key joining us now to discuss these
massive topics
maria bartoromo host of mornings with
maria
and charles payne host of making money
with
charles payne uh thank you kids you're
wonderful to come on and share this
you know maria i want to begin with you
because i want to go to jfk's quote
about discouragement or encouragement
and one of my biggest problems one of my
biggest issues with the biden group
is it seems to me whether it's jobs
investment prosperity growth they want
to discourage
not encourage and i cannot understand
why
what's your take well larry i think it's
an ideology
i will add my own quote to your
beautiful portfolio of quotes and my
quote would be
as you probably have heard me say before
money is
mobile and it will go where it is
treated best i say it all the time
because that is exactly what we see
as a result of changes in tax rates and
that's what is likely
once again if we do in fact see these
excessive rates that the biden
administration is talking about
i do think that this idea of pay your
fair share
uh the one percent the rich need to pay
more
plays well with the populace and i think
it's been working
for the democrats for many years and
they just continue using it
even if it is tired the bottom line is
it does impact the fortunes
of american families and we will see
another migration
depending on where we're talking about
these taxes hitting
we could see corporations take
acquisitions do acquisitions and move
their
corporate headquarters out of america we
could see certainly the migration
among states that we have already been
seeing people moving out of high tax
states to low
tax states the bottom line is we are
going to see an
impact from all of these higher taxes on
the horizon
because money is mobile well money is
mobile that's a great fit
and by the way we're always competing in
the global race for capital
that's for sure and we're always
competing among the states
money is mobile among the states as
we've learned uh
during the pandemic with new york to
florida but charles payne let me go to
you
i don't understand charles i just don't
get this
why anybody any government
of a democracy would want to
punish success rather than reward it
i don't understand that and even though
president biden said in his state of the
union
he sort of said i don't want to punish
success of course he does
because the fact is the wealthiest
people
should be praised they shouldn't be
attacked and also
they pay by far the most in taxes
yeah you know the the top one percent uh
pay
a larger percentage of overall taxes
than the income that they bring in so
that's a fact to your point
but you also started this larry by
talking about this commitment to
waging class warfare that means you've
got to have different levels of classes
if everyone were to start to be upwardly
mobile
if everyone were able to go ahead and go
after the american dream
either internally because they thought
they could make it or because
all of the speed bumps that are put in
front of them were removed
then there would be no classes to
compete or pit against each other
that's the irony of it the prescriptions
to these problems
have to keep the problems going because
it's all about power
it has never ever been about economics
perhaps going back to the 1930s fdr
obviously you can argue there
but certainly over the last several
decades this has been about a
consolidation of power
and to do that you have to create one
person or one entity on one side that is
the so-called rich the wealthy
who don't pay their fair share you know
last week i was getting ready for a
segment with art laffer
so i listened to jimmy carter's infamous
malay speech
uh july 15th to uh 19
1979 it was amazing
if you look at the work if you if you
just close your eyes and just listen or
just read the transcript
it would sound like any speech that
comes from biden any speech that
president obama gave
there was even a commitment to have 15
percent of 20
of our energy uh coming from solar by
the year 2000
it was the same thing one it was they
have a blueprint there's a villain
that villain is taking advantage of you
the american public
and we'll ride to the rescue give us the
power give us the tools
and ironically when they're given that
power when they're given that tools what
happens
the poor get poorer you know um
i appreciate this rallying cry and maria
it's just i'm looking at um
chris edwards from the cato foundation
very smart fellow
tax expert he just gave some testimony
before congress
and he used um numbers from the
brookings institute not a supply-side
place the brookings institute okay it's
left of center and so forth and he says
look
the highest earners have an average tax
rate that is twice those
in the middle and almost 10 times the
rate of those
at the bottom that's from the brookings
institute he didn't make those numbers
up
and so i was wondering maria in order to
change this from
prosperity creating to prosperity
killing
which is partly an act of persuasion
what about using
factoids what about factoids like this
or factoids like unemployment how low it
got during the trump years
and how the minorities benefit in other
words to some extent maria
this has been a fact-free argument it
seems to me
and um folks like us need to change that
don't we
well you know what larry don't forget
right before kovid
showed up we were talking about the tax
cuts and
uh deregulation of 2017
under president trump actually moving
the needle on
income inequality this has been the
issue that democrats have
cried over for decades income inequality
and for the first time in decades
actually lower taxes did the trick
and actually saw the bottom earners see
their
wages move higher at a better pace than
the top earners
and what happened the mainstream media
did not report it you heard
a lot of it here on fox business you
heard a lot of it on fox news and in the
wall street journal
but it was largely ignored that is a
major
fact and a result of the tax cut plan of
2017
and it was ignored so we could certainly
be a part of that
rallying cry talk about the facts the
results of
tax movements but you also have to have
a willing media to report the facts
well looking 50-year low unemployment
the poverty rate went down as you say
the inequality
rate went down the genie coefficient
went down
the biggest people the biggest benefits
were
typical family of four blue collar
middle class and lower in fact once that
you know pre-pandemic after the tax cut
for 2018 and 2019
a middle-class family had a 65-hundred
dollar
increase okay that's just in that
two-year period
that was longer or higher than the
entire eight years
of obama and biden i mean i think that's
an important fact
and the standard of living got to almost
66 000
for the middle that's unheard of so i
know maria am i being too sticky
if facts matter do fat over here let me
put it to you this way
do facts still matter can we inject
facts
into this debate yes facts do matter and
i also would point out the indirect
impact of all of this as well because
you're raising the corporate rate
because you're talking about the
potential
of a capital gains tax all the way up to
43.4 percent
that will dictate corporate spending and
big investor spending so eventually it
does
trickle down to the little guy and that
person who you might not expect
to get impacted by a 43 and a half
percent capital gains tax so you can't
charles
you can't have a good job without a
healthy business
and you can't have a healthy business or
even a new business
unless someone ponies up some investment
some cash right but it's got to pay off
rate of return after tax so charles
if you're smashing investors this is
like a war against investment
isn't that to maria's point isn't that a
war against workers
isn't that a war against jobs i mean
who's going to pony up the money if the
after-tax rate or return
keeps going down down down because the
tax burden keeps going up up up i
ask you charles payne you know
there is no doubt there's absolutely no
doubt that the messaging is a key issue
here and maria brings up obviously the
point that the outlets there aren't
enough real
outlets and anytime something can be
skewed one way
or another it is skewed that way
negatively i mean almost every time an
economic report comes out
i'm shocked at how the mainstream media
reports it i really am
i think uh conservatives and others who
you know anyone who believes in you know
the low taxes low regulations
uh that the that the economic ladder is
there for everyone
that the message has to be sort of
articulated differently
now i haven't perfected it but it it's
it's all about
making connecting people to their
feelings in other words
when i talk to people about poor
economic times but it was a president
they liked they said but things felt
better
when i go over all the numbers that
we've just gone over they will say yeah
charles but i
felt better we have to be able to show
people connect their feelings to the
fact that
really did you really feel better
because i know you had to feel better
when you started getting a raise i know
you had to feel better when you bought a
new house
i know you had to feel better so it's
all about getting to something a little
bit deeper
i think than just the numbers themselves
but because
pouring those numbers out has not won
the public relations battle
and what we're essentially trying to say
to all of americans is we want to save
this country we want to make it a
country where
everyone has a chance to live out the
american dream and there's a blueprint
for that and once you embrace it not
only you're going to feel great
you're going to be great well maria i'm
going to let you take us out because
i think charles is right about feelings
but i also think numbers are important
but look at
life liberty and the pursuit of
happiness right we are endowed by our
creator with the unalienable rights
rife liberty and the pursuit now i ask
you maria bartaroma
are not people happier when they're
working
and shouldn't we therefore do whatever
we can
to create incentives to let people
invest to start businesses to provide
good jobs and good families that's the
pursuit of happiness
this country is always at its best when
it's happy
and optimistic maria bartoroma i
give it back to you you're absolutely
right and i think that it does have to
do with power
as charles said earlier because this
whole inability
to open up restaurants operate at
full capacity and get back to normalized
living and get back to work
is for some reason a hard situation for
the democrats
look at schools half of them still not
open and i think
it's also one reason that joe biden is
facing
pressure and pushback on these sky-high
plans for massive spending
and high tax rates i would say this
higher taxes are coming
but i don't think he's going to be able
to get all of his dream plans through
given the pushback within his own party
well
hope you're right about that i'd like to
see zero tax increases
i'll just tell you this all these
so-called crises
as we all take our masks off and we all
go back to work
and the economy is growing at 10 or 12
and profits and stocks are booming
and unemployment is coming down i don't
see these crises
and you know what i say to all that if
it ain't broke don't fix it
there's a fella who was president just
before who left a pretty good legacy
if it ain't broke don't fix it all right
kids thank you
bumper sticker you're wonderful trust
payne you're both wonderful thanks ever
so much