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>>> THANKS TO SMART PHONES, GAMES AND APPS ARE AT OUR
FINGERTIPS, PRETTY MUCH ALL THE
TIME THAT FALL INTO THE SOCIAL
CASINO CATEGORY.
CASINO CATEGORY. BUT ARE THEY GAMBLING?
I SPOKE WITH KEITH WHITE ON THE
NATIONAL COUNSEL.
NATIONAL COUNSEL. >> WELL, SOCIAL CASINO IS A
VERY INTERESTING TERM.
THEY'RE FACSIMILES OF CASINO
GAMES, LIKE SLOTS, POKER, BLACK
JACK THAT ARGUABLY DON'T MEET
THE TERM OF GAMBLING BECAUSE
THEY MAY EXCLUDE PRIZE.
IF YOU TEMPORARILY REMOVE A
PRIZE OR MAKE IT FREE TO PLAY
TO START WITH, YOU CAN PLAY
THESE GAMBLING GAMES.
BUT THEY'RE NOT REGULATED OR
LEGALIZED AS GAMBLING.
AND IT'S AN EXPLOSIVE MARKET.
SO IN 2019, GLOBALLY, THE
AMOUNT PEOPLE LOST PLAYING
THESE FREE-TO-PLAY GAMES WAS
OVER $5 BILLION.
ABOUT $3.5 BILLION OF THAT FROM
THE U.S.
THE U.S.
THE U.S. >> HOW DOW LOSE MONEY AT A FREE-
TO-PLAY MONEY.
TO-PLAY MONEY. >> THIS IS THE TRICK.
BECAUSE THEY OFTEN START FREE
TO PLAY.
TO PLAY.
TO PLAY. MAYBE YOU GET A DAY'S WORTH OF
FREE CREDITS OR COUPLE HUNDRED
FREE CREDITS.
FREE CREDITS. BUT THEN AS YOU PLAY THE GAME,
YOU GO THROUGH THOSE FREE
CREDITS PRETTY QUICKLY.
THEN YOU GET A MONTIZATION
WINDOW.
WINDOW.
WINDOW. AND IT'S AGGRESSIVE.
AND YOU HAVE TO BUY TO KEEP
PLAYING TO MAINTAIN YOUR
PROGRESS IN THE GAME.
TO SAVE YOUR LEVELS.
AND THE MONETIZATION CAN BE
HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS.
YOU CAN BUY TRILLIONS OF CHIPS
FOR HUNDREDS OR EVEN THOUSANDS
OF DOLLARS.
OF DOLLARS. >> THAT'S AMAZING.
NATE, TELL ME A LITTLE ABOUT
WHAT THESE VIRTUAL GAMES ARE
LIKE.
LIKE.
LIKE. THEY'RE ON APPS.
WEBSITES.
WEBSITES.
WEBSITES. ET CETERA.
ET CETERA. AND THEY'RE ACCESSIBLE TO
ANYBODY, CORRECT?
ANYBODY, CORRECT? >> YEAH.
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH. ANYBODY CAN DOWNLOAD THEM.
IT'S LIKE HAVING A CASINO IN
YOUR POCKET ANY TIME YOU WANT.
>> WHAT ARE THE PROBLEMS WITH
THIS?
THIS?
THIS? WHAT ARE SOME OF THE HEALTH
PROBLEMS AND SOCIAL PROBLEMS
THAT RESULT FROM THIS KIND OF
WILD WEST ENVIRONMENT, WHERE
SOCIAL CASINOS EXIST?
>> WELL, MARGARET.
AS NATE SAID.
THE EASE OF DOWNLOAD IS ONE BIG
PROBLEM.
PROBLEM.
PROBLEM. BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT CLASSIFIED
AS GAMBLING GAMES, THEY ARE
ABLE TO BE DOWNLOADED BY
VIRTUALLY ANYBODY.
VIRTUALLY ANYBODY. YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO BE 12
YEARS OLD.
YEARS OLD. SOME OF THESE GAMES ARE EVEN
RATED UNDERNEATH "T" FOR TEEN.
SO ACCESS IS A BIG PROBLEM.
BECAUSE IT IS AN ONLINE
GAMBLING GAME.
GAMBLING GAME. IT DOES USE MONEY.
YOU CAN DEVELOP ADDICTION.
THESE SAME GAMES IF OFFERED IN
AN ONLINE CASINO OR IN PERSON
CASINO, WOULD HAVE AGE LIMITS,
WARNING FEATURES, ALL SORTS OF
BARRIERS TO PROTECT AGAINST
EXCESSIVE OR ADDICTIVE
BEHAVIOR.
BEHAVIOR.
BEHAVIOR. SOCIAL CASINO GAMES HAVE ALL
THE PSYCHOLOGICAL FEATURES AND
NONE OF THE PROTECTIONS.
>> AND NATE, LET ME ASK YOU
ABOUT THE BIG FISH COURT
DECISION.
DECISION.
DECISION. I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE
FAMILIAR WITH SEEING THAT AS
PURVEYOR GAMES.
PURVEYOR GAMES. >> THE COURT RULED THAT BECAUSE
PEOPLE WERE PAYING TO GET THESE
VIRTUAL CHIPS THAT THE
APPELLATE COURT RULED THAT IT
WAS GAMBLING.
WAS GAMBLING. AND THAT THESE COMPANIES SHOULD
BE REGULATED AS CASINO
COMPANIES.
COMPANIES. WHICH, OF COURSE, IF THAT WERE
THE CASE, WOULD HAVE A CHILLING
EFFECT ON THEIR INCOME.
SO THEY ARE STRENUOUSLY
FIGHTING AGAINST THAT
CLASSIFICATION.
CLASSIFICATION. AND THAT LAWSUIT IS ONGOING
UNDER THE APPELLATE RULING.
>> I THINK IT SHOWS THERE WAS
PROBABLY ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR.
NATE'S REPORT SHOWS ONE PERSON
ALONE LOST MORE THAN $400,000
ON A FREE-TO-PLAY SOCIAL CASINO
GAME.
GAME.
GAME. AND
GAME. AND 2, IT SHOWS THAT THE
REVENUE IS SO INCREDIBLE THAT
THEY'RE WILLING TO SPEND OVER
$100 MILLION IN A SETTLEMENT
JUST TO CONTINUE OFFERING THESE
GAMES.
GAMES.
GAMES. >>
GAMES. >> THAT SPEAKS TO WHAT MONEY
MUST LOOK LIKE ALTOGETHER.
AND NATE, ONE FINAL QUESTION.
I MEAN, HOW DO PEOPLE IDENTIFY
IF THEY HAVE A PROBLEM?
IF THEY'RE PLAYING A GAME AND
SPENDING $5 A MONTH, NOT A BIG
DEAL, RIGHT?
DEAL, RIGHT? HOW DO WE FIGURE OUT WHEN WE'RE
DOING THIS AND WE MAY BE
DEVELOPING A BEHAVIORAL
PROBLEM?
PROBLEM?
PROBLEM? >> WELL, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT
TO RECOGNIZE THAT ACCORDING TO
THE EXECUTIVES OF THESE CASINO
COMPANIES, THEY MAKE 80 OR 90%
OF THEIR REVENUE NOT FROM
SOMEBODY SPENDING $5.
THEY MAKE IT FROM 3% OF PLAYERS
WHO SPEND 80 TO 90%.
THEY'RE USING ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE TO TARGET THOSE
SPECIFIC PLAYERS WHO LIKE SHE
REPORTED ON, WILL SPEND
$400,000.
$400,000.
$400,000. SHE DIDN'T HAVE $400,000.
IN A REGULAR CASINO.
THERE'S SOMETHING CALLED KNOW
YOUR CUSTOMER.
YOUR CUSTOMER. KYC.
KYC.
KYC. THEY
KYC. THEY WOULD HAVE KNOWN SHE
DIDN'T HAVE THE INCOME TO BE
SPENDING $400K.
SPENDING $400K. FURTHER, SHE ASKED THEM NEARLY
A DOZEN TIMES TO CUT HER OFF.
SHE SAID SHE HAD A PROBLEM AND
COULDN'T STOP SPENDING.
AND WHAT DID THEY DO?
THEY JUST GAVE HER FREE CHIPS
AND ENCOURAGE SAID HER TO KEEP
SPENDING.
SPENDING.
SPENDING. THAT WOULDN'T HAPPEN IN A
REGULAR CASINO.
REGULAR CASINO. THIS IS A LAWLESS LAND.
>> WHAT KIND OF HELP IS
AVAILABLE FOR PEOPLE?
>> THE GOOD NEWS IS, THE
GAMBLING ADDICTION IS
PREVENTABLE AND TREATABLE.
SOCIAL GAMBLING, YOU LOOK AT
PREOCCUPATION WITH THE GAME.
LIKE SUSIE HAD.
ABUSE.
ABUSE.
ABUSE. OR
ABUSE. OR TOLERANCE TO PLAY MORE AND
MORE WITHOUT BEING ABLE TO
CHOOSE EXCITEMENT.
CHOOSE EXCITEMENT. AND HARM.
AND HARM.
AND HARM. SHE NOT ONLY HARMED HERSELF,
SHE HARMED HER FAMILY.
SHE CAUSED ENORMOUS DEVASTATION
WITHIN HER LOVED ONES AND HER
COMMUNITY.
COMMUNITY. SO WHEN YOU DO THAT, THE GOOD
NEWS IS, THERE IS HOPE AND HELP
AVAILABLE THROUGH THE
WASHINGTON STATE COUNCIL, THEY
RUN TOLL-FREE HELP LINE
REFERRAL.
REFERRAL.
REFERRAL. THERE'S A ONE-STOP SHOPPING FOR
PEOPLE OR LOVED ONES WHO FEEL
THAT SOMEONE IN THEIR LIFE MAY
HAVE A PROBLEM WITH GAMBLING.
>> THANK YOU.
WHEELWE'LL MAKE SURE EVERYONE
KNOWS WHERE TO GO FOR HELP.
>> IF YOU KNOW ANYONE DEALING
WITH GAMBLING ADDICTION, PLEASE
VISIT THE PLACE ON YOUR SCREEN.
OR CALL OR