Salima Koroma, welcome to The Daily Social Distancing Show.
Thank you so much, Trevor, for having me on.
Uh, it's an actual pleasure having you on,
because you are one of the most exciting documentary filmmakers
working today, and your new project
is bound to get people talking.
Dreamland: The Burning of Black Wall Street.
I mean, this is a story
that, shockingly, very few people in America
and around the world actually know about.
And when you look at it, it seems like
one of the most consequential stories
in and around Black people building Black wealth
and then having everything taken away from them
merely because of the color of their skin.
The question I would have first is why the title Dreamland
when it's about a massacre that was so painful in America?
Ooh. What a great question, right?
When we tell stories about Black people in America,
uh, a lot of times, the stories are, um...
They are dire. They are sad.
They are of traum-trauma and poverty
and all the bad things that have happened to us in this country.
Um, and that is true.
Tul... You know, this story about Tulsa,
this massacre, is a story about something bad
that happened to Black people here in America,
but it's also a story
about this place that was a dream,
that felt like a dreamland, right?
And, like, for me, um, like, when I watched...
I know this is gonna sound so cliché,
but when I watched Black Panther, right,
and you see Wakanda, right?
And you can make jokes about it, but it was the first time
I'd seen Black people on-screen look and feel so grand
-and feel like, "Oh, okay." -Right. Right, right.
We could have been that. That's what we could be.
But it's like, no, dreamland. We were that.
We-we have been that in America before.
So I-I want to tell the story of the dreamland
that was here in the heartland of America.
What I love about that title is exactly what you just said,
and-and I think it's a story
that doesn't get told enough, you know?
One of... One of the narratives
that often gets spun in America about Black people is,
"Oh, Black people don't want to work hard.
"Black people want handouts. Black people...
Just pull yourselves up. You can get over it."
But what this story talks to
is a world where Black people did exactly that.
They overcame all the odds.
They built an entire place that was theirs.
They made it thrive. And, I mean,
the title Black Wall Street told it all.
Tell me a little bit about that place,
the place that people don't often talk about,
and what made it so special.
It's funny, because whenever some, uh...
When I was pitching the story, a lot of people said,
"Black Wall Street. So, like, there was a trading floor?
-There was, like, a... It was like NASDAQ, right?" -(laughs)
Like, no, it's not Black Wall Street.
It's-it's, you know, it is, uh, a metaphor
for the financial prosperity
that this place called Greenwood,
-an outskirt of Tulsa, um... -Mm-hmm.
It is a metaphor for that.
Uh, and this place, Greenwood,
the reason it existed is because...
'Cause we're talking about the 1920s, right?
This is a booming time in American history.
Um, this is...
There's an oil boom in Oklahoma and Tulsa,
and what happens is, at the same time,
Black people are not allowed to go into, you know,
uh, uh, white, uh, you know...
be patrons in white businesses.
-Right, right. -Right?
Um, and, so, Black people, at this time,
in Greenwood, in Tulsa, they had to create their own.
So, something that is, you know, almost this, uh...
You know, you're segregated from going to these places,
but then you also have to create your own.
They were almost forced to create their own thing,
forced to create this utopia.
A lot of people, uh, when they hear about Tulsa,
the massacre... It happened 100 years ago.
And they say, "Okay, this thing happened 100 years ago.
"It was an event, and it...
And then it ended. And now it's all done."
Uh, wh-what I would love people to understand
is that 100 years of the...
You know, that 100 years... It's still happening.
The massacre is still happening,
uh, through gentrification,
through urban, uh, renewal,
what they call urban removal,
meaning taking people out of their homes
and, you know, building schools
or building, um, universities or...
You know, really taking people out of their homes.
Um, so, this is not a story of 1921.
It's a story of 1921 to 2021.
What I... What I appreciate about the telling of this story
is how it touches on the idea
of the compound effects of anything.
You know, oftentimes, people will talk about, you know,
injustice or-or massacres
or-or anything that was done to a group of people
and they'll be like, "That was so long ago.
Get over it. Blah, blah, blah."
But they say it as if they don't understand
the compound "interest" of trauma and pain
when they do understand the compound interest
of actual money.
So, what you touch on in this documentary
is how you take from somebody yesterday,
it'll infect... it'll-it'll affect them
not just that day but today and tomorrow
and for many tomorrows
because that wealth is generational.
Absolutely. It's generational wealth.
I was talking about this oil boom
that happened in the 1920s.
Um, like, people are still eating off that oil.
-Right. -Families are still eating off that oil.
A-And, so, um, the fact
that this Black community was wiped out,
all this wealth, all this stuff that was lost...
And not even... It's, like, you know,
it's not even just wealth. It's family photos.
-It's, uh, history. -Right. Right.
It's knowing of one's self, right?
And it's completely just, um, obliterated.
Um, and, so, the trauma still persists today.
And, you know, you can make as many...
You can put as many memorials out,
you know, do commemorations,
but to be real, going down there,
people want cold, hard reparations, you know?
Like, they-they...
I mean, money is what's going to help.
There are sur... There are still three survivors
who are in, um, Tulsa.
-Uh, um, 106 years old, 107 years old... -Wow.
-Wow. -...who are still alive, um,
who, you know, never saw anything.
-Never saw... -Wow.
Barely saw "sorry," right?
Um, and, so, I think, uh, it's time
for us to not just be telling these stories
but actually doing something that's tangible,
uh, for these people and for these communities.
Uh, what's really... What's really amazing about this story
is, as you said earlier, you were pitching it to people,
and you-you went around trying to find somebody
to help you make the project.
Um, your teammates now are none other than LeBron James
and Mav Carter, a powerhouse team.
Um, why did you choose them, and why did you think,
"You know what? These are the perfect people
to make this story with"?
Trevor, you think I chose them?
You think I chose...?
-Nobody... -You did choose them.
You pitched to them, so you chose them.
Tr-Trevor, nobody wanted, um...
I pitched this many years ago.
It wasn't the first time that I pitched this story.
And the... Years ago,
no one wanted to do it because it felt too scary.
-I think. That's what I... -Wow.
I think it felt too scary. It didn't feel real,
so I gave up on it for a few years.
And then, um, I don't know, what...
Last year, I said, "You know what?
I'm gonna do this. Like, I'm gonna do this."
I talked to all the people I needed to talk to,
and I literally... I think I sent it out to SpringHill,
and maybe in a matter of days, they came back and were like,
"Let's do this. We want to do this."
So, like, that-that's the story. I don't know how it happened,
you know, uh, but I'm happy that they wanted to do it.
Like, they were the first ones who wanted to do it,
so that's dope. Thank you, LeBron. Thank you, Maverick.
Wow, LeBron with another assist. He never stops.
Um, I really hope people watch the story,
and, uh, I hope you make many, many more documentaries.
Congratulations on your journey. Thank you for taking the time.
Thank you so much.