-Welcome back to "Late Night."
We're here with Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak of "POOG."
And I do want to ask about the fact that you refer
to yourselves often on podcasts as the hags of "POOG."
How did that name come about?
'Cause it sounds a little derisive
as I hear myself say it,
but, of course, you use it differently.
-No, it is absolutely a sort of reclaiming, Seth.
You're right on it. You know, unfortunately,
the seemingly neutral-gendered female terms, such as ladies,
girls, the gals of "POOG," the ladies of "POOG,"
have an inherent negative connotation
because the very fact of being a woman
is a slur to some, you see?
So "hags," for us, is a way of sort of leaning in,
you know, in "What is the hag?"
The hag is a witch, the hag is a crone.
-Right. -The hag is a space of wisdom
and mystery, and, you know...
Well, Kate actually -- Kate's thesis --
the title of Kate's thesis -- yes, she's highly --
-Yes, I have a master's. Jacqueline, stop.
-Yes, she has a master's.
She wasn't gonna bring it up herself.
But the title of her thesis was "Sublime Hideousness."
And I think we lean into that, because the sort of hideousness,
despite the serums, despite the, you know, et cetera, those --
Hideousness, as a woman, is important.
Would you agree, Kate? -We want to be sweating
all over the cauldron, you know, making the potions,
things like that.
-And then a little boy like Seth --
You see, Seth, I can see you sort of wandering
into the forest of me and Kate.
Well, there we are, "Argghh!" Right?
-Yeah. -You come in.
It's a thrill for even you.
-A tincture. -Yes.
To picture the forest, I think,
for me evokes the excitement that you're speaking of.
Now, having that mental image,
I understand it a great deal more.
I hope I'm not stepping afoul of the wellness industry
and your celebration of it.
I believe it's often known as maybe being a little
scam-friendly, in that a lot of these products
don't actually do what they claim to do.
Have you found that to be true?
-We support and long for
the snake-oil salesmen in this society to call to us.
We love mystery, Kate. You know, Kate has said
the original batch of snake oil,
must have been something in it, right?
Something has worked. Bring it on.
The power, again, of placebo. -Placebo works.
-[ Laughs ] -We know this.
You know, sell me anything. I want to believe.
We want to believe. -Yes.
-And that's a powerful thing to hold.
-I guess you were a believer in the idea of -- this is a --
I'm gonna show a photo.
Correct me if I'm wrong here, Jacqueline.
This is a headache ailment?
-Well, it certainly was for me.
Let's take a look. Let's take a glance.
Yes. You see, that's the kind of activity I partake in.
-That's a shot. There's the shot.
-There's the one. -That's the shot.
-They didn't recommend that you put it on that way,
but I think there's power in freezing the head.
You know, both -- A.D.D., depression, et cetera --
sometimes applying physical coldness to the head,
I believe, can slow down the thoughts
in a way that is helpful.
And Kate's a long-time migraine sufferer,
one of the great migraine sufferers, I'd say.
-Thank you, thank you. -You've worked with ice.
-I've worked with ice. Hasn't done much with me.
But, yes, I would like -- I reckon I would try that.
-Kate, was wellness something you were drawn to in your youth?
Or is this sort of a new obsession?
-Thank you for hearkening me back to my youth, Seth.
-You're very welcome.
-I have always been a hypochondriac.
I've, of course -- I'm in recovery,
as many hypochondriacs constantly are.
But when I was young, I would often call my mom at school,
you know, "I'm having a heart attack, come get me."
She made the mistake of coming to get me, right?
Classically, you say to the child,
"No, you're fine," and then they have to work through that
on their own.
But I instead was given to bouts of hysteria.
I would beg.
For years, every Christmas, I would beg we for an MRI.
I just wanted the chance to see inside
to see what I knew was going wrong.
They didn't give me the MRI,
which I think, ultimately, was for the best.
But, yeah, I've always been curious about, you know,
what's lingering inside my body that might one day take me down.
I think we all are.
But instead of trying to lead with that fear,
I lead with the optimism of,
you know, maybe it's just hydration.
Maybe hydration is really the thing that's going to free me.
And by the way, Seth, I'm curious about
your hydration habits, because you have such a --
Look at that skin. You know, you work in TV,
you're on the screen, you must --
How many liters are you putting away a day?
-I think it's probably a 2-liter day on a show.
If there's a show, I try to put down 2 liters.
-No, and you've never looked better, Seth.
I gotta say, I don't if you're sleeping more,
you know, they're not calling you into the studio.
I think the lack of audience
has been deeply freeing for you, in some senses.
I think it's been a spiritual -- -Wow.
-Right after you say a joke... -Yeah.
-...what happens in that space?
What are you doing in that moment
when there isn't a studio audience to laugh at your joke?
I think you're talking to God.
-I hadn't thought about that. -Wow.
I'm crying. -Yeah.
-But I realize that's true, that the audience,
to no fault of their own, are too nosey --
too noisy for me to communicate with a higher being.
And now that there's that gap, so to speak...
-I mean, whatever that means to you, Seth, absolutely.
But there has to be -- there's a spirit of faith
that is required when one speaks a joke into the ether.
-Yeah. -Wow.
I hadn't thought of it that way.
-A final question. We're running short on time.
I would love real quick your bounce on crystals.
-Well, they're simply not a joke,
if that's what you're going for, Seth.
Perhaps you think I'm going to mock them.
You know, Kate will have a little jab here and there.
No, no. We accept and embrace crystals,
you know, as a modality like any other.
I've gifted Kate a crystal.
I'll be gifting you one, as well.
-True. -You know, to mock crystals
is humiliation of its own, and we won't go there, you know?
-Okay. -I think more is more
is really the approach here, you know?
And if you think something's working, it is --
maybe -- and that's good enough for me, at least.
-Well, this has been a real education.
Thank you both for being here. It's a delight to see you.
I really do hope next time it's in person.
You guys, subscribe to "POOG" wherever you get your podcasts.