Governor Andrew Cuomo,
welcome to The Daily Social Distancing Show.
Pleasure to be with you.
-I'm a big fan. -Well, thank you very much.
I think everyone is a big fan of yours right now
because more than ever during this pandemic,
people have sought out leaders who, uh, communicate effectively
and seem to know what they're trying to do.
Nobody has all the answers about coronavirus,
but people look for leaders
who know what they would like to do.
Let's start off with New York.
Where does New York stand right now
in terms of the numbers and in terms of its trajectory?
Well, the good news is, uh, we have shown
that we can control the spread of the virus, right?
Which people take for granted now,
but I wasn't always so sure.
We could have taken all these measures--
close down, stay home--
and we could have seen that spread continue to go up.
That would have been a really frightening place.
But that was a possibility.
Uh, we showed that we can control the spread.
It went up. The so-called plateau.
It hit a flat spot.
And now we're on the downside of the plateau.
Uh, the question is how fast is that decline
and, uh, how long does it take to make the decline?
We have about 1,300 people per day,
new diagnoses coming into the system.
Uh, we lost about 474 people yesterday.
Uh, which is a horrific number, but it's...
The only good news is it's less
than the previous, uh, numbers of people we-we lost.
And the hospitalization rate is coming down.
We have about 16,000 people in hospitals.
Uh, so, the numbers are all on the decline,
and that's the good news.
How long does it take until that number
gets to a, uh, small enough level
where you can sleep at night and not worry about it?
Could be two weeks. Could be three weeks.
Could be six weeks.
You're balancing the pressure of the people
who want to and need to get back to earning a living
and also, you know, the pressure
of keeping people safe as-as a leader.
How are you weighing these numbers?
Is there a point when you say
the risk is worth taking to go outside?
Yeah, that's...
You put the.. you put the question very well.
And often the question is more important than the answer,
and here is one of those cases, I think.
That is the balance.
The pressure that people are under is phenomenal.
It is traumatic.
This is traumatic for people,
and that's the way I think about it.
You're right. The economic pressure.
You have no paycheck, but meanwhile,
they're still sending you the bills.
You know, there was...
The-the bill collector is an essential worker,
and they're piling up on your desk.
You don't know when you'll go back.
You don't know if you will go back.
-Mm-hmm. -You don't know if your job is still there,
if your business is still there.
You've been in the house with the family for a month.
It sounds romantic the first seven days,
and then it gets highly stressful
when you have everyone in that environment with nothing to do,
and everyone has their own stress.
So, it's a...
People are about to burst on one level.
They're under that kind of pressure.
On the other hand,
we had 474 people die yesterday.
You tell me how many people go outside today
and touch other people, I'll tell you how many people
walk into a hospital three-three days from now.
The cause and effect is that tight.
This-this virus communicates and transfers
that quickly and that precisely.
So, you think a situation like New York City,
where social distancing cannot happen by definition.
Nobody gets six square feet of real estate, right?
You don't get six feet on a subway car
or on a bus or on a sidewalk.
Uh, you will see those numbers go up.
It is an impossible balance, Trevor.
It's impossible to make people...
-to make both sides happy, if you will. -Mm-hmm.
And you just have to accept that.
Uh, and for me, it's gonna be about the data.
We're going to do testing.
We're going to look at that hospitalization rate.
We're going to look at that death rate.
And you don't start to reopen
until you have those numbers under control.
So, what is that number for you?
Do you have that number?
Is there a number that medical professionals
or experts have given to you and said,
"This is the number that we think
activates New York reopening"?
They won't give me the number, Trevor.
Because you're right. Nobody's been here
on any of these situations.
What they will say is the number will decline
to a level that is basically a low constant.
Uh, because you can't stop all transmission of the virus.
Right? We're never going to get down to zero.
So, when you get down to the lowest level you can,
that's your low point.
Because remember, the economy's not really closed down, right?
You still have essential workers out there.
You have people on buses and transportation
and people in grocery stores.
So, that will be some low-level constant.
And once we hit that number,
then you can talk about starting to reopen.
So-so we're-we're seeing governors around America,
we're seeing leaders around the world using different tactics
to reopen their countries.
For instance, in Denmark,
they've started opening up a few schools.
In Germany, they're getting ready to do that.
In Georgia, they said they're going s--
they're going straight to bowling alleys
and hair dressing, you know, salons, et cetera.
Do you have an idea?
Are you going to say to New Yorkers,
"Hey, we're gonna start with these industries or this world.
"We're-- Then we're going to move to this.
Then we're going to move to that"?
Or does it all open at once?
Do you have an idea of what that would be?
No, it has to be phased in.
It has to be slow and building.
And watch that infection rate
as you start to open up the valve to reopen, right?
As you increase the flow,
keep your eye on that infection rate.
Uh, we're gonna have the most aggressive testing program,
uh, ever done,
just to monitor that-that infection rate.
Remember, the hospitalization rate is too late.
Hospitalization rate is people who are so sick
they went into a hospital.
We want to track the infection rate.
So we watch that, start opening the flow slowly,
and then, basically, it's a matrix.
How essential is the business
and how high a risk does the business pose?
The more essential businesses first,
and the lower-risk businesses first.
So, uh, barbershops,
hair salons, to me,
they are on the end of the chain
because they're not that essential.
People would argue.
But in the scope of things, they're not that essential.
And they are high-risk.
Because I want to see a person perform a haircut
and maintain socially--
social distancing while they give you a haircut.
And I want to see the haircut that they do
after they did it socially distant.
So, that would be at the back end, right?
And, on the front end,
you would just basically be doing
the next tranche of essential services, right?
-What's the next level of essential? -Mm-hmm.
And, uh, low-risk essential.
Um, you're in an interesting, um, place right now,
where you are the governor of New York
but you are one of many governors
who's entered into a pact to try and open up a region.
Because, as you said, um, publicly,
you know, the-the virus doesn't follow state lines.
You-you can't implement this approach
without the federal government helping you where it needs to.
Now, yourself and Trump have gone back and forth.
But one thing you both acknowledge is that,
when it comes down to it,
you know how to communicate and you work together.
You had a meeting with the president.
Was there anything fruitful from that meeting?
Is there anything that's going to come from that meeting?
And-and what is the relationship between yourself
and Trump/the federal government right now
in getting New York what it needs?
Well, the relationship between myself and the president is,
uh, the president doesn't like me.
That is the relationship.
It is unambiguous. It is honest. It is open.
Uh, and he doesn't like my politics, let's say.
Uh, and we have been at political loggerheads
many times over the past few years.
If you look at his Twitter account,
you'll see my name quite often.
Uh, none of it good, Trevor, none of it good.
Uh, and I've sued the federal government a number of times.
So that's-- it's open and it's, uh, not necessarily loving.
Uh, having said that,
we had a meeting in the White House,
and it was a very productive meeting.
And I don't mean in diplomatic, conceptual talk.
It was a honest, open, granular,
detailed conversation about the subject of testing,
which is totally new for everyone.
It's an impossible undertaking,
because the numbers are just so extraordinary
and there's so much urgency to it.
But we had a very honest conversation,
and we went through what is testing
and what should the state do
and what should the federal government do.
And, uh, we basically allocated tasks.
So it was a very positive conversation.
And, look, I give them credit,
because it's hard
to actually sit down with someone
who you have differences with
and say, "Put that all aside
"and let's just do our jobs here, our respective jobs,
because it's bigger than we are."
And-and that's what yesterday was.
It was, "Forget everything else.
"We're talking about life and death.
"We're talking about the profound moment
"of our history,
"uh, that we will experience,
"and we have a job to do because we're in a position.
And let's just do it and forget everything else."
And that's the way it should be.
You know, who cares how he feels or how I feel?
Who cares about how I feel about him personally?
My feelings are irrelevant.
My emotions are irrelevant.
Uh, just do the job.
Who cares about what I think or what he thinks?
And that's what yesterday was.
It's really great to hear that.
And-and the testing part of it
is-is what really jumps out for me.
Because one thing most people seem to agree upon
all across the world is, with testing,
that's going to be our best defense against coronavirus
before a vaccine.
Testing and tracing this virus.
What does that mean though for you,
as the governor of New York?
Does it mean every New Yorker has some method
where they-they're self-testing
or getting tested and then monitoring themselves?
Does it mean that people who come from out of state
or out of country can or cannot come in unless they're tested?
I'm-I'm really intrigued by how this is gonna work.
Because unless the whole world is doing the same thing,
one hole might be a hole for everybody, you know?
It could sink the entire ship.
So what does that mean for you,
in terms of testing and how it will be applied?
There will always be a net with many holes in it,
uh, to stick with your analogy.
I don't think you're going to have enough tests anywhere,
uh, to d-- to design the perfect system, okay?
Uh, testing capacity--
we are trying to jumpstart
a testing laboratory system
that just doesn't do this.
I have private labs in my state.
There are national manufacturers of lab kits and lab equipment.
But we're asking them to go
to 50 times what they've been doing.
If you took every machine in the state of New York
that does this, and you ran it
seven days a week, 24 hours a day,
you could get up to about 40,000 tests per day, all right?
That is the maximum capacity.
Sounds like a lot, but it's not
when you're talking about 19 million people.
Uh, I've done more tests in this state
than any state in the United States.
We do more tests than any country per capita,
and we've tested about 500,000 people.
Sounds like a lot of people.
But again, not on a population of 19 million,
not on a workforce of nine million.
And that was 500 in one month.
Uh, you want to bring them back based on tests, you can't do it.
What tests can do is monitor the spread of the virus.
That you can do with tests.
And that is the single most important thing to me.
Because as you're opening the reopening valve
and increasing the flow, what you need to know
is how many people are getting infected,
and that testing can do for you.
It can also do antibody testing,
which tells us how many people were infected,
but also identifies people
who can do the convalescent plasma treatment,
which is important.
Uh, and it gives employers a tool
in their workplace to test a smaller number
so you know for those...
that next tranche of essential businesses
that their workers are fine.
But you're never going to be able to do a net
that covers New York or any other state.
As-as the governor, you... you are facing a pandemic right now
in one of the most affected places in the world.
The... the horizon, unfortunately,
brings with it another dark side,
and that is people's finances.
You know, yes, some people may have been able
to stop paying their mortgage,
some may have been given a little leeway
to pay their rent or not pay their rent.
What happens on the other side of this?
Is there a plan to help people, to help New Yorkers,
um, who now may have a landlord who says,
"Well, you owe me two times the rent,"
Or "Now you owe me..." double this or double that.
Is there any plan in place to try and alleviate that stress
that may be felt post corona?
We're talking about it, Trevor, and we're thinking about it.
We don't have a specific plan yet
because we don't know how bad it is.
I have said, uh, short term,
no one can be evicted for nonpayment, okay?
So, you're out of work, you're not having a check--
-you cannot be evicted for nonpayment. -Right.
That is the immediate short-term, uh, problem, right?
Uh, depending on how long this goes,
you'll have other issues down the road, no doubt.
The expression "stone to stone across the morass," right?
How do you get across the morass?
And that's all we see right now is a morass in front of us.
Stone to stone.
-You don't have to figure out the whole path. -Mm-hmm.
Just find the next firm stone
to advance your progress.
Uh, and that's what we're doing.
So deal with the here and now,
and then we'll figure out the future
when we actually see what the future is.
Because where we have been wrong from day one here, right?
Every projection has turned out...
turned out to be incorrect.
So, uh, I'm at the point where,
let me see the facts that I'm dealing with,
and then we'll deal with them.
Well, that's our show for tonight.
But before we go, with businesses closing
and people still losing their jobs,
lots of people are struggling to find a meal right now.
But you can help them by donating to Feeding America.
They're supplying food to millions of Americans
every single day, and they could really use your help.
Even a dollar can help somebody get a meal. Don't forget that.
Until tomorrow, though, stay safe out there,
wash your hands, and remember,
you can save toilet paper by peeing in the shower.