hello and welcome to ways to change the
world I'm Kristin guru-murthy and this
is the podcast in which we talk to
extraordinary people about the big ideas
in their lives and the events that have
helped shape them what do they believe
what turns them on and how do they feel
about the world around them and my guest
today is a comedian ivo graham i thought
we don't have many comedians on this
show and normally when we do i'm able to
say you know so-and-so from X or
whatever it is but the world of comedy
has changed so much I can just say I
program and you may have seen you on
YouTube or on TV or on podcasts that's
exactly the sort of thing it's just a
bit of a random spread of stuff but not
an extraordinary person I'd have to nip
that in the bud immediately I hope
signed oh I mean it's it's very nice to
sit at this table with you and be
treated as if my take on the world and
how to change it is of any worth
whatsoever but I'm 29 and I'm a stand-up
comedian and I think both of those
things invalidate me quite a lot on the
contrary I mean the fact that you're a
stand-up comedian means people want to
know you'll take on things
well yeah increasingly I'm not entirely
sure I'm comfortable with that this
sense that I mean I do I see the value
of ideas conveyed through jokes often
being very subtle ways to get into
people's heads and often far more
effective than a slightly drier
discourse but I don't think that I any
of the stuff that I've done has really
moved things along in any of the big
areas but maybe that's still to come
what is your comedy mean you know you're
not a political comedian oh yeah I mean
what are you an observational comedian
I'd have to say it's a mixture of I've
you know lots of different things but
rooted essentially around autobiography
it's always autobiography it's either
the bravest or the laziest I think form
of stunts we can do and in my case it's
probably the latter because every year I
trudged back up to the end of a fringe
and I do another hour basically about
what's been going on over the last year
and how it's made me feel and I enjoy
that because it becomes a form of diary
keeping almost and and a form of
self-examination and then other stuff
comes off the
Bittan there's usually a bit of topical
stuff that was happening in the world
and you know observational comedy is
such a hard thing to do if you get even
close to one of those you know you know
what it's like when moments you know
you've struck real pay dirt but I don't
have too much of that I had a bit about
wireless headphones which I thought was
quite relatable a couple of years ago
but they're they're few and far between
but there's a lot more in your own life
I mean which I find it extraordinary
actually because you know and you're
very lucky then to find that much in
your own life that you can write about
because I'm constantly asked not
constantly but regularly asked you know
by publishers and things you know to
write a book yeah and I'm I'm so scared
of writing a bad book and I kind of
think my life isn't that interesting you
know it's not interesting enough yet mmm
to write a book and I'm nearly 50 mmm
for you to be able to me understanding
your point rather than agreeing with you
to be able to mine your own life on a
pretty much daily basis to come up with
new material that's great well yeah I
suppose so
I think it but the crucially it's the
fact that I've been able to make an
hour's worth of it funny every year and
then divide it up into the 10 or 20
minute chunks on a you know every night
of the week that's the main thing it's
not that my life is such an interesting
story it has to be told it's that I've
worked with these quite rudimentary raw
materials and thought a lot about any
sort of angle I can put on top of them I
do think that I went to eat and freaks
for example well not really for example
it's the only example and the main thing
I went to Eton as a teenager for five
years and that it became very obvious to
me very early on that that was something
quite potent to explore partly cuz I
think teenagers in general as such
nostalgic thing to go over oneself and
also quite a nostalgic thing for people
to listen to because it reminds me a bit
of their own formative hormonal
nightmares and but particularly a
teenage years spent in this institution
which has so much about at which people
find interesting or problematic or
downright offensive and learning how to
work with that I also then went to
Oxford which is obviously also some way
an incredible privilege but actually
after Eton
that's basically a throwaway you know
instead of people say you know talking
about your university well I've sort of
you know eaten basically covers it in
the whole you know I'm a [ __ ] scale but
you you decided to sort of you know come
out you know as an Eastern boy quite
early on in fact to be honest the first
time somebody draw drew my attention to
you they said you know that you know
he's he's really funny he does this
whole thing about how he went to Eton
yeah well I mean that's that's very nice
of whoever that was please pass on my
thanks for spreading the word and yeah I
think I did realize and and you you know
it is you know ultimately not cynical
but you know that's how it works
you know it's good to feel can't say
anything about what your act about
rather than just he's just another and
particular sort of young male stand-up
of which there are so many having any
sort of USP at all and being able to
then explore the experience and sort of
play with stereotypes and I certainly
started off leaning on some quite lazy
sort of boarding school stereotypes and
sort of rogue teachers etc where it's
actually at a disappointingly sort of
innocent time at school actually but you
can you can ramp up that sort of thing I
remember doing for about a year doing
stand-up where I talked about being posh
because I knew I sounded portion if I
had to acknowledge that and then I'd say
I went to an all-boys boarding school
because that immediately comes up at
certain amount of stuff and say things
like I went to an all-boys boarding
school I'm not ashamed at it you know
made me who I am today
insecure repressed and very good at
ancient Greek and stuff like that it
comes quite easily to write and makes
quite a lot of sense immediately to
people but Eton was the one that felt
for a while like well but I couldn't
actually say that because they people
would laugh at all boys boarding school
we're still just hate Eton did you
actually learn to do comedy at school no
he's not at all I was I think that's
where I developed a sort of fantasy
about it because it was so attached you
know bit being funny
anywhere but particular school is so
attached to be popular and being
confident and the class clown no not at
all and there were some and and there
still you know a bit like bit like a
sort of you know a boy who was bigger
than you as B
or two years old and you as a teenager
will with somehow always if you at the
same school will somehow always be
superior to you in your mind
similarly occasional bump into people
who were those you know very dominant
social figures and women now as are
adults and despite the fact that you
know I've got a bit of something at my
own going on I'm still absolutely
deferring to them as well listen
it--every everything I ever learnt was
from sitting silently at the back of a
history class and watching you amusingly
you know try to throw mr. Proctor off
track and there were there were funny
people and it was an environment that
really turned that into a hierarchy
quite quick and very surprised that
you've become a delightfully upfront
about how how utterly surprising they
found it but then there are other people
you know a couple of friends artists
teenagers actually usually people
outside of school were the ones I really
started to try and like make laughs
probably because it was outside of
school everything was you know how it's
set in stone at school if you're you
know if you're popular at 13 you're
popular at 18 and if you're popular if
you're unpopular 13 you're on pottery is
there's very little social mobility in
between whereas other friends I made
sort of you know midway through that
process you know okay maybe I'll try in
a slightly different identity maybe I'll
be a bit bolder and they boosted my
confidence and then I went to university
didn't know anyone and that was where I
started stand-up and then it slightly
snowballed from now and then I did the
Edinburgh Fringe a couple of times while
I was a student and by the time I'd
finished it University I was lucky
enough to have an agent and a few gigs
in the diary that I was getting paid for
so it was just about a vulnerable career
opportunity from then and when you
started that sort of that first gig
mm-hmm I mean you'd written it all had
you yeah I mean it was only five minutes
these which obviously when you've never
done it is yes and also stand-up comic
it's it's amazing how quickly a funny
comedy set can expand and how much the
unfunny one can can contract
timewise and you know to this day it's
amazing how you're having a good time in
a gig and maybe an anecdotes going well
and so you're sort of throwing in little
details you don't even plan to and
you're chip you're chatting to the
audience and that sort of going
and suddenly you look at your watching
you realize it's it's time to go and
you've you know evenly done harm for a
third of what you meant to or you are
having a terrible time you were just
rushing through your plan you are sort
of mentally eliminating every you know
you in your in your head you've got
you've got the old reliables and the
sort of supporting materials you've got
you've got the big punchlines and you
got the stuff that if people really like
you they might laugh about as well and
as soon as you start dying all of the
smaller bits just go immediately and so
your your set becomes you know goes from
ten minutes to five minutes and then you
and then you under run then that
obviously creates its own problems
because you've been unprofessional and
you've undone what you promised you do
but you have to get off when you're
seven minutes has done deal because I've
watched a couple of your videos on
online and this is striking that's quite
often comedians would just stop right
you just tell a joke and then you go and
that's probably enough for me goodbye
yeah well I mean the problem is you're
often working within quite tight spaces
and you're getting lights flashed at you
and I mean it would be a beautiful thing
if you could end the comedy set exactly
at the point where everyone in the
audience feels it should end everyone
you know like a dinner party who
everyone's had exactly the right amount
of food and they're all sated and
delighted but the fact is that there'll
be some people who are quite enjoying it
and feel it's a bit abrupt and if some
people wanted you go about ten minutes
ago
so you are I suppose all you can really
do is try and end on your best bit and
your biggest laugh because that creates
a natural finale you'll often see people
saying before the last bit saying oh
maybe you know and this is the you know
and I'll leave you with this or I'm one
last thing I'll tell you about this and
that's you know one of these shameless
little psychological tricks of
essentially reassuring people either
reassuring the ones who are hating it
that don't worry it'll be over soon so
if anything maybe try and enjoy this one
because it's your last chance or if
people are enjoying it a great deal just
saying well this is your last chance to
really lean into it because the worst
thing is to suddenly rush it or to
suddenly botch it and disappear and then
leave people with that slight sense of
as you say god that was a bit weird did
he did
upset you know is it we did we do
something wrong but then to do it in too
much of a slick package I think can look
just a tiny bit too rehearsed
have you had comedy mentors every night
you get a different mentor usually
because you share a dressing room and
often a car journey with different
people there's four of you on a bill you
know three or four of you will go
together to save on petrol and so you
get immediately thrust into these
constantly rotating environments of
people with totally different
backgrounds and life stories and
particularly serve the gig has been you
know
well booked to reflect a range of life
stories otherwise it's just me and my
three other Oxbridge chums but I'm
particularly nice starting and I was 18
or 19 it wasn't just the introduction to
the world of comedy was the introduction
just to adulthood in general that I was
suddenly getting the wisdom the optimism
the pessimism the weariness of people
who had worked and lived for 20 years
more than me and some of them would
lecture you in a slightly condescending
or vicarious way some of them wouldn't
really talk to you at all
some of them would just enjoy that
slightly avuncular role you beat so it's
it's it's an unbelievably supportive
industry that's really that was one of
the best things about it I think because
that's not what you'd expect at all no
people want it to be [ __ ] as hell I
think there is resentment jealousy
insecurity bubbling beneath the surface
and not too far from it in a lot of
cases and I think there is backstabbing
and bitching in some cases I've never of
course spoken ill of a fellow
professional but I know it happens what
happens dangerous encrypted medium but
broadly and it's fundamentally I think
everyone recognizes that everyone's
trying to do the same thing and
recognizes that there are many harder
jobs in the world obviously than being a
comic but there is something quite
unique in its potential to be
demoralizing on a daily basis
so there is that that kinship I think
and the Utley which which can almost
become a slight snobbery you know you'll
hear comics occasionally referring to
non comics as muggles which is I mean
again it's it's not it and that's not
even that's not meant to say often you
know they're for worse they don't
possess the wizarding powers that we do
with our ability to make thirty people's
laugh underneath a pub a short period of
time I think it's often more just a
byword for you know just not a comic but
it's something I would be loath to be
caught doing without quite a heavy
dollop of irony because we really are
just the same so there are there are
there are comedians what's up groups are
there yeah I'd like to hope that there's
not too much overlap in the topics and
viewpoints being expressed as in the ERG
what subgroup certainly a lot Francois
doesn't pop up in in in many of my group
chats but it's again to be honest it's a
source of great comfort fundamentally
because you're on a nightly basis aside
from any slightly more confidential
stuff you're really just comparing the
experience of traveling around the
country gigging it's a nice place to be
able to come off after a gig and moan to
people who you're not going to feel
guilty about moaning to because they
will either have just had the same
experience or I've had it but another
time quite recently and you have to pick
your audiences I mean you know can you
can you do all the working men's clubs
and the comedy clubs sort of with equal
confidence or absolutely want I think
I'd like to be able to do as many of
them as possible because I think the
more different kind of gigs you can
excel in the more rounded your persona
be more the more versatile you are but
of course there are certain you know a
lovely art center is hard to beat for
the kind of slightly this is
self-important but undeniably keen and
beyond tell it will attract whereas the
harder gigs are often where people have
just gone because anything's on they are
all because it's the prelude
to a big Friday or Saturday night on the
lash all not even the prelude its Midway
let's go on be funny then it's gonna be
funny exact make me laugh and ultimately
I don't really care anyway and if you're
not funny after two minutes I'm going to
the bar because as someone else on
anyway and this isn't what this is
really about and and again you know I've
no I think comics can often talk to
snootily about that sort of thing we all
want to get drunk on a Friday night and
you know I've been in you know
situations where I've been a bad
audience in things because you just
that's how life happens sometimes or
you're part of a group booking where
someone has taken upon themselves to put
all 15 of you to something you don't
want to do it's just that's particularly
uncomfortable when it's comedy because
it is something that people can decide
very quickly they're not enjoying and
can then disrupt very easily by even
just a quiet bit of chattering or just
the production projection with some
negative energy and I've been on stag do
committees where someone else has said
Oh tell you a fun thing we could do is
go and watch some comedy maybe before we
go to infernos and I've fed and I've had
to say this and I don't I don't want to
be the pro faced comedian in the group
but these are my fellow professionals
and it's it's pretty much every
comedians worst nightmare having 15
people in the stage when the audience
and I could not in good conscience have
co-organized that trip and be and be
potentially even you know if it's been a
very nice afternoon the Biergarten
breaking my own rules and and heckling
myself so it's heckling terrible I mean
it sort of is what's your I think belief
on heckling that the party line krishnan
and we and we must stick to it is that
it it's it's not good it's making the
night about you if you're the heckler
and I think the important thing cause I
often when it when a quip when a
comedian will say that it looks very
like you know easily offended snowflake
comedian can't handle someone chipping
in
it's not but actually it's not it makes
the night about you the heckler rather
than but me the
Arius professional it's actually more
it's everyone else in the audience who's
paid and they put babysitters and
they've you know some of them really
look forward to stages potentially and I
don't mean that with girls of my gigs I
think people barely thought about my
gigs until the minute they're there but
but I've been gigs as a fan I remember I
saw mark Watson who's I think is great
and again has been a bit of her guru
over the years and I saw him at
university at the Playhouse in Oxford
and he was being heckled by someone and
he was being very funny with it very
quick and very self-effacing at in
response tacklers in a way that I find
very charming and abut though what was
happening was funny there was a bit of
impatience Anders and someone else just
shouted out we came here to listen to
you and they were ripped they were you
know obviously complaining about the
heckler but they were also slightly
reprimanding about what's gonna go stop
giving this personally the oxygen of
because because you you know you've
presumably got some anecdotes of your
own and we and we want to hear them
because we love you and and and the
pre-prepared stuff is usually the best
that all being said I really enjoy
improvising on stage and being on the
back foot and I think it's maybe
something to do with feeling like
because of where I come from and because
of how I sound there's something
inherently a little bit pompous about
about me and there's something very
self-important about stand-up in general
you know listen to me in silence for I
am there and the you know and the funny
one I think there's also the thing that
I even though I'm very proud of my
material if you're anything like me I'm
either the material slight too old and
I'm a bit bored of it and I'm ashamed
that I'm still doing that material or
it's too new and I'm not confident
enough with a and I know it's not good
enough and it's very you know that the
golden period of material being finished
ready and good to go but but but still
fresh is is alarmingly short in my case
a lot of the time so if someone
interrupts that sort of solves all of
those problems at once because a real
moment is happening live that I have no
control over
and and I'm on the backfoot so so Eton
boys got a deal with a real challenge
now he's not wrapped up in cotton wool
anymore he's been heckled at Manchester
Comedy Store and then anything you can
say back becomes doubly funny because
you're emotionally punching up where
it's the whole thing about you know
doing comedy from my position is
worrying about you looking at your
punching down I mean you're you're very
sort of self-effacing a sort of sort of
you know you talk about all the sort of
advantage and privilege with certain
sort of embarrassment are you really
embarrassed about it or is it is that a
sensitivity to the people around you um
I think it is a sensitivity to of course
because you because you you come over as
almost a sort of his lacking in
confidence but you can't be known I used
to think that I was and actually it's
funny cutting because comedy was it was
the escape from not feeling very
confident at a certain period in my life
being funny socially with certain
friends when I was a teenager and then
with more friends at university and then
making that my thing and and getting
laughs on stage which is obviously a
great feeling until you become numb to
it and life becomes misery but that that
was that was great and topics that I
talked about were teenage fireballs lack
of romantic interest that sort of thing
so uh talking I got good at talking
about the things that I was insecure
about and then those were the things
that then made me funny on and off stage
and then that became the root of my
self-worth so I felt that I'd sort of
owned that and now while I think I'm
being very sincere when I talk about
things I'm not entirely comfortable out
about my past where I come from I know
that I am fundamentally wielding a
certain degree of assurance now I know
that my stand-up goes down well most of
the time and as partly because I'm lucky
that increasingly I played to an
audience who've come to see me and on
tour in London or at the Fringe so I
think I think self-deprecation is as
much to do with firstly not to come
across as unlikable to new people who
are coming across you but it's also to
keep
self in check I think because if you've
had a good life and a nice life and and
beyond feeling at times a little bit
underappreciated at school which is not
a you know particularly a traumatic
thing paavana I've had a pretty great
life and then you become a stand-up
comedian and that goes relatively well
relatively quickly and you're able to
earn a living from that then of course
you're gonna start going maybe I've
maybe I've worked all of this out
actually so because you don't have to be
you know like this you know I mean if
you think about the time we live in
right now mmm I mean you know your tribe
hmm are in the ascendancy right yes it's
not it's not something to be embarrassed
about because people have embraced it
and well it is interesting that it I do
what do you mean sort of it Etonians for
example yeah I mean I think that I do
obsess I think too much about having to
get get the apology and for going to eat
and immediately because you just think
about what a loaded word it is where
it's actually most people will just
think well it's that's what that's one
bit of evidence and we might associate
certain things with a bit of evidence
but we'll take all the other evidence
that you're about to present rather than
me going right now before I say anything
I must let you know that I do hate
myself for having enjoyed this very good
education because actually it's it's
kind of a as much it's a it's a show
don't tell really it can come across as
disingenuous if you do it too much and
actually there is of course a stereotype
of British people being you know and and
people who have globally being
fascinated by it being obsessed with
class you know that the interest in old
institutions that will fuel something
like you know that the Hogwarts World of
Harry Potter this conscious or
unconscious the unconscious deference to
people who sound a certain way which i
think is key to certain people in
politics being able to get away with
what they do despite really quite in
some recent cases quite the projective
levels of incompetence best
looks the part sounds the part thing did
you think there's a difference between
comedy audiences and the rest of real
life you know our comedy audience is
more lefty well that way that's the
thing for example I think because we now
live in a world in which Prince Harry is
being accused of being a left winger yes
by right-wing discarded has woken that's
terrible so it's um it's really quite I
mean obviously there's been a lot of
bleak of late but some of the stuff
coming out of this Harry and Mehcad
stuff is if I may use a bit of
understatement a real shame did you know
him at school no he was um he'd left by
the time I arrived sadly because the
school sounded like a a particularly
fascinating place to be when the
princess is there because you've got you
know bodyguards walking around um I
think the thing is that if you're
judging you mean broadly in life
shouldn't judge anyone for anything and
to Nietzsche confession you should you
should wait for more evidence and that
includes things like you know having had
a certain come to a certain school so
there it may be as I say it's a bit
overactive they need to apologize for it
however the problem is then a lot of the
people that I respect the most my fellow
professionals the people I read the
people I'm like watching the most come
from quite left-wing standpoint they are
progressive thinkers and they you know
promote project you know sort of from a
position of maximum tolerance so those
are very bluntly the ones I want to
impress the most I don't want to do so
in a way that comes across as
disingenuous or to be on look ungrateful
for the life I've had or indeed to lose
the approval of the many well-heeled
family friends who continue to attend my
shows but is it easier to be a left-wing
comic though I mean I mean if you if you
look at the number of successful
conservative or right-wing comedians
there are no it's really small you know
sort of people like Geoff Knorr cut a
hole you know
or carrying an awful lot of weights yes
you know I'd like to you Jeff it's I
know I know it's a burden but a
lucrative because the old-fashioned ones
you know the burn of manning's the Jim
Davidson's that you know they are not
back in fashion no they they're not back
in fashion we're all waiting for the
Manning revival but I think it could be
a while yet I just don't think people
want to hear you know we've we've had
very recent data to remind us of just
how right-wing quite a significant
majority of the British people are
feeling at this moment in time but those
are still you know how you vote is still
an expression of in many people's cases
quite a private self-interest or
conservatism I think they're off it's
not often attached to values you want to
go out and revel in honor honor on a
Saturday night if that makes sense which
is not to say that people can't speak
from that perspective and be very funny
self-aware about it and preached to
converted but if I were to try and it
would just be hateful I think we do live
in very polarized times I think I think
stuff better to use the the most
simplistic and childish summary of
events it is a very scary place of all
right now and I think that's a lot of
that comes from a lot of things being
normalized in common discourse weather
you know and obviously I don't think
stand-up comedy is to blame for a lot of
that but but it is a big part of it I
don't want to be part of that
normalizing force even if I think that
I'm doing it in a way that is funny or
ironic I want to keep a certain distance
from it and it includes a certain
distance from the aspects of my own past
which bear resemblance to it and I want
to do stand-up comedy about my life and
my experiences in a way that I have
total authority over because I don't
want to speak on behalf of anyone else
and I don't want to mouth off about
anything unless I feel very confident
that I know what I'm talking about and
I've got a couple of jokes at the end of
it and that is a criticism that is
occasionally levelled quite legitimately
at certain left-wing comedy that it's
making a point more than it's making a
joke and there are audiences
particularly in these times where those
audiences are despairing and want to go
and feel part of some sort of community
who love that but they are often
agreeing more than they're laughing and
I crave laughter Cressman
does it make you happy I mean I go to
comedy what sort of comedies do great
you know I mean you know kind of what I
want I think having a night of laughter
is really really good for you yeah of
course and that's the thing I think I've
started to I think that's where a lot of
my self-worth has come from as well as
realizing that there is a value to what
I do I think I really did buy into this
sense that even though it's quite cool I
did comedy at uni and people were very
nice about it and found it interesting
that I was still fundamentally throwing
away a chance to do an interesting job
and make a change in the world and
particularly you come from institutions
which do pave the way to get in those
interesting jobs perhaps more unfairly
easily than others you go and I'm
throwing that all the way to do comedy
and then you realize not just from your
own experience watching through people
what people say after gigs sometimes how
nice it is for people how escapist it is
and how much value you provide I don't
mean that in a sense of that it's still
up there with with certain other things
but it's not a complete waste yeah I
used to have this round with my diagram
because I started working when I was at
Oxford as well in television and I was
gonna be a medic and then I went into
journalism and my dad who's a medic we
used to have these arguments the worth
of what I would be doing as opposed to
what I could have been doing and you
know it came down to it an argument one
day weren't you in which he said oh you
know I saved somebody's life today what
did you do you go okay fine you win I
can't you know I can't compete with that
but there's no doubt that what you do is
valuable and what is it what did your
dad sort of make of your career is as it
as it progressed thinks what I do is
fantastically valuable I mean you know
he's perfectly proud of me now but um
but no I mean I think you know I mean I
choose to go out you know not you know
almost deliberately to comedy you know
when we kind of think God I need laughs
yes you know and and you come back and
you've barely laughed for a bit
and you feel better it is you know
that's why you have those weird
therapies of courses where people tell
you to laugh yes if you're not actually
experiencing anything funny which is
just weird but yeah I mean that I don't
know how therapeutic I've found it
myself to do it but it's a lovely to
think it's a very it's a break from
everything else yeah how do you think
comedies going to go now given the
social times we live in I mean you know
in the 80s you know we had the political
response to the politics at the time and
alternative comedy and Ben Elton and
that whole generation the young ones and
that whole generation of people who are
kicking against the dominant politics at
the time I think it's a lot harder to do
that social media and the incident
response of people who are opposed to
those kinds of thoughts you know I just
wonder whether actually its comedy also
going to be sort of cowered in this
environment that we're in and sort of
revert to sort of let's stay away from
politics because that's too difficult -
I mean did you deliberately stay away no
I mean Yeah right don't I've had in the
last couple of shows that I've done I've
had bits about because there's always a
bit about going to eat and that's part
of the set menu and increasing that does
relate to it onehans in the public eye
you know and and Boris Johnson being
Prime Minister is there are things that
are fundamentally depressing about that
and there are things that are still it
amidst a depression still funny about it
and I feel that I have a good route into
that so I will talk about it and and
we'll probably do so again this year but
I think you're just aware that you don't
want to look as I say like you're
trivializing things particularly if you
at river light trivializing the
real-world consequences of stuff from
which you're still largely insulated as
a lovey as a posh show as a Londoner do
you not I mean I think constant checking
a privilege can be a bit exhausting but
you just have to get that in there I'd
have enough self-awareness not not to
look completely out of touch and I think
that will be a challenge for comedians
who want to play that Center ground I
think there is more and more of an audio
for people who want to speak to the
opposite ends of the spectrum I think
there is a lot of left-wing comedy which
is some of the best comedians in the UK
are doing it
and also some of the most interesting
topical voices and there's an overlap
there but can be as we've said kind of
just polemics for people who want a
polemic and then you've also got this
new world of self-appointed
controversial comedy which is not always
right-wing but I think there's quite
heavy overlaps between the sort of
topics and the and the attitude to them
between that sort of right-wing things
in general and that has its audience and
it's an increasingly gleeful audience
because partly because of the many
victories the right-wing are striking at
the moment and also because there is
this narrative and slightly self-serving
narrative of those sorts of comics
saying the unsayable and those audiences
listening to things that really
shouldn't be being said and so they're
all getting off on that and in the
middle you've got a you know people just
trying to provide a nice escapist night
out for everyone and that is both Noble
in a way it's also the most cynical
approach because obviously we're all
just trying to make a bit of money and
you want to be able to appeal to as many
people as possible all at the same time
I suspect you're shy away from our
traditional last question which is if
you could change the world how would you
change the world maybe you won't well I
probably will shy away from the aspects
of it that which overlap with what we're
talking talking about partly cuz I've
just I've just waffled on quite enough
about that I do you know would I I'm
very scared by the way the world is
going because I does feel like equality
on a lot of levels is being compromised
and challenged and while progress is
being made this use of woken us as as
this stick to beat things with is
becoming increasingly effective in
shutting down sort of progressive voices
and it's better if you're asleep yeah
just stay asleep particularly if you you
know if you're white and
so I think that I obviously would like
to see of world with a as much focus of
inequality as much shutting down of hate
speech and as much rapid environmental
policy change but I think on a more
personal but still sort of broadly
useful human level I did a tweet a year
or so ago which got I would say medium
traction which said it should cost a
hundred pounds to start a whatsapp group
and that's a policy that I would that I
would feel confident as I say I can't
say here's what we need to do about
climate change or about international
policy because I don't know enough but I
do know that we are being harmed and our
brains are being destroyed and our
attention spans have been destroyed by
the constant ability to have banter
burbling away in our pockets all of the
time I'm not saying it's great it's not
fantastic to have that option but having
some barrier to just constantly creating
new banter I think and to have to think
is it really worth it to start up this
umpteenth version of the same group chat
for us all to just exist on all of the
time and maybe there could be a
counterbalancing thing where you're you
receive a financial bonus for sending a
letter I'm a big fan of the written
incredibly pompous the big fan of the
written word Christian and I did a lot
of stand-up comedy about writing thank
you that is when I was a teenager which
was part of my quite lonely brand and
some way to slow down the pace of
technological obsession and to slightly
protect the old world of slightly more
charming traditional correspondence
would be something I would love to see
in the world although let's let's what
less less what's up you two let's
whatsoever about it no that's that's a
grand thank you very much indeed
thank you have ammunition and sharing
sort of your ways to change the way to
change your worlds yes the way the ways
I am existing within my world I
but yes thank you thank you for coming
in I hope you enjoyed that if you did
then please do give us a rating and a
review you can watch all of these
interviews on the Channel 4 News YouTube
channel our producer is rachel evans
until next time bye bye