So, Mitzi, it's COP26.
They've had 25 COPs — - Exactly.
And they haven't managed to get us
anywhere near — away from the disaster line.
Tell me a little bit
what it's like to come to these conferences
when this is just one event,
and you're spending the rest of the year doing the hard work.
So what do these events mean in an activist's life?
One of the most important things I see in these events
is having people coming together from across cultures and across
countries and across movements, and using this unique opportunity
that we're all here together in person and thoroughly connect
and build those bridges and build those connections,
because that's how you build
climate justice — by connecting with other people
that you haven't worked with before.
But also, it's such a crucial moment
to really come together
and pressure world leaders. Because they're here, right?
They're right here in front of you,
sometimes walking along the same streets as you.
And that's the time
when you really have to just go, "Hey, we're here.
"You need to listen to us.
"We need to do action right now."
So you were with the
United Nations Secretary- General yesterday.
Did you throw your hands up in the air and wave,
like, "What are you doing? You're not listening!"
Or did you construct a very, very well-arranged argument
for the reasons that shows
climate justice should be at the top of his agenda?
I'm assuming the latter.
He is actually really like on the same page as us.
He's also really there in making sure that we're
fighting alongside
people and making sure that
1.5 degrees Celsius is still on the table, and that we fight for that.
I would say there needs to be a little bit
more pressure on world leaders, especially —
- Right, so — because you activists are always told
you're impractical, you're idealistic, you're not
you're not part of the real fabric of what's going on here.
You know, all the negotiations are happening and
and — but you guys are sort of the picture.
It's what the media wants to cover. Is that
the reality of what you're experiencing
or do you think that
actually activism is finally paying dividends?
I think activism is so important because it's what scares world
leaders into acting. - Right.
Like without activism in all forms, not just the ones
in the streets, but
also the ones who are lobbying, also the ones who are talking to
the politicians.
This is what gets people to act,
and we need all forms of activism
so that we can push world leaders
towards the right direction. Because they're not listening.
And are you, are you the idealist, or are you the pragmatist?
I mean, the world leaders will always say,
"Well, you know, it's really hard,
"and we've got to think about the coal mines
"and the tech giants, and the world." You know?
Do you fight and are you just like — I mean, what do you say to that,
that you are the idealist and they are the pragmatists?
Well, my question is, why is that idealistic,
the fight for our lives?
Why is it idealistic to ask for basic human rights?
Really, we're just asking for them to finally listen
to the people in the planet and prioritize that over profit.
And yet we're being called "radical." We're being called
"radical." And we just want to make sure that no one
is compromising on our lives, and that no one is left behind.
Do you think that, I mean, the climate justice
issue has really come to the forefront this year
specifically, I would say?
There seems to be a lot
more conscious effort
to make sure we have
different voices in this discussion. Is it tokenism?
I think it's a shift in the narrative,
and it can turn into tokenism really easily.
Have you become a token? Have you experienced it?
Yes, I have — - Oh really? Oh no!
If it's not careful, if we're not doing it in the right way.
If you don't know how to redirect the attention in the right way
also, you can become a token really easily.
World leaders will take a selfie
with you and be like, "Oh, I've listened to the
"youth, I've listened to the people of color."
And that's not what we need. That's not what we want.
If you want this to not become tokenism,
if you want this UN climate
summit to actually do something, it has to go beyond inclusivity
and go beyond representation — and actually listening.
So tell the viewers of this right now,
tell them how to not be a "photo opportunity" like you have been.
I mean, that must be so, just, heartbreaking to see.
But how do we avoid that as activists, as those people
who either directly
or indirectly want to be part of climate justice conversation?
You just have to make sure that you're very clear
with your message
that when you want world leaders to act,
that's what you say. And you call them out
when they're doing things like this. You call them out
When they're being tokenistic, you call them out
when they take their selfies and don't actually listen to you.
And at the end of the day,
what matters is — it doesn't matter if you have a meeting,
it doesn't matter if you get to sit down with them.
What matters is they listen to you and they act.
I love that advice.
You don't need to be in a meeting room
or a negotiation table
to be heard. Is that what you're saying? - Exactly, exactly.
I mean, you're very wise for your age.
I sound like such an old lady now,
but you're very wise for your age, and I'm sure
there's a lot of experience that comes with it.
Do you make sure that you're looking after yourself,
your mental health, that you — because you're
sick right now, because you've been working
nonstop for two and a half days, I know this.
But how do you make sure that you're looking
after your own well-being?
I like to put very clear boundaries with myself,
so I tell people, I tell media,
if I don't want to be in your interviews, "That's it. I'm sorry."
And especially because there are
so many of us here that you can talk to.
It doesn't have to always be me, right?
And I think like the capitalist, profit-oriented mindset
that this system is brought upon us is that you have to
constantly work yourself off. - Yes.
But in that sense, rest is actually resistance,
because we need you in the long term.
We need you to be able to fight this long fight
that we're fighting.
And to do that, you have to take care of yourself.
So in a way, taking care of yourself is part of activism.
And that's how I view it
so that I can force myself to take care of myself,
because it's part of my duties as an activist.
But you're also not taking the day off.
This is what — this is
what activism is,
is giving great advice and taking only some of it.
What are your hopes for this COP?
I know that you haven't been to any of the negotiation tables.
I mean, you can walk in, right, you can go and actively see this.
That's pretty amazing.
But you want to go to these negotiations. Why?
I want to hear firsthand
how these world leaders are betraying us.
I want the see, firsthand, how they slap our faces
with all these empty words and promises
and see how we can build pressure on that
so that they change their minds.
This is opposition research.
You're you're going there to see how they are treating —
about you, about activism.
What is the one positive
thing that you think is going to come out of this?
What is the one solution you are hoping will come out of this?
It's not really a hope.
It's a demand and an expectation. - Right.
We need drastic carbon
dioxide emission cuts, and we need reparations
from the global north to the global south
so that the global south can adapt and manage
with the loss and damages that we're already experiencing.
All of this and more has to happen at this UN
climate summit because
people are already suffering the climate crisis today.
Thank you so much for talking to me. - Thank you so much.