like Tesco’s? Come together, organise yourselves. Don’t
look for a “hopefully, Brian Blessed or Jesus or Darth Vader will come along”. Do
it yourself. Do it yourself.
What do you think about all the coverage of those comments about what you were saying
to Jeremy Paxman about voting?
Well I think it must have resonated.
Do you think there are a lot of people out there who are in the same position as you
and haven’t voted ever?
Well we know 64% of people didn’t vote at the last election.
But they may have voted before?
Well I don’t know because I am not a statistician. But what I do know mate is that....I think
what the interesting point here is when someone says – and that someone is me – “Don’t
vote – it’s pointless, there’s nothing worth voting for..” everyone focuses on
“What do you mean ‘Don’t Vote?!’” Not, “there’s nothing worth voting for
it’s pointless.” That’s the interesting bit. That’s the interesting bit. Don’t
worry about don’t vote. I’ll be dead soon. You know like 50 – 60 years maximum. I’m
a human being within infinite space with expiring transitory organisms holding me together.
The cellular structure is non-permanent. But the idea is true. People know it’s true.
But what about people like John Lydon who came out and said what you’re saying is
basically a load or rubbish and you need to engage with the system to change the system
and you work at it from within.
Who would he suggest voting for. I don’t hear them saying “And that’s why I always
vote for...Ed Miliband? That’s why I always vote for David Cameron. That’s why I always
vote for Nick Clegg? Who do you wanna vote for? If you’re so confident in your argument
you tell me. You tell me, you’re got the mic, you’ve got the system, you’ve got
the guns, you tell me, you explain to us how we should participate in your system. Tell
us, we’re listening.
Would you create your own political party?
I would participate in a worthwhile one.
Would you not become?
I don’t agree with that kind of leadership, and hero worship and those kind of structures.
No the reason why I say that is because you know you have a massive social media presence,
you have a really big following and people are listening to what you say.
Yes, thank God and I thank you for listening and I am here with you, I’m here for you,
we are in this together. We’re going to do things that are worthwhile. We’re not
going to listen to the teachers or the deputy head masters, I think it would be better,
if I was you I would be saying this. Well you’re not me, are you?
But you’ve got elements of what makes a political party. So you’ve got support,
you’ve got money, you can create your own manifesto.
You can do what you want.
No, no, I know. I’m just asking you the question. Would you, considering there’s
all this disenfranchisement with the current political system, ok, we are talking about
a system here, but what about
Not participating in that system. No more compromise. We have compromised. No more compromise.
We’ve seen the results of compromise. We’ve seen the results of their system. We are living
in it. This is a time for radical change. Don’t worry about me, I’m just the bloke
from Big Brother’s Big Mouth, you can f**k me off in an instant. I’m talking about
what Naomi Klein is saying who has dedicated her life to it. I’m talking about Noam Chomsky
is saying. I’m talking about what the UN is saying. The UN is saying we could live
on localised organic agriculture and we’re not because that don’t suit Monsanto. It
would suit every single person in the world but the political systems and structures that
we have are there for Monsanto. They’re not there for you. If they were there for
you they would follow the UN’s advice and have organic agriculture where the food you
ate was good for you and was grown near you.
OK, so, not this political system but something else.
Not just something else mate. Don’t try that bulls**t. It’s covered in here. Anarcho
syndicalism, collectivism, direct democracy, liquid democracy, cooperatives. Run your own
workplaces. Run your own communities using the technology that already exists. It’s
not like oh it’s just some drifty airy fairy thing. Take away corporate power, don’t
cooperate, organise, don’t pay your mortgages, don’t pay your taxes, not on your own, you’ll
go to prison, organise and watch this happen, watch it happen.
OK, what about getting sixteen and seventeen year olds to vote?
I’ve got more things to worry about although what about getting the sixteen and seventeen
year olds something to vote for Ash? What about that? It would be good if sixteen and
seventeen year olds in the suffragette movement, duh duh duh, you’re getting distracted,
you’ve become distracted. Who owns this? ITN? Yeah, this is ITN? Alright so this is
Truthloader and we are on the internet, it’s ITN. Don’t be distracted by other people’s
agenda. You know what’s right. You know what’s right.
If you want to read this book, read it, nick it if you want, I don’t care. The money
that I make from this book is going into creating new social enterprises, alternative ways of
being, alternative ways of living because we’re worth more, we’re worth better than
the advice of substitute teachers.
Tell us a bit about those social enterprises.
We’re setting up a new media organisations and new businesses supporting new people that
are setting up businesses that are not for profit, so very new business models so people
can grow foods, sey up their own cafeterias, distribute food however they want to, direct
functional businesses. People working in maintenance, people working in trade. We’re helping them
to organise, set up and promote their businesses. Plus we are setting up an HQ that’s the
most immediately addressing people with addiction issues, helping people with recovery because
that big to me particularly.
What do you think of the current drug policy towards people who are recovering?
It’s a very good metaphor, allegory, or demonstration of how the political class and
they call themselves that, I spoke to Nick Clegg recently and he said you’re right,
the political class don’t understand this issue well but they shouldn’t be a political
class of people. How can they be their own class of human beings? So the political class
are out of touch on the drug issue. Prohibition doesn’t work, it demonstrably doesn’t
work. What we need is regulation of dangerous substances and to treat addition like the
health issue it is, not as judicial criminal issue. That just exacerbates the problem and
places a very potent economy in our hands the hands of criminals so I think it’s a
really good example of how our system has no proper relationship with ordinary people’s
lives.
Is that because in the book you say it’s an illness and you shouldn’t say criminalised.
Yeah, that’s right and the World Health Organisation says that as well. And me. Depends
who you trust more. But we are saying the same thing, in this instance you don’t have
to make a decision.
But drugs should be legalised?
Regulated.
And sorry regulated.
Regulate drugs. Because people are going to take drugs aren’t they anyway? They take
drugs. You’re young people, you’ve probably taken drugs. Do you take drugs?
Not now.
When did you take drugs last? When was the last time you took drugs?
Oh I can’t remember.
Right see he’s taken so many drugs he literally can’t remember how many drugs he’s taken.
This is reality you’re living in Ash. This is actually happening.
When em?
What’s the question Ash?
Oh I don’t know, I can’t.
Come on mate get on with your questions.
OK, so obviously from your experience, reformed drug addict, what do you think should happen?
What’s the process because?
Look mate don’t get caught up in this. I am a comedian. There’s a book here that
explains some things.
But you draw from personal experience.
Sure of course I do. Compassion... is a health issue. Don’t like you know, if you want
to talk to someone who is a social engineer about how to structure a new medicinal system
talk to the experts in Portugal who have already decriminalised drugs. Talk to someone in Switzerland
who are setting up compassionate places where people can use drugs safely. Talk to them.
Get them on Truthloader. I’m not an expert on that. My expertise begins and ends with
asking people who have more knowledge and information than I do to contribute to this
book. Don’t make your, I can offer you opinions and personal experiences and anecdotes, but
like I’m not an administrator Ash.
No, but this is the reason why we are talking is because you do have personal experience
which people do
So what’s the question?
My question to you is
Frame it like I’m a human being not like I’m a bureaucrat in Westminster.
Rather than criminalise drug addicts who are trying to come off drugs what should be done?
Decriminalise it, treat it like as a health issue, don’t pout drug addicts in prison,
prescribe drugs...
So we’re talking about centres around the UK?
Well I don’t know mate. As I said to you around ten seconds ago Ash, I am not an administrator
in Westminster. You do it. Did you go to university?
Yeah but
I didn’t. Immediately you have an advantage over me. You went to university so you’ve
got that advantage.
I wouldn’t say that.
Russell Brand: Well ok, you don’t have to say that. That’s what I’m telling you.
That’s what I’m telling you mate. So you can help with the administration if that’s
something you care about or you can chose issues that are important to you and participate
in them yourself.
I wanted to ask you about Jacque Fresco and the Venus Project and sort of resource based
economies.
Oh yeah, I don’t know much about this but I am very interested in that.
So he talks about this vision of basically having a world where there isn’t any money
but it’s all based on an equal share of resources so everyone
So you mean practicable resources such as food and energy?
Well yeah crops as well so rather than you
Jacque Fresco?
Jacque Fresco. Did I say Jack?
I don’t know you may have Frenched it up a little bit. I anglicized it.
I just wanted to get your thoughts on that.
That’s f**king fantastic.
I’m sure he’ll be happy to hear that.
Of course it does. It sounds like a brilliant idea doesn’t it. It sounds like a lot of
the systems we have are sort of are erroneous systems that are devised simply to filter
and funnel resources. Jacque Fresco and this Venus project seem to be based on the ten
seconds of this information that I’ve had is use actual substances and actual real things
to build an economy on resources. I like a bloke called Buckminster Fuller. Buckminster
Fuller says we’re on this planet, there’s this many people, there’s this amount of
resources. Have systems that get toe resources to the people. Don’t have imaginary pretend
that funnel a large amount of resources of power to a small percentage of the population.
So kind of live in reality, live in a practical that’s about function, that’s about respecting
the planet and about respecting individual freedom so this resource based economy in
the Venus project is something I’d be interested in learning more about.
What would you say if someone were to say to you are you a rebel without a cause?
I’ll tell them what the cause is. Why are you saying it?
No, I’m not saying it.
No one’s said it then, we’re cool. But anyone who says it, I’ll tell them what
the cause is. And people know what the cause is. We’re talking about very, very important
issues mate. This isn’t some frivolous bulls**t.
And final question, when do you think the revolution will come to fruition?
It’s not up to me. This is something that will manifest in its own time. We’ll all
do what we can and this is something where you want to chose a side. Which side of the
argument do you want to be on?
Thanks Russell.
What’s this programme called?
Truthloader.
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