>>> WELCOME BACK.
JOHN BRENNAN KNOWS MORE THAN A
FEW SECRETS ABOUT MESH, ITS
ALLIES AND ITS ENEMIES.
HE SERVED SIX PRESIDENTS JOINING
THE CIA UNDER JIMMY CARTER,
WORKING IN THE WHITE HOUSE AS
PRESIDENT OBAMA’S HOMELAND
SECURITY ADVISER AND WORKING AT
THE PINNACLE OF THE COMMUNITY
INTELLIGENCE AS DIRECTOR OF THE
CIA.
HE’S OUT WITH A NEW MEMOIR.
HE IS AN NBC NEWS NATIONAL
SECURITY ANALYST.
DIRECTOR BRENNAN, GOOD MORNING.
IT’S GOOD TO SEE PUNISH.
>> GOOD MORNING, SAVANNAH.
THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON.
>> WE’LL TALK ABOUT THE BOOM IN
A
BOOK IN A MOMENT, BUT I HAVE TO
CALL ON YOUR EXPERTISE WHEN WE
TALK ABOUT WHAT’S HAPPENING WITH
THE PRESIDENT AND COVID AND
NATIONAL SECURITY CONCERNS.
WHAT STRIKES BUT THE SITUATION
WE’RE IN RIGHT NOW?
>> FIRST OF ALL, I HOPE DONALD
TRUMP HAS A FULL RECOVERY.
A SPEEDY RECOVERY.
I BELIEVE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
NEED TO HAVE TWO HEALTHY
CANDIDATE NECESSARY THIS
ELECTION.
I AM CONCERNED ABOUT THE
REPORTED SIDE EFFECTS OF SOME OF
THE MEDICATIONS HE’S BEEN TAKING
IN TERMS OF ADDITIONAL
CONFUSION, AGGRESSION,
IMPULSIVENESS.
THE LAST THING WE NEED IS FOR
DONALD TRUMP TO BE MORE
CONFUSED, MORE IMPULSIVE.
BUT I THINK THERE IS GREAT
DISTRACTION AND REOCCUPATION
WITHIN THE WHITE HOUSE ABOUT
DONALD TRUMP’S HEALTH AS WELL AS
THE HEALTH OF THE WHITE HOUSE
STAFF.
SO THEIR ABILITY TO RESPOND
QUICKLY TO A CRISIS, WHETHER IT
BE A DOMESTIC OTHER FOREIGN
CRISIS IS QUESTIONABLE.
SO, THEREFORE, I THINK IT’S
CRITICALLY IMPORTANT FOR THE
PERSON WHO HAS THE SECURITY OF
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IN HIS HANDS
TO BE FOCUSED AND TO BE ABLE TO
DEAL WITH THE MATTERS OF STATE
THAT WE EXPECT THE PRESIDENT OF
THE UNITED STATES TO DEAL WITH.
>> IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, DOES A
FOREIGN ADVERSARIES, A HOSTILE
ACTOR, SOMEBODY WHO WANTS TO
STIR UP A RUCKUS LOOK AT
SOMETHING LIKE THIS AND SEE
OPPORTUNITY?
WE ALWAYS TALK ABOUT IT AS A
THEORY, BUT DOES THAT REALLY
HAPPEN?
>> WELL, ABSOLUTELY.
I AM CERTAIN THAT FOREIGN
INTELLIGENCE SERVICES, FIRST OF
ALL, HAVE TURNED UP THEIR
COLLECTION SYSTEMS TO HIGH, TO
TRY TO GET BETTER INSIGHT INTO
WHAT IS HAPPENING BEHIND THE
SCENES AND WHAT THE TRUE HEALTH
CONDITION OF DONALD TRUMP IS.
SECONDLY, I THINK OUR FOREIGN
ADVERSARIES, WHETHER IT BE
RUSSIA, CHINA, IRAN OR OTHERS
WILL SEE WHETHER OR NOT THERE IS
THE OPPORTUNITY NOW TO TAKE
ADVANTAGE OF THIS PREOCCUPATION
SO THAT WILL CHINA DO SOMETHING,
FOR EXAMPLE, IN HONG KONG OR IS
SOUTH CHINA SEA, WILL RUSSIA TRY
TO DO SOMETHING IN BELARUS, WHAT
HAPPENS IF THERE’S A TERRORIST
ATTACK OVERSEAS?
WILL THEY TRY TO TAKE ADVANTAGE
OF THE DISTRACTION TAKING PLACE
IN WASHINGTON ON TOP OF THE
CAMPAIGN WHICH IS A TIME FOR
REOCCUPATION OF THE POLITICAL
CANDIDATES, BUT ALSO, I THINK
THIS HEALTH CRISIS IS SOMETHING
THAT I THINK WE HAVE TO BE, YOU
KNOW, CONCERNED ABOUT AND ALL
NATIONAL SECURITY OFFICIALS NEED
TO BE CLEARLY AT THE TOP OF
THEIR GAME DURING THIS PERIOD OF
TIME.
>> DIRECTOR BRENNAN, I THINK
AMERICANS ARE STARTING TO SEE
WHY INTELLIGENCE OFFICIALS LIKE
YOU DON’T GET A LOT OF GREAT
SLEEP AT NIGHT.
SO MANY DIFFERENT WORRIES.
AND ONE OF THEM HAS TO BE THE
UPCOMING ELECTION.
WE ALL KNOW IN 2016, AND YOU
WERE THERE IN THE ADMINISTRATION
WHEN RUSSIA INTERFERED IN OUR
ELECTION ON BEHALF OF DONALD
TRUMP THAT, OF COURSE, IS THE
ASSESSMENT OF THE INTELLIGENCE
AGENCIES.
ARE YOU CONCERNED THAT RUSH
GENTLEMAN AND CHINA, WHO IS SAID
TO PREFER JOE BIDEN ACTUALLY
COULD BE ACTIVELY DOING THAT
AGAIN?
>> WELL, I THINK IN THIS DAY AND
AGE, THE ABILITY FOR FOREIGN
ACTORS, EVEN DOMESTIC ACTORS TO
PUT THINGS INTO THE DIGITAL
DOMAIN, INTO SOCIAL MEDIA TO TRY
TO MISLEAD AND TO TRY TO SHAPE
THE TOOUT ATTITUDES, THE
SENTIMENTS AS WELL AS THE VOTES
OF THE AMERICAN ELECTORATE.
THAT IS A VERY REAL POSSIBILITY
AND LIKELIHOOD BECAUSE IT IS SO
EASY NOW TO PUT INFORMATION INTO
THAT ENVIRONMENT AND FOR
AMERICANS TO BELIEVE IT.
SO I KNOW THAT THE RUSSIAN AND
CHINESE SERVICES ARE VERY, VERY
SOPHISTICATED AND HAVE
TREMENDOUS CAPABILITY IN THAT
CYBER DOMAIN.
THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS I
WROTE IN THE MEMOIR THE RUSSIANS
TOOK IN 2016 TO TRY TO GET
DONALD TRUMP ELECTED.
>> YOU WROTE ABOUT IT
INTENSITILY IN THE BOOK NOW.
KNOWING WHAT YOU KNOW NOW, DO
YOU HAVE ANY REGRETS ABOUT HOW
YOU AND THE ADMINISTRATION
TREATED THAT THREAT, HAVING
KNOWLEDGE OF IT AT THE TIME, BUT
I KNOW THERE WAS A LOT OF,
ACCORDING TO THE BOOK, A LOT OF
DEBATE WITHIN THE ADMINISTRATION
ABOUT HOW MUCH TO REVEAL AND
WHAT STEPS TO TAKE.
>> YEAH.
YOU KNOW, 2020 HINDSIGHT ALWAYS
SEEMS TO BE A BIT CLEARER THAN
WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE HEAT OF
CRISIS.
WHEN I LOOK BACK ON IT NOW, YES,
WE CONSIDERED DIFFERENT TYPES OF
OPTIONS.
WE THOUGHT ABOUT GOING AFTER
RUSSIA WITH OUR OWN TYPE OF
CYBER ATTACK OR BEING ABLE TO
SENT A CLEAR SIGNAL TO MOSCOW
THAT THEIR INTERFERENCE IN THE
ELECTION WAS UNACCEPTABLE AND
THAT WE HAD CAPABILITIES OF OUR
OWN SHOULD WE CHOOSE TO USE
THEM.
WE DIDN’T WANT TO GET INTO A
SPIRAL OF ATTACKS ON THE EVE OF
A HOTLY CONTESTED ELECTION.
SO PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS TRYING TO
ENSURE THAT HE AND WE UNDERSTOOD
WHAT THE RUSSIANS WERE DOING,
TRYING TO DETER THEM FROM DOING
ANYTHING THAT MIGHT AFFECT THE
VOTE TALLY.
BUT IT IS REALLY QUITE DIFFICULT
TO STOP ANY KIND OF ACTOR,
FOREIGN OR DOMESTIC, FROM
ENGAGING IN THIS MISLEADING
INFORMATION OPERATIONS THAT THEY
PUT INTO THAT CYBER DOMAIN.
SO LOOKING BACK ON IT NOW, THERE
WERE A SERIES OF FACTORS, I
THINK, THAT LED TO DONALD
TRUMP’S ELECTION, BUT I
CERTAINLY BELIEVE THAT RUSSIAN
INTERFERENCE PLAYED A VERY
IMPORTANT AND SIGNIFICANT ROLE
IN, IN FACT, HAVING HIM EMERGE
VICTORIA, AT LEAST IN THE
ELECTORAL COLLEGE.
>> JOHN BRENNAN, THE DIRECTOR OF
THE BOOK COVERS A LOT OF
DIFFERENT TOPICS.
IT’S CALLED "UNDAUNTED."
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