BIGGEST BENEFICIARY. BE A LITTLE PATIENT.
>> OKAY.
>> OKAY. WE NOW HAVE A SECRET AUDIO
RECORDING THAT APPARENTLY SHOWS
DONALD TRUMP DISCUSSING PAYMENTS
TO BURY A STORY ABOUT AN ALLEGED
AFFAIR WITH A PLAYBOY PLAYMATE.
TIMING IS EVERYTHING.
PAYMENTS WERE DISCUSSED JUST
BEFORE HE WON THE ELECTION.
THINK ABOUT THAT.
>> TRUMP’S FORMER LAWYER AND
LONG TIME FIXER, MICHAEL COHEN
HAD HIS LAWYER RELEASE THE
AUDIOTAPE PUBLICLY LATE LAST
NIGHT.
NIGHT. WE’RE GOING TO PLAY IT IN A
MOMENT BUT FIRST LET’S SET
THINGS UP FOR YOU.
BECAUSE WE NEED TO TALK MORE
SPECIFICALLY ABOUT TIMING.
MICHAEL COHEN MADE THE AUDIOTAPE
IN SEPTEMBER OF 2016.
THAT IS TWO MONTHS BEFORE THE
PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.
PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION. IT WAS ONE MONTH AFTER THE
"NATIONAL INQUIRER’S" PUBLISHER,
THAT’S AMERICAN MEDIA, BOUGHT
THE RIGHTS TO THE STORY OF
FORMER PLAYBOY PLAYMATE KAREN
McDOUGAL.
McDOUGAL. AMI IS RUN BY DAVID PECKER, A
DEAR, DEAR FRIEND FOR MANY
DECADES OF PRESIDENT TRUMP.
>> WHEN I GOT WITH HIM, THERE
WAS A REAL RELATIONSHIP THERE.
THERE WERE REAL FEELINGS BETWEEN
THE TWO OF US.
THERE WAS A REAL RELATIONSHIP
THERE.
THERE. I KIND OF OUT OF SIGHT, OUT OF
MIND WITH EVERYTHING ELSE.
DEEP INSIDE I DID HAVE A LOT OF
GUILT, BUT I STILL CONTINUED.
>> NOW, IN THE BEGINNING OF THE
TAPE THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT,
THE CONVERSATION SEEMS GEARED
TOWARD CAMPAIGN ISSUES.
WE APPEAR TO HEAR TRUMP TALKING
ON THE PHONE, THEN THE
CONVERSATION TURNS TO COHEN
MENTIONING THAT HE HAD TO SET UP
A COMPANY.
A COMPANY. COMPANY WAS TO BE USED FOR
TRANSFER TO SOMEONE NAMED DAVID,
WHO YOU JUST MENTIONED.
>> THERE YOU GO.
IT APPEARS TO BE A REFERENCE.
THERE’S THE PICTURE.
HE’S HEAD OF AMI.
THEY PUBLISH THE "NATIONAL
INQUIRER."
INQUIRER." THEY PAID McDOUGAL $150 FOR THE
RIGHTS TO HER STORY AND NEVER
PUBLISHED IT.
PUBLISHED IT. IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE HERE
THAT DONALD TRUMP AND DAVID
PECKER, I SAID IT -- THESE GUYS
ARE LONG, LONG, LONG-TIME
FRIENDS.
FRIENDS. >> NOW THAT YOU KNOW WHO ARE
PLAYERS ARE, LET’S GET TO THE
TAPE.
TAPE. NBC NEWS HAS AUTHENTICATED THE
AUDIO WITH COHEN’S ATTORNEY, BUT
WE DO NOT KNOW IF THERE HAS BEEN
ANY ALTERING OR EDITING OF THE
ORIGINAL.
ORIGINAL. YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT PARTS OF IT
ARE HARD TO HEAR, WHICH MAKES
THE STORY MUCH MORE COMPLICATED.
AND THERE IS SOME PROFANITY.
LISTEN FOR YOURSELF.
>> LET ME KNOW WHAT’S HAPPENING,
OKAY?
OKAY? OH.
OH. OH.
OH. MAYBE BECAUSE OF THIS IT WOULD
BE BETTER IF YOU DIDN’T GO.
MAYBE BECAUSE OF THIS, FOR THAT
ONE -- YOU KNOW, I THINK WHAT
YOU SHOULD DO IS GET RID OF THIS
BECAUSE IT’S SO -- SUCH -- UM, I
THINK THIS GOES AWAY QUICKLY.
I THINK IT’S PROBABLY BETTER TO
DO THE CHARLESTON THING, JUST
THIS TIME.
THIS TIME. YEAH.
YEAH. IN TWO WEEKS IT’S FINE.
I THINK RIGHT NOW, IT’S BETTER.
YOU KNOW?
YOU KNOW? OKAY, HONEY.
OKAY, HONEY. YOU TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF.
THANKS.
THANKS. YUP.
YUP. I’M PROUD OF YOU.
SO LONG.
SO LONG. BYE.
BYE. WHAT’S UP, MIKE?
>> GREAT POLL.
>> YOU GUYS ARE GOOD.
>> I CAN’T BELIEVE THIS.
WHAT’S HAPPENING?
WHAT’S HAPPENING? CAN WE USE HIM ANYMORE?
>> HE -- MARK BURNS.
CAN WE USE HIM?
>> NO.
>> NO. >> I’M SORRY, RICHARD JUST
CALLED.
CALLED. >> WE GOT SERVED FROM THE "NEW
YORK TIMES," I TOLD YOU THIS.
REGARDING UNSEAL THE DIVORCE
PAPERS WITH IVANNA.
WE’RE FIGHTING IT.
>> NEVER BE ABLE TO GET THAT.
>> NO.
>> NO. NEVER -- THEY DON’T HAVE --
>> DON’T HAVE A LEGITIMATE
PURPOSE.
PURPOSE. >> WOMAN THAT DOESN’T WANT TO --
>> CORRECT.
>> CORRECT. >> AND IT’S ALL -- GOING ON FOR
A WHILE.
A WHILE. >> TWO OAR THREER THREE WEEKS.
>> DELAY IT.
>> NO PURPOSE FOR IT.
CHARLESTON.
CHARLESTON. I NEED TO OPEN UP A COMPANY FOR
THE TRNZ FERANSFER OF THAT INFO
REGARDING OUR FRIEND DAVID.
>> GIVE IT TO ME.
>> I’VE SPOKEN TO ALLEN
WIESELBERG WILL HOW TO SET THE
WHOLE THING UP WITH --
>> WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO?
>> YES.
>> YES. AND IT’S -- ALL THE STUFF,
BECAUSE YOU NEVER KNOW WHERE
THAT COMPANY, WHAT HE’S.
>> MAYBE HE GETS HIT BY BSH --
GO CORRECT
GO CORRECT >> CORRECT.
>> CORRECT. WHEN IT COMES TIME FOR THE
FINANCING?
FINANCING? >> WHAT FINANCING.
>> CASH.
>> CASH. >> NO.
>> NO. NO, NO, NO NO.
I GOT -- NO NO.
>> OKAY.
>> OKAY. SO IT’S THE LAST PART OF THE
TAPE THAT’S IN QUESTION.
EACH SIDE HAS A DIFFERENT
EXPLANATION.
EXPLANATION. COHEN’S LAWYER CLAIMS TRUMP SAYS
HE WANTS TO PAY WITH CASH, BUT
TRUMP LAWYER, RUDY GIULIANI SAID
TRUMP CLEARLY SAID NOT CASH,
ADDING, QUOTE IT SHOWS THE
PRESIDENT WANTED IT DONE IN A
WAY THAT WAS MEMORIALIZED.
THEY ALSO TALKED ABOUT GOING
THROUGH A CORPORATION.
YOU’RE NOT GOING TO DO A CASH
TRANSACTION THROUGH A
CORPORATION.
CORPORATION. THAT’S RUDY GIULIANI.
>> WORDS REALLY MATTER.
IF TRUMP WANTED TO REIM BURSTBUR
WITH CASH.
WITH CASH. >> MICHAEL COHEN IS UNDER
INVESTIGATION FOR A SIMILAR
PAYMENT MADE TO STORMY DANIELS
JUST BEFORE THE ELECTION.
THAT COULD BE A VIOLATION OF
CAMPAIGN FINANCE LAWS.
>> OF COURSE PRESIDENT TRUMP IS
RESPONDING TO ALL OF THIS,
TWEETING WHAT KIND OF A LAWYER
WOULD TAPE A CLIENT?
SO SAD.
SO SAD. IS THIS A FIRST?
NEVER HEARD OF IT BEFORE.
WHY WAS THE TAPE SO ABRUPTLY
TERMINATED, CUT, WHILE I WAS
PRESUMABLY SAYING POSITIVE
THINGS.
THINGS. I HEAR THERE ARE OTHER CLIENTS
AND MANY REPORTERS THAT ARE
TAPED.
TAPED. CAN THIS BE SO?
TOO BAD.
TOO BAD. >> JOINING US NOW, PAUL
GINSBERG, A FORENSIC AUDIO
EXPERT WHO HAS WORKED WITH THE
CIA AND FBI.
CHUCK ROSE ENBURG.
A VISITING SCHOLAR.
PAUL, LET’S GO TO YOU FIRST, I
KNOW YOU SLOWED THE AUDIO DOWN
SLIGHTLY AND STRIPPED AWAY SORT
OF THE BACKGROUND ROOM NOISE TO
MAKE IT EASIER FOR THE VIEWER TO
HEAR EXACTLY WHAT WAS SAID AND I
WANT TO LISTEN TO THE LAST PART
OF THE TAPE AGAIN WHEN THEY’RE
TALKING ABOUT THE PAYMENT.
THAT’S WHAT MATTERS HERE.
>> I NEED TO OPEN UP A COMPANY
FOR THE TRANSFER OF ALL OF THAT
INFO REGARDING OUR FRIEND DAVID.
YOU KNOW, SO THAT I’M GOING TO
DO THAT RIGHT AWAY.
IT’S ACTUALLY --
>> I’VE SPOKEN TO ALLEN
WISELEBERG ABOUT HOW TO SET THE
WHOLE THING UP WITH FUNDING.
YES.
YES. AND IT’S ALL THE STUFF.
BECAUSE YOU NEVER KNOW WHERE
THAT COMPANY, WHAT HE’S.
>> MAYBE HE GETS HIT BY --
>> CORRECT.
>> CORRECT. SO I’M ALL OVER THAT.
AND I SPOKE TO ALLEN ABOUT IT.
WHEN IT COMES TIME FOR THE
FINANCING, WHICH WILL BE.
>> WHAT FINANCING?
>> WE’LL HAVE TO PAY -- PAY WITH
CASH.
CASH. >> NO.
>> NO. NO, NO, NO.
I GOT -- NO, NO, NO.
>> ALLEN IS ALENWISELEBURG WHO’S
THE CFO OF THE TRUMP
ORGANIZATION.
ORGANIZATION. HE WORKED WITH DONALD TRUMP’S
FATHER, FRED TRUMP.
SO FAR AS SOMEONE WHO KNOWS THE
INTRICATE DETAILS, ALLEN
CERTAINLY DOES.
CERTAINLY DOES. PAUL, WHAT WERE YOU HEARING AT
THAT PORTION?
THAT PORTION? IS.
IS. >> I HEARD MR. COHEN TALKING AND
THEN TRUMP SAYS SOMETHING, MAYBE
ONE SYLLABLE, AND THEN PAY BY
CASH, AND THEN COENSAYS NO, NO,
NO, NO NO.
>> WHAT DO YOU THINK THE
SOMETHING UNINTELLIGIBLE IS AND
DOES THE SCIENCE ALLOW FOR US TO
FIGURE THAT OUT.
>> I DON’T FEEL IT WAS THE WORD
KW THE DON’T." I DON’T HERE A T
SOUND.
SOUND. IT WAS MORE IN LINE WITH THE
WORD MORE.
WORD MORE. MORE.
MORE. PAY BY CASH.
AND HE WAS ASKING OR TRYING TO
VERIFY HOW THIS WAS TO BE PAID.
>> HOW ADMISSIBLE IS THIS KIND
OF STUFF IN COURT?
OBVIOUSLY BOTH SIDES, LISTENING
TO A TAPE BUT IF YOU HEAR IT
DIFFERENTLY AND RUDY GIULIANI
SAYS IT’S ONE THING AND LANNY
DAVIS SAYS IT’S ANOTHER AND THEY
BOTH ACTUALLY PROVIDED
TRANSCRIPTS OF WHAT THEY SAY IT
IS.
IS. IF THIS WERE TO BE IN COURT OR
IN FRONT OF INVESTIGATORS, HOW
DOES ONE DETERMINE WHAT’S TRUE?
>> THIS IS REALLY A JURY
QUESTION.
QUESTION. GENERALLY, A RECORDING WILL BE
PLAYED IN COURT AND EACH SIDE
WILL PROFFER ITS OWN TRANSCRIPT
OF WHAT THEY THINK WAS ON THE
TAPE, AND THEN THE JUDGE WILL
CAUTION THE JURY THAT THE
TRANSCRIPT IS JUST WHAT EACH OF
THESE PARTIES BELIEVES WAS ON
THE TAPE.
THE TAPE. BUT THE TAPE IS THE ACTUAL
EVIDENCE, AND WHATEVER YOU HEAR
IS REALLY WHAT RULES.
>> CHUCK, WALK US THROUGH THIS,
BECAUSE THE CONVERSATION
OBVIOUSLY APPEARS TO BE ABOUT
THE CAMPAIGN.
THE CAMPAIGN. IF IT IS, IF IT IS A CAMPAIGN
FINANCE VIOLATION, THEN WHAT?
WHAT ARE THE REPERCUSSIONS?
BECAUSE IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE
AVERAGE AMERICAN OUT THERE, WHY
SHOULD THEY CARE ABOUT THIS?
>> THESE ARE THE RULES BY WHICH
WE ALL PLAY.
RULES ARE PRETTY CLEAR.
STEPHANIE, IF YOU’RE RUNNING FOR
OFFICE, WHICH BY THE WAY, I
DON’T RECOMMEND YOU DO.
>> WHAT WOULD THEY SAY ABOUT ME?
>> YOU’D BE WONDERFUL.
IT’S THE INSTITUTION I’M
CONCERNED ABOUT.
CONCERNED ABOUT. I’M LIMITED IN THE AM OF MONEY I
CAN GIVE YOU.
AND YOU HAVE TO FILE AN ACCURATE
AND HONEST CAMPAIGN REPORT.
THOSE ARE THE RULES.
SO IF I’M GIVING MOUN ON YOUR
BEHALF TO SOMEONE ELSE OR YOU’RE
FILING FALSE CAMPAIGN REPORTS,
THAT’S A VIOLATION OF FEDERAL
CRIMINAL FALL LAW.
BY THE WAY, WHAT MR. GINSBERG
SAYS IS SPOT ON.
I SPENT HUNDREDS OF HOURS
LISTENING TO TAPES.
SOMETIMES YOU CAN’T MAKE OUT A
WORD OR TWO OR SENTENCE OR TWO.
TRANSCRIPT IS NOT EVIDENCE.
EVIDENCE IS THE TAPE.
BUT THE EVIDENCE -- THIS IS
REALLY IMPORTANT -- IS ALSO THE
TESTIMONY OF THE PERSON WHO
AUTHENTICATES THE TAPE.
THE WITNESS.
THE WITNESS. MICHAEL COHEN.
MICHAEL COHEN. >> HOW SIGNIFICANT IS IT IF A
PRESIDENT OR PRESIDENTIAL
CANDIDATE IS INVOLVED IN
SOMETHING LIKE THIS?
I’M NO THE TRYING TO BE SASSY
BUT HE’S NOT THE FIRST PRESIDENT
TO HAVE AN AFFAIR.
NOT ONE PERSON WHO VOTED FOR HIM
THOUGHT HE WAS A MORAL OR
HONORABLE PERSON.
HONORABLE PERSON. THEY KNEW HE WAS A SLEAZY
BUSINESS GUY AND IN SPITE OF
THAT VOTED FOR HIM.
SO WHAT ARE WE LEARNING HERE
THAT’S GOING TO CHANGE ANYONE’S
VIEW OR CAUSE REAL PROBLEMS FOR
THE PRESIDENT AND HIS FORMER
FIXER?
FIXER? >> I THINK THE ISSUE IS CONEXIT.
WE HEARD SOME THINGS.
TAPE OF GRABBING WOMEN BY
CERTAIN PARTS DURING THE
ELECTION.
ELECTION. IT DIDN’T HAVE AN EFFECT.
THAT WAS IN THE CONTEXT OF AN
ELECTION AND PEOPLE DIDN’T HAVE
EVERYTHING WE’VE LEARNED ABOUT
RUSSIA.
RUSSIA. DIDN’T HAVE STORMY DANIELS,
DIDN’T HAVE THE ISSUE GOING ON.
THEY DIDN’T -- THE ECHO CHAMBER
DIGGING INTO THESE THINGS.
THEY DIDN’T HAVE YOU GUYS
SITTING HERE DOING AN AUDIO
ANALYSIS WORD BY WORD OF A I TA.
THERE WERE 12 CLAIMED AS
PRIVILEGE AND UNDOUBTEDLY MANY
MORE TAPES BEYOND THOSE 12 THAT
ARE OUT THERE.
PLUS OTHER TESTIMONY, PLUS THE
MANAFORT TRIAL.
MANAFORT TRIAL. SO WE’RE SORT OF JUST WADING IN
TO A NEW KIND OF SWAMP AND WE’RE
UP TO OUR ANKLES.
WHEN WE GET TO THE ELECTION,
WHERE WILL WE BE?
>> CAN I JUST ASK, WHY WOULD
MICHAEL COHEN AND/OR RUDIALLIAN
RUDIALLIANNYRUDIALLIANY
RUDIALLIANNYRUDIALLIANY GIULIANI SAY PUT THIS OUT THERE?
>> NO MONEY, I BELIEVE WAS EVER
ACTUALLY PAID TO AMI.
>> I HAVE A THEORY.
I DON’T FULLY UNDERSTAND.
IT’S POSSIBLE THAT THE SPECIAL
MASTER IN THE CASE, THE JUDGE,
IN DETERMINING WHETHER OR NOT
THE STUFF IS PRIVILEGED, FOUND
THAT IT WAS PRIVILEGED BUT THAT
THERE’S A A CRIME FRAUD
EXCEPTION TO IT.
AND RATHER THAN LET THE JUDGE
MAKE A FINDING THAT A CRIME
FRAUD EXCEPTION APPLIED TO
OBVIATE THE PRIVILEGE, THEY
DECIDED LET’S GET AHEAD OF THAT
RULING.
RULING. >> MEANS THAT THE PRIVILEGE
DISAPPEARING IF THE LAWYER IS
ENGAGED IN A FRAUD WITH THE
CLIENT.
CLIENT. >> THAT’S EXACTLY RIGHT.
I’M YOUR LAWYER.
WE’RE DISCUSSING HOW WE CAN
TRADE ON INSIDE INFORMATION.
THAT’S NOT A PRIVILEGED
CONVERSATION.
CONVERSATION. THAT’S A CRIME.
SO THAT CRIME FRAUD EXCEPTION
WOULD OBVIATE OUR OTHERWISE --?
THEY’RE ADMITTING GUILT BCH --
>> THEY’RE NOT ADMITTING GUILT,
THEY’RE ADMITTING THIS
CONVERSATION IS NOT PRIV LENLED.
THAT’S WHAT THEY WOULD SAY.
>> BECAUSE THEY ALL LOOK TOTALLY
SLEAZY.
SLEAZY. >> THEY ALL ARE.
>> BUT LET’S SAY I’M SLEAZY.
I DOENS DON’T WANT TO ADD SIZE
THAT.
THAT. >> I THINK WHAT THEY’RE DOING IS
SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
SOMETHING DIFFERENT. CHUCK’S POINT IS A LEGAL POINT
BUT THEY’RE PLAYING A POLITICAL
GAME.
GAME. YONG, THEY THINK THE PRESIDENT
IS GOING TO COME TO TRIAL WITH
THIS.
THIS. I THINK HE’S GOING TO A, COME TO
TRIAL BEFORE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
IN NOVEMBER.
IN NOVEMBER. AND I THINK AT SOME POINT HE
MIGHT COME TO TRIAL BEFORE THE
CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES.
AND THEY’RE BOTH POSITIONING
THEMSELVES TO SAY MICHAEL
COHEN’S NOT CREDIBLE.
PRESIDENT IS NOT CREDIBLE.
PRESIDENT IS DOING THESE SLEAZY
THINGS.
THINGS. PEOPLE ARE TAKING SIDES TRYING
TO WIN A POLITICAL GAME.
I THINK LANNY DAVIS COMES FROM A
PARTICULAR PLACE POLITICALLY.
MICHAEL
MICHAEL MICHAEL AVE. VAN NATTY.
>> LET’S REMEMBER.
PRESIDENT LIED ABOUT THIS
RELATIONSHIP WITH McDOUGAL.
HE LIED ABOUT NOT KNOWING
ANYTHING ABOUT IT.
HOPE HICKS LIED ABOUT THIS.
THIS IS NOT THE LIE OF THE DAY
YESTERDAY, BECAUSE WE HAVE FOUR
OR FIVE BIG LIES EVERYDAY, BUT
IT’S -- IT IS PART OF A PATTERN
THAT SHOWS THAT THE PRESIDENT IS
NOT TO BE TRUSTED ON ANYTHING.
>> SO THE ISSUE HERE, BECAUSE
WE’RE ALL GOING TO GET CARRIED
AWAY TALKING ABOUT CASH ALL DAY,
ISN’T THE CASH.
ISN’T WHETHER THE PAYMENT WAS
MADE BY CASH.
IT MAY SPEAK TO A LITTLE BIT OF
INTENT OR I DON’T WANT TO GET
CAUGHT BUT THE ISSUE IS THERE’S
MONEY BEING PAID AND THE TIMING
HAVING TO DO WITH THE CAMPAIGN.
>> THAT’S EXACTLY RIGHT.
WE CAN ABIDE BY THE LAW USING
CASH.
CASH. WE COULD BREAK THE LAW USING A
CHECK.
CHECK. AND SO DETERMINING WHETHER OR
NOT TRUMP SAID CASH OR COHEN
SAID CASH IS INTERESTING BUT
ALSO A LITTLE BITBY SIDE BESIDE
POINT.
POINT. IF THEY MADE A PAYMENT AND IT
WAS INTENDED TO INFLUENCE AN
ELECTION AND IN EXCESS OF THE
AMOUNT ALLOWED BY LAW AND WE