-Welcome to the show. -Thanks for having me.
Your book and your journey is genuinely
one of the most shocking stories I have ever read.
You lived a life
-that many people should not have emerged out of. -Right.
Right? You-you talk very early on in the book
about how grew up in a world
that your-your therapist referred to
as basically growing up in a combat zone.
-Exactly. -What does that mean?
It means there was a lot of gun violence in my neighborhood.
Uh, buried five of my friends before the age of 17.
I lost family members. My brother was shot.
My cousin was gunned down in front of my house.
And this stuff was happening every couple of months.
Right, and you-you lived in this world
where there was on... not only violence on the outside,
-but violence on the inside, as well... -Right.
Because you-you talk about in the book--
and it's really heart-wrenching--
about how your mom was physically abused
-by your dad at the time, who was a policeman. -Right.
How did that... how did that affect your-your world?
I mean, because you're-you're growing up in this world
where there's so much violence, and then,
-you have this man who's a policeman... -Right.
who is creating even more violence in your world.
-So he was... so he was my stepfather, though. -Right.
But, um, my mom, um, was dating him.
It was a nightmare. It was a nightmare,
and it started out, um, verbal abuse,
and then it just became physical,
and because he was a police officer,
when my mom would call the police,
-they wouldn't do anything. -Right.
Did that... did that change your perception of police?
'Cause most kids grow up thinking the police are heroes.
-Yeah, I actually wanted to be a police officer. -Oh.
I'm a little, like, embarrassed
to admit that now, but, like, police...
(laughter)
I mean... I mean, Officer Friendly--
-they would come to the school. -Right, right, right.
And it was, like... it was... it was a role
that I wanted to play, and then,
you know, my experiences growing up--
at least in my neighborhood--
it was... it was just a negative experience.
You-you then go on to talk about how...
you went into a world where crime was basically
-the only avenue that was opened up to you. -Right.
You get into a life of crime as a young kid, I think at 14.
-Yes. -And by the time you are 16, you're deep into it.
-And you-you get sentenced to life in prison. -Yes.
-At the age of 17? -17, yeah.
17 years old, sentenced to life in prison.
What is... what is going through your mind
when that's happening?
When that... when that verdict comes down,
what is happening in your brain?
It was... it was like receiving a death sentence,
and as you can imagine,
going to prison is like being teleported to another planet.
-Right. -And so... And I only weighed, like, 120 pounds,
so I was, like, super terrified of going into prison
-as a child being charged as an adult... -Right.
and having to grow old and die there, and so, I was terrified.
And what had you been arrested for?
-Um, first-degree murder. -Right.
And so, now, you-you lived in this world of violence,
you're a 17-year-old who's been sentenced to life in prison,
you go into prison-- this is a story that seems like...
-it's ended now. -Right.
And yet that is just the beginning
-of the story in this book. -Right.
Genuinely, one of the most amazing stories ever,
because you-you... you set goals for yourself,
you get into prison, and then you decide
that you're going to make your life better, in prison.
-Right. -Why?
So, I knew growing up, my mom had instilled in me
that I was a good person.
I've always wanted to be an entrepreneur,
and, like, growing up, playing chess and playing the cello,
people in my neighborhood would say, "Man, that's not cool, man.
You don't do that." So I never really applied myself.
And so once I was finally, uh, I was sentenced to life in prison,
and everyone was like, "Just get comfortable,
you're gonna grow old and die there," I knew in my heart
that I was a good person, so I wanted to write up a plan
and apply myself and prove to myself
and prove to everyone else that my life was redeemable.
Right. And when you were in prison,
did you feel like prison helped you believe
-that your life was redeemable? -No. No.
Prison, like, it was mostly punitive,
and they were telling me, "Get comfortable,
you're gonna grow old and die there," but there were people
that I met in prison who actually saw a potential in me
and gave me hope that I can get out.
Right. You talk about one of your...
one of your cellmates who forced you to learn math,
-Yeah. -and he would punish you
if you couldn't get the answers right.
I mean, which is, I mean, a great way to learn math.
-Right, yeah. -(laughter)
Being in a prison cell with someone, you'd be like, "Yeah,
"I'm-I'm-a learn my... I'm-a learn my four-times table.
I'll learn this." That's an interesting way to learn, right?
Interesting, right. Love this guy to death.
Um, he would give me math problems,
and then he would say, "I'm gonna give you this problem,
"and you need to beat your time, and if you can't do it,
"you either got to drink a cup of water
-or you got to do 25 push-ups." -Right.
-So I put on a lot of muscle in there, like... -(laughter)
But also got my high school diploma
-in, like, two months. -Right. Now, you...
you-you talk about this journey,
and when you... when you went into prison,
-it was a life sentence. Right? -Yes.
But then you get out after how many years?
16 1/2 years.
And that, for many people, is the beginning of an ending,
-because you are now a felon. -Right.
You are now someone who society has deemed dangerous.
-Right. -You are somebody who has been,
you know, found guilty of first-degree murder.
-Right. -Where do you even begin your journey now?
So, throughout my prison sentence,
I knew that society would look at me that way.
And I would see a lot of people get out of prison
and come back in prison, and so I had in my mind,
you know, kind of, like, a mental fortitude
that I was gonna be able to get out there
and just work really hard to prove people wrong.
And then oftentimes, we always hear the stories
about people getting out and committing other crimes,
-Right. -so I wanted to prove everybody wrong
-by showing that we can come home and be successful. -This...
What was interesting-- and this is fascinating
-about Chris's story... -(cheering and applause)
...is you...
you-you went into prison
being what many people would consider the worst of society.
-Right. -And in that time,
you-you go in, you study.
What are all the achievements that you...
that you did for yourself in prison?
-Just list them, 'cause it's really impressive. -Okay.
So, I... First, I got my high school diploma.
-Uh-huh. -I got my college degree in sociology.
-Right. -I taught myself to read and write and speak
-in Spanish, Italian. -Uh-huh.
Went on to learn Mandarin.
Start a book club. Start a career center.
-(laughs) -(cheering and applause)
-And on and on and on and on, yeah. -Right.
Yeah, I just...
So, I mean, you-you come out with all these skills.
You go out into the real world,
but the real world doesn't appreciate
a person who has rehabilitated themselves.
-We've learned this in society. -Not at all. Right.
We're trying to change that, but we have learned that.
You start going into business.
You want to become a businessperson,
-but banks don't want to give you loans. -Right.
-Yeah. -So how do you even begin that journey
of getting the money? How-how does that work?
So, it's actually very, very strange, too.
Like, going into banks... My companies...
When I started my first company, it was profitable.
I was making, you know, like, $20,000 a month.
And I would go into the bank
and say, "I need a $5,000 line of credit."
And, like, every bank, like, told me no.
And eventually I found out
-it was because I was a convicted felon. -Right.
And so it just made it very difficult
for me to be successful,
and that's what happens to a lot of people
when they come home from prison.
It's like, you want to do the right thing,
and doors just shut everywhere you turn.
And so it's very, very, uh, very difficult.
And now you-you've decided to make that part of your purpose.
-Yes. -What does your company do,
and how do you work with, uh, with people
who have come out of prison?
So, I started my first company,
which is a furniture design company,
making high-end furniture.
I started a second company,
a construction contracting company.
And both of my companies...
I didn't know it at the time when I was in prison,
but I wanted to create opportunities for people.
And, so, I now know the term "social entrepreneur."
But I create job opportunities
for people who need... who need help the most.
And, so... I'm-I'm, you know, very, uh, proud
-of the work I've done since I've been in Baltimore. -Right.
(cheering and applause)
Someone who-who is pro, you know, a punitive system
might say, "Chris...
"clearly America's prison system works
"because you went in as a murderer,
"and then you came out as a model citizen.
Isn't that what the prison system is supposed to do?"
How would you respond to that?
So, I would push back on that, right?
So... But it all depends on who you ask.
Some people think the prison systems are working fine.
They're decimating, uh, communities and people of color.
Um, but, you know, I think that the prison system is broken,
and it didn't help me.
I had to really, like, push myself,
um, to learn all I can.
And even when I finished vocational shop
or got my high school diploma,
-I read hundreds and hundreds of books. -Right.
Um, but the other thing I'll say, too, is, you know,
we got to think about what we're doing to our children.
I went to prison as a child,
and, you know, my brain wasn't developed.
You know, uh, my life was threatened,
and I took a person's life, and that's wrong, right?
But my life shouldn't have been thrown away.
And, you know, as-as a society,
we should-- we should be more thoughtful
of giving children who commit crimes a second chance.
-So I'm-- I've dedicated my life -(applause)
to, um, being of worth for them.
If you go back in your life
and you look at that decision that you made
to take somebody else's life,
what do you think could have changed in your community
that could have prevented you
from getting into the life that you did?
I mean, there-there's a lot of things,
right, um, in my neighborhood.
Like, one, like, the-the crack epidemic
that swept through my neighborhood.
Um, our teachers, um, were underpaid.
There was a lot of crime. There were so many things.
-Right. -I can't really, um, say
what-what a magical solution would have been.
But I guess, like, the shortest answer would've been,
um, like, my mom--
if my mom had, like, more support.
Like, my mom was sexually assaulted in front of me.
And, as a victim, I watched her slip downhill.
And there was no help for her.
Even watching all my friends die,
there was no one to come talk to me and say,
"How you feeling about, like, watching your friend die?"
-They would just say, "It'll be okay." -Mm-hmm.
And I would think about these images every day,
and I couldn't concentrate in school.
I couldn't, like, function.
I had to sleep on the floor
because stray bullets would come to our h--
go through our house. And so it's tough.
And a lot of children grow up like that.
And so I want to be a voice to speak out
against these conditions and-and continue to do so.
When-when you look at, um,
people who have come out of prison now,
do you try and tell them the importance
of-of speaking to someone?
Do you tell them the importance of therapy?
-Do you-- do you try and get them into that? -Right.
So that's something that's-that's very,
very important.
Um, I talk about this in the book.
Um, there's, like, 30-something things that you can do
-and implement in your own Master Plan. -Right.
And, like, the first one is, like, man,
write that shit down, right?
Write it down, um,
and-and give, like, someone else,
like, a copy of your list so they can hold you accountable.
And, like, me, I did my grandmother.
'Cause, like, no one tells-- no one, like--
You know, you always obey your grandmother, right?
-Right. -So, um, I had other things,
like, you know, create your own personal board of advisors.
Right? So, someone who's, like, an expert in, like, finance
or, like, you know, relationships.
And you just take 'em out for lunch, like, once a month.
-You just do stuff like that. -Right.
And-and, like, finally, just, like, never, never quit.
Never give up.
And surround yourself with, like,
positive people that push you.
And-and, often, people say,
"You know, your story is amazing."
And maybe it is.
But there's nothing special about me.
I only made it this far because a handful of people
saw potential in me a-and pushed me
to make me believe that I could be successful.
And it's still like this to this day.
I disagree, man. I think your story's very special.
I think you're an amazing guy.
It's not a perfect story,
and that's what makes it perfect to talk about.
The Master Plan, an amazing story,
an amazing book, is available now.
Chris Wilson, everybody.