- [Alan] You're an outspoken advocate for
both hustle and self-awareness. - [Gary] Yes.
- But if you had to put them in order,
even if it's a 1A and 1B--
- [Gary] Self-awareness. - Self-awareness.
- [Gary] And it's not even close.
Yes, when you know who you are, hustle is sexier.
- [Alan] Yeah.
- Like it would've be cooler for like the people listening for me
to say hustle 'cause it's cooler.
- [Alan] Mhmmm. - Self-awareness is the game.
So, I love sports.
I don't play a lot. I'm old now, I'm 40.
I try to play.
I wish we could've played this morning.
- [Alan] Yeah.
- I'm sorry I had to miss it but what you would've noticed very
quickly is I have no left hand because
I didn't have older brothers.
I didn't have anybody teaching me to go to,
like when my brother, AJ's a much better player because when
he was nine I forced him to only play lefty which allowed him to
have both sides of the ball.
I'm self-aware that I don't have a left hand.
One of the reasons I don't get the ball stolen so much and when
you play pickup basketball is I try not to go that direction
that much if somebody's smart and paying attention,
they'll recognize it by game two or three and they'll be able to
defend me better.
But when you know yourself, you win.
In business, the reason I've been so successful is I know
what I'm good at and I know what I'm not good at.
- [Alan] Yeah.
- And so when you actually understand yourself.
You know how many people are listening right now that love
athletics and think they have a jump shot and think they can
take it to the rack. - [Alan] You see it daily.
- That's right and instead of taking a step back and saying
I suck going to my left and then working on it--
- [Alan] Yep.
- they continue to bullshit themselves and they never excel.
Self-awareness in sports is that and in business it's people that
think they're good a marketer or it's somebody who thinks that
they're good at selling or it's somebody who thinks they're good
at HR or being a leader and the truth is you may not be and
I think you look at,
I'm friendly with Draymond Green.
- [Alan] Yeah.
- His self-awareness has made him a much better basketball
player because he knew what he was good at.
- [Alan] Yeah.
- And Tom Izzo did a great, does a great job with that
if you look at why Michigan.
You know this better than I do, I'm just dangerous enough
to add to this conversation. - [Alan] Of course.
- He puts players in a position to succeed then
the whole team is better.
You know and so, my friends, if you're listening right now,
if you just know who you are, if you know that you're short,
if you know that your fast, if you know that you can shoot,
if you know that you're a good guy,
if you know that your patient gal,
if you know who you are and do more of that and then also
understand whether you need to work on those weaknesses or not.
So for example in business, I think actually not working on
your weaknesses is a good strategy because you hire or
partner up around it.
The problem with basketball is, just being cliché here is,
if never work in your left hand you're never gonna have it.
- [Alan] Right.
- So, you know, and it limits you so I think self-awareness is
the single most important drug in society.
- [Alan] Wow.
Why do most people lack it? Is it ignorance or fear?
- Bot, I think it's a lot of things.
- [Alan] Most people are not self-aware.
I'll be fully transparent.
I wasn't self-aware 'til about three years ago when I went
through counseling for a divorce
and it completely transformed my life.
You seem like someone that's been self-aware forever so
I guess the first part of the question is how long have you
been self-aware and where did that come from?
And then the second is why isn't everybody else?
- You know, it's funny I think and this gets
into a whole 'nother thing.
I wonder if true self-confidence,
like true, is actually the unlock.
I think I've been self-aware a long time because I had crazy
self-confidence when I shouldn't have.
- [Alan] Yeah, okay.
- When you're a freshman in high school and you're 4-11 and
you're book bag is bigger than you,
you shouldn't be as
confident as I was. (Alan laughs)
Do you know what I mean?
And that goes back to great parenting and that is I think
the reason I've over-indexed in the business world is
I think people see my purity.
Which is I want to be the best. - [Alan] Yep.
- But I don't want it at your expense.
- [Alan] Right.
- I just want to be the best and if I'm not Mazel Tov,
you're better congratulations and if I am,
I'm gonna to stick in your mouth.
- [Alan] Yeah.
- And I'm gonna talk shit and I'm gonna fucking own it.
I'm gonna love it, right? - [Alan] Love it.
- But if you beat me like this last week
we went to Chattanooga, Tennessee.
We played the Bellhops guys from a startup down there and the
Vayner guys we lost all five games and I'm pissed and
I hate them and hope their company goes out of business--
- [Alan] Yeah.
- but I give them respect they won and listen when you have a
6-7 walk on Auburn when playing pickup basketball you're gonna
lose but I think the punchline
is I respect the game even at my own expense.
- [Alan] Yeah.
- I don't want to be a hypocrite.
I think there's DNA, I think there's parenting,
I think there's a lot of variables.
If you didn't get lucky with the right environment,
you didn't get lucky with the right parents,
it's gonna be harder for you.
I think I was blessed. I do think I was lucky.
I believe that.
It doesn't take away the fact that is true.
- [Alan] Right.
- You know, like people say,
"Well, you're lucky." Fine but it's true.
People say, "Oh, you're a white male in society.
"You have it better."
You're right but it doesn't change what's happening.
- [Alan] Doesn't change the outcome.
- I think too many people get romantic about
the way they want it.
So I was in Birmingham, Alabama and somebody said,
"Hey, gentrification's happening,
"how do we let minorities win in business?"
I'm like, "Win in business." - [Alan] Yeah.
- And I used basketball,
I go, "How do we get more white players in the NBA?
"They have to be good." - [Alan] Yeah.
- The market is the market is the market.
- [Alan] It's the only way.
- The market is the market is the market.
And so I would tell you going on the life kick right now nobody
cares about your problems.
I just have bad news for everybody,
nobody cares that you don't have time to practice.
Nobody cares that you didn't grow up with money.
Nobody cares that you came from a bad neighborhood.
As a matter of fact, you know who I think's in the worst
position in startup business world?
Rich white kids 'cause they're fucking soft.
- [Alan] Yeah.
- And they've been pampered and private schools and Ivy League
school and become a sort of business in the market says
I don't care who your mama was.
- [Alan] Right. - I don't care what daddy.
Daddy can't donate to the market to make you win.
Got it? - [Alan] Got it.
- And that's why my kid, for example,
Xander Vaynerchuk if you're listening,
you're four years old you will not score a basket at home.
The reason you have zero baskets on me is 'cause the market's not
to treat you any different than daddy's treating you right now
so if you listening to this right in recall and you're 13
and you're plotting how you're gonna beat me on one on one
telling you right now, nine years from now,
I'm 49 I'm in the best shape of my life and I'mma beat your
fucking ass until you can actually beat me.
- [Alan] Yeah, but when he does,
it'll be real and it'll be pure--
- That's why AJ's a better player than me.
AJ's when he beat me at 16 or 17,
first of all, it tasted delicious.
- [Alan] Yes.
- And second of all, it's because he became a
better player and now I work my face off to try to beat him.
- [Alan] Yeah. Awesome.
Hustle and hard work are they synonyms or
is there a difference?
I know you tend to use the word hustle more.
- Yeah, I think they're slang and the same thing.
I mean look, guys, nobody's been successful on pure talent.
- [Alan] Correct. - Right?
Again, I'm being very sport here 'cause I love sports and
I love the basketball stuff.
If that was the case the number one pick in the NBA draft would
always be a superstar. - [Alan] Right.
- It's not just talent.
It's why all these, it's why the NBA draft is such a crapshoot.
People look at intangibles and talent too much.
- [Alan] Yeah.
- That's why Draymond can go in the second round when it was
black and white he was the heart of the team and
he was gonna be a good player.
Like it's just real. - [Alan] Yeah.
- There's a lot more Draymonds
and Wayne Chrebets than you realize.
They just come in different shapes and sizes.
They don't have to be,
Wayne Chrebets insanity, football.
- [Alan] Yep.
- Draymond's a second round pick so it's not that insane.
It comes like, pick 11.
Why is Steph not number one overall?
You know it went to Davis.
The intangibles, the speed, this and that but you can't
judge heart and the intangibles
are everything in life and hard work.
- [Alan] Yeah.
- There's way too many people that give up under adversity
especially when they've had it easy.
If you're an NBA player or if you're a whiz kid,
business kid that went to good schools you've had it so easy.
What happens when they punch you?
You know that leap from college star to NBA star?
Hard core. - [Alan] Yeah.
- That's a whole different world.
A lot of those kids fail 'cause
they got punched in the mouth the first time.
They were the best player in middle school.
- [Alan] Without a doubt.
- Best player in high school and they were even the best player
in college and then they get to the pros and they lose.
You know, back to business, a lot of these kids lose 'cause
they never were the best player.
They were the fake best player.
They were the best student. - [Alan] Yeah.
- Great, you got an A in business class.
That shit is bullshit.
That's like me being good at NBA 2K.
- [Alan] Right. - That's fake.
What happens when you actually start a business?
So, I make a lot of parallels from business and sports and
I do think hustle is actually one of the two core...
ingredients. - [Alan] Yeah.
- It is hard work and hustle/talent that's the
formula, always and forever. 'Cause timing is talent.
You can force yourself in to any timing.
I know that meditation's gonna be big.
I know that e-sports are going to be big.
That's not timing, that's my talent of observing consumer
behavior and making bets.
I didn't get lucky.
I didn't have a talent for that.
I'm pointing at my Twitter and Tumblr stock.
Right? - [Alan] Right.
- That wasn't luck. That wasn't timing.
That was the world is going to be all about social media.
I'm gonna invest in Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr.
That was talent.
That was understanding where humans were gonna be.
- [Alan] So by your definition of talent,
how much of it is something you're born with and how much of
it is you pounding-- - Born!
- [Alan] craft?
- Born and then the hard work is banging away.
- [Alan] Okay.
- Like I had people intuition but I may be didn't deploy in
a business world and then I was just right about trends
and I can always be on my bowling team be like I knew
Uber was to be big but I didn't do anything about it.
- [Alan] Right. - I didn't deploy it.
That was just intuition that
I was just a good guy at the bar, you know, got it?
- [Alan] Absolutely.
- Talent is real, guys. - [Alan] Oh for sure.
- Like you see it every day.
Go look at third graders playing basketball.
I don't know how young you go or what you see.
Like it's there.
I was making money as a six-year-old selling lemonade
and then baseball cards. I didn't read a business book.
I was six.
There was no time to hone my talent.
It was in me then I put in the work every day.
You know, I associate with athletes because
I punted school too.
Just so everybody knows, everybody who's made the league
in whatever league, they stopped caring about algebra and science
somewhere around second grade.
I was the same.
I got Ds and Fs my whole life because I knew was gonna be a
businessman and long before businessmen and entrepreneurs
were gonna be cool, I fought the system.
I had the self-esteem to pull it off.
I thought my teachers were wrong.
I knew I wasn't a loser.
You know I'm an '80s, '90s kid
when education was the whole game.
There was no entrepreneurship and I fought the market and did
my thing and it worked out for me.
- [Alan] What guides your decision making mostly now?
Is it instinct or experience?
- Legacy. - [Alan] Ah!
- I make most my decisions now based on
what is it gonna mean to my legacy.
It's quite vain, actually.
It's me writing the history of my life in real time but a lot
of it comes from legacy. - [Alan] Love it.
- I want to know how people think about,
you know how nice it is to hear your intro?
Do you know how, like somebody tweeted that they think I'm a
good guy because of the things they've heard from you.
- [Alan] Yes.
- See one of the great things is the truth is undefeated.
Doing the right thing is always the right thing.
- [Alan] Love that.
- I have no idea who you influence or who you know but
just doing the right thing by anybody you come across you just
never know and so I like a good, I want a good legacy.
- [Alan] It's like telling the truth.
If you always tell the truth then you don't have to worry
about what web you've created. - Yeah.
- [Alan] Last question for you, my friend.
I'm guessing you started VaynerMedia 'cause you saw a
void in the digital media space.
Is that why you started VaynerSports?
- It's not why I started VaynerMedia.
- [Alan] Oh, okay.
- And it's not why I started of VaynerSports.
I started VaynerMedia because I wanted to build the greatest
marketing machine of all-time then buy businesses and
run it through it. - [Alan] Okay.
- I didn't realize how horrible the other agencies were at
digital and specifically social marketing and that's
why got to build a very
big company out of lack of competition.
- [Alan] Okay.
- No joke, even though it seems like a competitive space.
As far as VaynerSports,
oh God, what a potpourri of circumstances.
I basically was wearing a weird
Jets jersey that that somebody took a picture of.
The agent of that player hit me up we created a relationship,
he had a very small agency called Symmetry Sports.
We became friendly.
He had his own business dynamics.
In parallel on top of that narrative that I'm telling you,
my brother AJ has Crohn's disease,
he wanted to get out of VaynerMedia 'cause it is a lot
of pressure and he didn't like it anymore.
That other guy Mook calls me one they randomly and says,
"Do you want to buy my sports agency?"
I'm thinking in the back of my head maybe this is something me
and AJ can do once he's out of Vayner in a year.
Doesn't seem like that much and then I said yes as an
entrepreneur and then what's happened so I went with my
intuition and now I'm realizing oh my God these kids are not
being I mean whoa...
I mean these agents are not, you know and I know I don't want to
be unfair and paint everybody the same way.
- [Alan] Right.
- But a stunning percentage of these agents really don't give a
crap about these kids.
It's a meat market. They could care less.
What if I did what I did in the wine business and the
advertising and startup world?
What if I care more than everybody?
I have a feeling that caring more in this business actually's
gonna give me even more legs.
Do know what my dream is?
If and when, and I think it's when,
when we do the NBA, I'm gonna stay in that genre 'cause we're
doing NFL first. - [Alan] Yep.
- That I get the number four pick in the NBA draft and he has
a Paul George like injury and never plays in preseason.
Never plays, fourth pick in the draft and then I take care of
that kid for the rest my life. Help them learn business.
Work with him. Get them into startup.
Write a book about his adversity.
Build a podcast around him like change his life.
Have a, show the world what I'm really doing here which is
anybody that signs with VaynerSports it's for life.
- [Alan] Yeah.
- That was me spitting into my hand.
- [Alan] Love it.
- It's everything. It's everything.
This kid right here.
Vernon Adams one of our first clients
when I bought into the agency.
It still says Symmetry team as you see on the jersey up here.
He didn't get drafted.
He was supposed to go in the fifth or sixth round but I guess
the NFL deemed them too undersized.
He crushed at Oregon for anybody listening.
Then he doesn't get UDF aid which was stunning.
Where is he now?
The CFL and we spent a lot of money to put them in the right
position to succeed on a $500 commission check.
- [Alan] Always do right.
- Always do right 'cause he's the best dude.
His family's the best and I still think he's gonna do a
Warren Moon and Doug Flutie and come in the NFL and dominate and
it's gonna feel better than ever.
And if it doesn't, that's just the way the market reacted and
I just know that we'll do anything we can
to do right by him.
So I think in the, I hope when I die that some of
the conversations around my death are,
"Well, he changes the sports industry forever because when he
"started VaynerSports with the other guys what Mook,
"Brian, AJ and Gary did at VaynerSports was they took care
"of players in such a way it forced Rock Nation,
"it forced CAA, it forced Drew Rosenhaus,
"it forced Doug Conna, it forced all these people to care more
"just to compete with them and it changed the market forever."
I love that legacy.
- [Alan] That's a hell of a legacy.
Thank you so much for your time.
- Thanks for having me, boss.
- [Alan] I appreciate you, brother.
- Love you, man.