- [Dometi] How has music helped you to process
some of your traumatic experiences?
- Some people who misunderstand sad music are like,
"Why?" Like, even my mom.
She doesn't want to hear anything sad in the car, you know?
She's like, "Why would you want to,
"kind of, soak in that feeling?"
Honestly, it's kind of, like, trauma representation.
It's like, when I read a book that's super dark
or something, there's, like, a weight lifted
because it's just someone that you
look up to laying all this out, that you relate to.
- [Dometi] Let's start at the beginning.
Tell me about where you grew up
and what your childhood was like.
- I was raised in Pasadena, which is,
like, a suburb of L.A., for people who don't know.
My parents are, like, huge music fans.
They, like, listened to tons of music when I was growing up
and I feel like I owe the entirety of my music taste
at an early age to them.
I have a little brother, too, who's, like, a visual artist.
My dad's in construction.
My mom has had a string of odd jobs,
but then, now, is doing stand-up comedy for fun.
I usually get roasted pretty hard
if I go to see one of her shows.
- What does he say in her stand-up?
[Laughs] - It's like, most of it is, like,
too humiliating to even say out loud.
But, yeah, she'd definitely roast me for, like,
always dating crusty people 'cause of music.
I recommend it.
I recommend Jamie Bridgers if you want to know
some, like, really excruciating details about my life.
You should see my mom's stand-up comedy. [Laughs]
My parents were super supportive.
They had a very tumultuous relationship,
so definitely going through a lot of therapy.
But I think I turned out alright.
And I went to this awesome, free performing arts
high school called LACHSA that you have to audition for.
But then again, it's a public school and it's free,
which is - it's incredible to me that it exists.
And I had, like, a year of opera and a year of jazz,
and then I just went into music technology.
- I mean, it was such a musical high school that
you started an all-female band there.
- One of my best friends, Haley Dahl,
her band, called Sloppy Jane.
It was kind of more of, like, a three-chords-
and-screaming punk band when I was in it.
Thank god, because I'm horrible at bass.
But then, now, they're like, you know, anywhere from
10-piece to 20-piece band with, like, a full string quartet.
And we've gone on tour together as adults and it's, yeah.
It's like one of my favorite bands.
- You said you were horrible at bass, but
I know you're good at plucking that guitar
though, when it's not the bass.
How did you get involved in playing instruments
and what instruments did you start with?
- I was forced to take piano lessons.
I wasn't that interested in it for some reason.
I'm not a great math student
and that's what it felt like to me.
It felt like learning a whole other type of math.
So, I feel like guitar was my rebellion,
which was probably my mom's overarching plan,
was for me to rebel and start
playing guitar instead of piano.
But she let me believe that it was a true rebellion,
and then I quit piano and started taking guitar lessons.
- Did you know that this was something
that you'd be doing for the rest your life?
- Yeah. I think I was overconfident
before I was any good because of my mom.
There's a venue here called The Smell -
it's named very appropriately -
and she would, like, drop me off,
I would play a show, and then she'd
pick me up at, like, 3:00 in the morning.
She was just so supportive.
- After high school, you know,
those crusty bars led you somehow to Berklee,
which is amazing, but you decided not to go.
- I didn't really want to go to school
because I'm bad at school.
But I was already kind of playing shows
and just felt like, "Why would I go to more music school?"
But my mom was like, "Look, totally fair, whatever.
"But like, you need to apply to one school. Just one."
And so, I chose Berklee School of Music 'cause
I'm a fan of tons of people who went there.
We went to, like, a little L.A. orientation and
she was basically like,
"This is rad, but it's also expensive."
And yeah, you're like, this would be you
learning how to do what you're doing.
- When do you get to that moment where you
finally get what many would call your big break?
- It's funny. I feel like I've had hundreds of big breaks.
Like, every little thing felt like a big break to me.
You know, like selling 100 tickets in London
felt like my big break. And then, going on tour,
where I wasn't really making any money
but I've got to play with the Violent Femmes,
that felt like my big break.
Getting signed to Dead Oceans.
Again, like, every minute.
And then, last year, it's like, Grammys and
you know, somebody I think is cool
tweets about me or something.
Like, everything feels like, you know,
a new level to me, which is awesome.
- At what point did you begin really
solidifying your solo journey?
- I didn't understand the concept
of not playing every five seconds. And more than anything,
I feel like I just made tons of friends from those shows.
That's how I met my drummer, Marshall, who,
you know, we write tons of songs together.
And Harrison, my guitar player,
we just met through tons of mutual friends and
I feel like they contributed
so much to the way that I sound.
I didn't really know what I was doing before I met them.
So I feel like it was mostly just about
getting out there and meeting people.
- When did 'Stranger in the Alps' come into the picture?
- My friend Andy Olyphant was kind of,
like, helping me out a lot.
He's a music guy and he introduced me to Tony Berg,
who's this producer.
And I had, like, convinced myself I didn't need a producer.
I was like, I'm just going to make my record by myself
on, like, a four-track tape machine.
And then I met Tony and we hung out for, like, nine hours.
We just kind of, like, nerded out about music.
And then we spent two years -
He, you know, he worked on it for free.
He just was like,
"I'm sure we'll get paid at some point," basically.
But I was getting, like, random tours and stuff
that I always wanted to go on.
And then, I'd come back and record for a couple weeks,
go out, tour for a couple weeks,
come back, record for a couple weeks.
But I think I really needed that time.
Like, I think that I wrote my favorite songs
for that record while I was on tour.
And now, that's, like, my favorite way to work.
- What is it about your process that works for you
and how'd you, kind of, find that?
- Well, I totally found it on accident.
I think, when I was making my first record,
I thought I was totally ready.
I thought I had all the songs.
But then, I think I got a little bit snow-blind.
Like, it was just kind of a soft, folk record
with cool sounds and stuff.
Like, there was nothing very exciting about my record.
I just was like, "It needs something else."
And I wrote my song "Motion Sickness"
as, like, this ballad and we recorded it like that.
And then Tony was like, "This needs drums.
"And it needs to, you know, be like a real song.
"We can't have this be a fake song."
So I think what's nice about it
is just being able to listen and then try again.
I feel like that's our process for the most part,
is making something and then scrapping
all of it and doing something else.
- How often do you begin writing your songs
as ballads and then filling in the blanks later?
- Like, almost 100 percent of the time.
And I think it's because I write by myself.
I also, like, live in a place where one of my neighbors
yelled through my window for me to shut up once.
So I write really quietly.
And then I bring it into a studio,
and that's almost like getting to write it again.
So, instead of writing 50 songs,
I feel like I write 50 versions of the same song
until it's the one I want.
- Where do you draw inspiration from?
- I just kind of focus on lyrics first.
That's from mostly personal experience.
But then, production-wise, I will listen to
kind of as much as possible.
And then, I'll make, like, a playlist of
little ideas and stuff.
- When you get into songs that are as deeply personal
as "Motion Sickness," are you ever worried or
concerned with being that honest, being that transparent?
Is that a difficult process or is it
more of a cathartic process?
- It is cathartic, and I think the way that I comfort myself
through writing it is just like,
"You don't have to show this to anybody."
But then, by the time I record, I'm usually
already over it or I'm excited to put it into the world.
But that's kind of how I trick my brain into doing it.
And I have yet to edit myself for the public.
I feel like if I didn't write about personal stuff,
I would be robbing myself of the experience of
talking to fans with mirrored experiences.
It's so fun to play a show or joke about something dark,
and then have somebody come up to you
and you're laughing about trauma, basically.
You know, you're laughing about something,
or a shared experience, and you're like,
"Man, I'm so glad I said that because
"otherwise I wouldn't have had that conversation."
- [Dometi] 'Punisher' comes out June 18, 2020.
What made you decide on that name for the album?
- It's a name for, kind of, overzealous fans.
And I don't think of a "punisher" as somebody who just
likes your music and comes up and tells you
because, believe it or not, that's great.
Everybody wants to hear that
somebody likes the thing that you make.
I feel like a "punisher," specifically, is -
say you're at a party and someone just corners you
and wants to talk about, like, the darkest possible thing
on the news that they saw.
They don't realize how in hell you are
and that you - and they're not getting
any vibes that you want them to shut up.
I was walking from a venue once and -
alone - and, like, looked behind me
and there was somebody, like, walking pretty fast behind me.
And I was like, "What the (beep)." Freaked out.
And I was walking to my hotel,
and so, I kind of, like, pick up the pace
a little bit and walk faster.
And he starts running after me.
And I was like, "Oh my god, I'm being chased."
And then the guy is like, "Hey, I'd never chase you.
"I just want you to sign something."
He was like actively chasing me
and he was like, "I would never chase you."
[Laughs]
- That is easy to laugh at now,
but that is very scary, actually.
- It was scary for two seconds, and then I looked back
and I was like, "Oh no, like, I missed this guy
"who wanted his record signed."
But I feel like everybody, when they talk to somebody
who they really admire, risks doing that.
And I feel like I've definitely done that to people.
The song "Punisher" on the record is about Elliott Smith.
We would have lived less than a mile away from each other
if he were alive right now.
And now, I know tons of his friends
and have worked in studios that he's worked in,
and he just would have been around in such a heavy way.
And I know his whole discography,
I've read every book about him ever.
So, the song is just kind of examining how
it's impossible to have a normal relationship
with someone that you grew up with as, like, an idol.
- What is "Kyoto" about?
- "Motion Sickness," from the first record,
is almost ironically angry.
I'm mad and I'm trying to get through it or something.
And it's a lot about resentment.
And then, I feel like "Kyoto" is kind of that sequel feeling
where I'm mad at my dad,
but then kind of
realizing that I'm also kind of over it.
Forgiveness is a gift to yourself
and I totally feel like that.
It sucks to walk around angry all the time.
♪ "Kyoto" by Phoebe Bridgers ♪
My dad and I started talking again for, like,
the first time in a really long time over COVID, so.
- Wow.
- Yeah.
Songs are great.
They just kind of, like, help you work through (beep).
Like, kind of, even before I feel it.
- Did he talk about the song at all to you?
- He was like - [Laughs]
Not initially, but then, like, around Grammy (beep),
he was like,
"Hey. Like, that song, that is about me,
"is nominated for Grammy."
And that's the first time we talked about it.
So, I was like, "Ah!" But yeah, I'm glad it was, like,
lighthearted of a conversation, for sure.
- When you were writing the song, where you genuinely
working through those emotions in real time?
What made you take that approach,
especially that refrain in the end?
And even the idea of making the choruses
different each time.
They don't match one another.
- I think it was probably the fourth round
where the choruses stopped matching.
That's one of my favorite things about writing songs, is
I probably have five more choruses that
sound pretty similar and could be in that song.
♪ "Kyoto" by Phoebe Bridgers ♪
My ability to dissociate is actually a great tool
because I'm not super emotionally activated
when I'm writing songs like that.
And then, like, a year later, or something,
I'm like, "That's (beep) up. That's a (beep) up song."
- How did you come up with the concept for the visual?
- I played Japan in early 2019 for the first time.
It was, like, my favorite thing ever.
I ended up writing "Kyoto" a little bit there.
In early 2020, I was supposed to go back
and play with The National.
So, I had this idea for the song where I was like,
OK, we start with a green screen,
and then halfway through the video,
I walk through something and then I'm in Japan.
Just like perfect, beautiful,
wide-lens, but it's all real.
And then, we just, we shot the whole song
on a green screen just in case.
And then, of course, you know, fast forward.
So, the video concept was just kind of accidental.
- I did not see that coming, that's crazy.
The aesthetics with 'Strangers in the Alps,'
with the ghost on the cover and then the skeleton
that you perform in, that we see in "Kyoto,"
that we see on the cover of 'Punisher.'
What are the meanings behind that dark aesthetic?
- I created a meaning for it after.
Like, I found Angela Deane literally on Tumblr.
I loved her art and sent her all these childhood
photos of me and asked her to paint ghosts on them,
'cause that's what she does.
And then, as time went on, realizing how sad that is,
you make an album a lot about your childhood
and it's your first record, and it's, like,
you're painted over.
And when you take the ghost off, I'm smiling so big.
And it's, like, such a sad photo to me.
And then, the second record, I went out with my friend Olof
to the middle of the desert to take photos.
And I was wearing kind of, like, a beautiful dress.
And then, got the photos back,
didn't think it was even going to be an album cover.
We had no idea.
And then found that one photo
and was like, "I wish there was something funny about this.
"Like, why am I in, like, a beautiful gown?"
So, I was a skeleton for Halloween with my band.
So, we did the photo shoot again with the skeleton costume,
and I was like, it kind of makes sense
because of the first record.
It's, like, this silly $10 costume that represents death.
And I feel like if I were to describe my music,
it's kind of like that. It's, like, silly death.
[Laughs]
So, it's also really comfortable and really easy to play in.
So, I kind of made it easy for myself by having,
like, the world's cheapest, easiest stage outfit.
- You made history this year.
Best Rock Performance,
for the first year in Grammys history,
all female artists or female-led bands.
What is it like being a part of that milestone?
- I mean, it's so rad, especially because
I'm such huge fan of every single nominee.
I feel like that's my favorite part is just, like,
feeling like a part of something that I actually understand.
I'm like, "Duh." Like, "Duh, these people are nominated."
And it feels so cool to be in that group.
- I can only imagine.
How do you think you'll look back
at 'Punisher' five years from now?
- I think I'll weirdly associated it more with
2020 than when I was writing it.
People read into a lot of lyrics to mean
that the world was ending, and I'm kind of like,
"I always think the world is ending."
It's not just about 2020.
But it feels more like that now in retrospect.
The fan interaction made it kind of more about
when everybody heard it than what it was about,
which I love. - Right.
- So I think I'll weirdly associate it with being
very strangely alone all day, but then
talking to more people than I ever have all at once.
- What did you learn about the industry at large
and how does it shape the way you
navigate the music industry now?
- You are the boss.
I think I didn't internalize that for a really long time.
And I thought I had to, like, make people happy
or I thought that people were doing me a favor.
But I think I wish I could, like, go back
and tell myself that people like you
because they think they're going to make money off of you
and they think that you're cool.
So, your ideas are why everybody's here.
So, like, stop pandering to the room
and just do your own thing 'cause it's cool.