Is risk five over height.
Question mark.
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here today.
Gordon Chang with PC World.
Here we are at copy checks 2023 and of course we're in Silverstone's booth,
but I want to talk about something that always
I always hear from a lot of the fans all the time, and that is risk by fans
because you can't mention x86 or ARM Without Risk
super superfans or fanboys chiming in the comments saying something about
you should be talking about risk five So I have Dr.
Ian Cutter's tic tac potato, by the way, go over there, like to describe
click the bell so you get those notifications.
But Dr.
Ian Kutcher is going to explain to me his risk.
Five overhyped.
And why does everybody keep bringing it up?
It's we have a very vocal minority, but I think risk five is important
for the industry.
It's we've had this dichotomy for so long x86
income's this relatively new player
is still very nascent in its design, but they have established a very strong,
very passionate community around this instruction
set that you can modify which hat.
It's a double edged sword, right?
People are looking at risk five as the royalty free
version of ARM, especially in the microcontroller space.
And with that, they can go ahead and add things like specific instructions
to the architecture, build an architecture, build a chip,
and then type that out, put it in a product.
The problem with that is the fragmentation, right?
Arm's kind of had this issue with fragmentation.
The ARM business model is really to sell you a core or an architecture license
and you can build whatever microarchitecture you want out of it.
And there's that level of fragmentation that could come from that arm created,
at least in the cyber space, a standard called SBC three,
which allows everybody who's making a server chip
essentially has to build to that standard and software can guarantee
to run on any chip that supports that standard with risk.
Five, it's very different. There is no equivalent.
There are some sort of standards
with regard to the instruction set, but if you're doing something really custom
use case, that's where the fragmentation lies.
However, that may not matter.
So I said risk five microcontrollers.
That's where it's missing most of the use.
Right now we're talking
just the a little core inside your SSD that does management.
Nobody's ever going to see that or program that aside from the people
developing it.
And that's kind of the area where we're seeing these risk five cores go into.
Now, nobody's doing a large scale commercially available.
Anybody can program for it. Risk five Design.
I've seen the guys at SCI five who license IP they've built in dev boards
that people can use with their course, you know, in that runs Linux
and you can find videos
that I've got one of those boards is still in its box sorry James
but if you're just
speaking about that purely embedded, nobody will ever program for it.
Market Then it makes perfect sense because you're saving money.
You're building arguably a smaller core, which may be at lower power,
and you can get it to do exactly what you want with no overheads
that may come with a cortex, M0 or an edge
zero plus we're starting to see risk.
Five hit the extreme performance level.
There are two main companies to be careful of.
One is ten Start headed up by Jim Keller.
Yeah, he's made chips for AMD Apple,
Tesla, Intel.
The other one is called Ventana Micro.
They're both doing these sort of massive 100
plus core high performance chips.
I can speak a lot more to a ten star
because know for full clarification, they are one of my clients,
but they've hired the guy who built Apple M1, one of the lead CPU architects.
So they're going into a market with chips,
with IP and with acceleration all on risk.
Five So we're getting this dichotomy of super high performance, super embedded
microcontrollers and then that eventually whether they will come down to the middle
is questionable as it relates to the modern consumer.
You don't have to worry.
So because it's not coming anytime soon,
it may be in products that you own, but it will never be in products you have,
never be in a software sense, something you have access to for now, embedded.
So basically embedded embedded is fine.
Is you can't see it.
So yeah, but not something you have to like.
I need to install the OS on. No, no.
So I mean you could argue smartphone
you never need to install the OS on because it comes pre shipped
and for most people that's their interface point with arm today
unless they buy an apple M1 m2 MacBook
risk five.
If it was going to
come into the consumer market, it would probably come in that same way.
Right?
So we're seeing arm in the data center today two chips like Graviton
three with Amazon, Ampere is two, AMPERE one.
So it's not NVIDIA products that's actually a server company called AMPERE. Oh
five still has that chip.
I think Alibaba has a chip now in the enterprise,
so it's starting to appear there.
But I'm only saying see, you know, notebooks that are windows based,
for example.
Yeah, it's risk by getting there
is still very much a 1015 year process
and it's likely to come from the server side down.
So like and I do want to make sure people understand that because
people don't they don't, they don't understand what arm x86.
You can't just make it. Somebody's got to pay for it.
You got to pay, you have to pay arm, you have to pay either Intel reboot or.
Yeah I guess
is it is is risk really that open that people.
Well yeah so with x86
you have intel and arm defining the architecture and that's fine
with arm you
have arm who are defining what the base architecture is.
Everybody goes in office, the license licenses up the risk side.
You have risk five International, which is more like an industry
consortium of players.
But then you have other companies that are like, say, five or ten star
where you can license IP calls from.
And so there's kind of nobody steering the helm in the same way
that allows it to be open.
It allows especially researchers or companies, again,
in the embedded space to go and decide we want to do this specifically,
and nobody is going to tell us it's wrong as long as it works.
From our point of view, then it works as no a distance education needs to go.
On top of that.
We'd say, if you have an ARM license and you're not paying that extra fee,
I think the whole Qualcomm arm
lawsuit thing that's going on and the threat of arm
changing its licensing fee structure has got people a little worried,
and that's pushing them to look at risk five as alternatives
where they might use arm course.
Also the entity list between the US and China, that's causing
a number of Chinese companies to also look at risk five for their solutions.
So there's a there's more of a push now for risk.
Five than there ever has been or there ever was for ARM.
As a result, we do get a vocal minority talking about it
and it does generate headlines when there's a chip.
Yeah, Intel's making a horse Creek chip that should be available
by the end of the year.
We hope that's in collaboration with CI five Risk
five IP provider for dev platforms.
It's not going to be the latest and greatest CPU.
Intel is actually using it as a way to improve their intel for process
because it's a really tiny chip and you can yield it very well,
but it's a step on the right direction for risk.
Five Adoption.
In some sense, is there a critical use case?
Is there that thing that's going to drive the market?
Probably not.
It's going to be lots of little players doing lots of little things.
And as a consumer, I don't think we necessarily
have to think about it in that sense for a long, long time yet.
Yeah, it's how we think about ARM today.
We may have to think about risk five in, say ten, 15, 20 years. Wow.
But arm's not it.
There are things that the risk five International could do right
such as create universal standards for platforms not yet not there yet.
So it just seems like when you're talking ten years that is in technology
that is I don't even know where we could be in ten years.
So yeah, so existential threat into,
you know, x86 in a way because yeah I will tell you
if you go and read the comments, in fact if you're watching this video now,
I will tell you you say risk five, risk five risk five.
The third time you say it,
Risk five fans will show up as our talking about risk five Mr.
Redmond comes to you is through the mirror.
But I mean, it just sounds like it's
not as imminent as as all the commentators are making it out to be.
It's important for very specific markets and people in those markets is
become a lifeline or a new revenue stream or a way to save money.
So for them, it's really important because we're talking
millions and millions and millions of dollars
for general consumers, not so much.
But then our audience is our mixture of consumers and engineers.
So you're going to get those comments.
Yeah, and I think the other interesting thing to me, because,
you know, arm can get fragmented, it is already there.
It sounds like risk five to get fragmented x86.
It's generally you know you everything runs every word
run slowly but it'll run right Well I mean so in x86 lands
we have situations where different cores support different instructions.
And the question is, is there a full back?
If you have a workflow
that's compiled for maybe five, 12 or some of the new instructions
or maybe something that Intel sports named doesn't,
you know, some of those weird FMA four or whatever they were instructions.
There is some fragmentation there, but by and large, because they have
a strong cross-licensing agreement, you know, through six
or seven or legal implications, they have a cross-licensing agreement.
It means that they're both kind of going along the same tracks,
at least in the arm ecosystem.
Arm can grab its partners by the horns and drags them into a new era.
So for example, they've just gone 64 bit only on their latest new arm.
Courts are going to be in smartphone flagships next year.
Risk five doesn't have a player in that.
Aside from, say, five international itself,
that's not a player that can drag the whole industry by the horns.
And I kind of think that's by design, right,
which will either be the success or the death knell of or
it could be the limiting factor of widespread adoption to it,
but it could make a lot of people very happy.
Right, Because freedom always sounds great and screens in the chaos, right?
That's yeah, Yeah.
That is that's very interesting.
So. Huh so I'm,
I mean it sounds like I don't have to worry about it now
because I'm not going to get a5c or my laptop any day now, but
maybe one day if you're the sole person who plays around on your basic
small form factor
Linux systems, you know, like a system 76, no book or something.
All these small business computers that are coming out sbcs,
we will likely see risk, five based ones of those
running some form of Linux, either you know, maybe a rookie
or an archer or something because they kind of already exist
and that could become a thing.
And you may see workplaces that are you running thin clients
and the thin client is risk five That could very well be a thing for sure.
Oh, Chromebooks, a Chromebook risk.
Both that I think.
Yeah, the point at which it will hit consumers at risk.
Five Right.
There we go. You heard it here first. Yeah, you heard it here.
And actually, I'm going to close this out because he's got stuff to do.
I can't predict 2023, but I want to hear his risk.
Five joke. He's been you want to hear it too.
So it's not a joke really.
It's risk five.
He is the fifth letter of the alphabet, so maybe it's a bit risky,
but I'm bummed
anyway, so check out more cool coverage from Computex 2023.
I'm laughing inside and crying right now.
That's just because you're tired.
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