- You know, praise God.
You can have a seat.
So today, you know why we're all here,
we're gonna quiet our minds. (gunshots)
- [Narrator] Welcome to First Person Defender
where regular people come
face to face with unknown attackers.
- Whoa whoa whoa. - Whoa whoa!
- Guy with a gun! - Whoa whoa, drop the gun,
Sir drop the gun, drop it, drop the gun!
Come after me, drop the gun, do it now!
- [Narrator] And fight their way out.
(intense music)
This is First Person Defender.
- Churches are supposed to be places of peace.
Unfortunately, they have been targeted by shooters,
by murderers, what do you do if a shooting
breaks out at your church?
Can you handle all of the moving parts?
All that right now on First Person Defender.
(light music)
- [Announcer] These force on force scenarios
use training guns that fire non-lethal projectiles.
- I've only been shooting for 10 years
and I'm at retirement age now, that's for sure.
I do work park time as an armored car driver.
So I do wear a gun every day.
- What I like about Tom is he's an older dog
and it's not true that you can't teach them new tricks.
He is one of those guys that wants to learn new tricks,
he's out there, he's learned a new hobby
the last 10 years, he's learning all kinds of new things,
he's doing force on force training,
he wants to become responsible for
himself and his own security,
I think that's a really great trait in a guy like him.
- I was robbed at gun point on a route truck I was on
back in 2010, it was one of those life changing moments.
It changed my perception of good and evil in this world
and you know I always thought well that happens to somebody
else and it never happens to me.
But it did, broad daylight in the middle of the summer.
A couple weeks later, they had a no tax gun sale goin' on
and I said this is time for me to buy a gun.
Didn't touch it, didn't put ammo in it until I had
a private lesson at a gun shop
and a couple months later I got my conceal carry license.
- One of the places that we really do see
quite a bit of attention in active shooter situations
is churches, so having a scenario inside of a church
is not really outside of the realm of possibility.
We train in Ohio, we train a lot of church security services
I know that there are a lot of teams in other states
and there's a lot of people that carry in church
because they can, and if they can,
they certainly do and rightfully so.
- [Announcer] Nothing ever happens at church,
Tom is enjoying the service when a couple of late arrivals
put him on edge, is he ready to respond in a timely manner?
Or will he falter under pressure?
- [Ryan] I'm glad that we're able to get back in church.
And you know, for a while we had to do
all this stuff on Zoom and all that
and so no more Zoom church,
so we're actually all here together.
So that's good!
- Amen! - So we can get
started all right?
So we'll start out like we always do,
everybody just stand up for me, everybody rise, okay.
And kind of quiet your minds and quiet your cell phones
and prepare yourself for the service today, okay.
All right, everybody you can be seated.
All right, so what we're gonna do today
is like we do every Sunday, we're just gonna get together
and you know, praise God,
you can have a seat.
So, today you know why we're all here.
We're gonna quiet our minds. (gunshots)
- Oh. - Uch!
- No. - Down, down!
- Get down, get down! (gunshots)
(intense music)
(gunshots)
- [Tom] Get down!
Somebody call 9-1-1!
Down, down!
Drop it, drop it.
(intense music)
Drop it, move.
Everyone okay?
Did you call 9-1-1?
- [Chris] Yeah, I'm on 9-1-1 right now.
There's been a shooting at the church at the FRC.
- [Tom] Is she okay?
Somebody check.
- [Chris] End ex, end ex, end ex.
(dramatic music)
All right Tom, so tell me what happened.
- Whoa, church started up and someone jumped over there
and start shootin' people.
So I got up, I had my gun with me
and addressed the situation.
- What was the most difficult part of that?
- [Tom] Probably the biggest part was other people
bein' up and around and I didn't wanna strike anybody
that was innocent there, that's why I yelled down.
- I had a feeling there was somebody
that was panicking really close to you.
- Absolutely. - In your way.
- [Tom] Tried to get away as soon as I could.
- [Chris] Soon as you could?
- [Tom] I didn't know, I thought that was a threat there.
- [Chris] Was there some one handed--
One of the things I noticed too,
was there a malfunction with your gun?
- Yes. - What happened?
- [Tom] I pulled the trigger and nothing happened.
I did a tap rack.
- Seemed like you might've wounded him,
'cause he didn't go hard, did he?
- [Tom] No, that's why I kept my pistol on him,
kept the pistol out.
- [Chris] Kept waving that pistol around
and he just kept standing there bigger than life.
I mean, what if he would've shot you.
- [Tom] I was watchin' that pistol,
I could've got hit.
- Listen, when the bad guy went down,
he still had that gun in his hand
and he was still kind of alive, right?
All right so you went over there
and you kind of kicked that gun away,
well what I prefer to do is I either prefer to leave it
so I don't have to get really close to 'em
and then just cover 'em,
or if I could after a little bit of time
maybe I get antsy 'cause I'm tired of coverin' him
and I'm tired of watchin' his hand on that gun,
I would just come up there and put my foot on it
and drag it away. - Okay.
- We're accountable for all those rounds
that we put down range though, right?
- Absolutely. - Got one over there
on the wall and there could've been someone over there.
Grip sights and trigger.
So we need to work on accuracy with you.
- Okay.
- We need to work on clearing people that are a problem
for you because if he, if he would've,
I didn't see exactly what he did
but we gotta get him away from us.
- It's good to have options when you carry,
Kimber makes a lot of guns,
a lot of options there, you've got the Evo,
you've got the K6S revolver,
so we appreciate Kimber America's support,
check 'em out at KimberAmerica.com.
- So, the bad guy starts shooting, KJ starts nuttin' up
and I'm like jeez get away from me, get away from me.
Then you started, you were gettin' up too.
As he's doin' this, this is my control point on anybody.
What I'm gonna do, tell him get away from me,
and then come out with my gun okay.
So when I hook him and I move him but I can hook
because where the head goes, the body goes.
- Right.
- So then the gun comes out and I've got
my bad guy down range.
Shawn, I want you to start movin' quickly.
(gunshots)
Did I miss ya? - No.
- Did I miss ya ever? - No.
- See eyes wide open,
all I wanna do is see through the sights.
I want you to do that same thing.
Okay so Tom, go ahead and have a seat,
let's do the first thing,
let's work on the move of gettin' him out of your way.
So let's do this real slow.
So the bad guy starts shooting.
KJ panics and gets in your lap and says get down,
get down, get down. - Get down, go down, get down.
- Wrong hand! - Ah!
- Wrong hand because that hands gotta be goin' for your gun!
- But he had his hand, his arm on me, I gotta move 'em?
- [Chris] That's all right you get him off you,
you say you get down, get the hell out of my way.
- Get down, get out of my way.
- [Chris] Hook him by the neck.
If you were in my way and I had a gun in my hand
and I came up here and I grabbed you like this.
Can you, can you feel how I move you?
- Yes. - (laughs) It's very little.
So that's what you're lookin' for,
now hook onto my neck like that.
Yeah, you can hook on there,
you can pull and push down.
You can hook around from the side even,
hook the neck, not the shoulders.
You pull, pull me towards, there you go,
see how you're pullin'. - Yeah.
- As soon as you start hookin' me
and pullin' me that way, I go.
So that's what you're doin' with these people.
So somebody comes up, they get in your way,
you're like no, get back, get out of the way, get behind me.
Guns comin' out, 'cause this hand might be full already.
You might already have your gun in your hand.
- Yeah. - So this hand
is all you've got, I mean it's okay to grab onto people
and shirts, when you grab them by the neck,
you hook them by the back of the neck like that,
it starts movin' 'em.
(Tom laughing) All right here we go,
the shooting starts, KJ says--
- Get down, get down. - No you get down!
You get down!
(gunshots)
- [Chris] Keep shooting if he keeps moving.
- Ow, ow! - All right.
Okay that's good, he felt that one.
- [Shooter] Yeah!
- Shooter shooter. - Get down, get down.
Get down! - Get out of the way!
- [Chris] Get that gun out.
(gunshots)
Sights on target.
(gunshots)
- It's our sponsors that make this possible,
Ruger has been there from the very beginning.
One of their most popular guns right now
is the PC Charger Pistol.
Very cool, compact nine millimeter.
Check them out at Ruger.com.
(intense music)
- In scenario training,
especially in force on force training,
we see a lot of people that just thrust the gun
out in front of them when they're presented with a threat.
They thrust it out at chest or chin level.
No matter what the distance is to the target.
Well, most of the times, the targets close enough
that they luck into some hits.
But the misses are what concerns me.
They put sights on a gun for a reason.
The sights help you drive the muzzle towards the target.
I wanna show you the difference between chest or chin level
firing at 20 feet, and using the sights to some degree.
Now I've got a popular carry pistol here,
this has a little more sights than some of them.
Folks generally fire between two and four rounds
when they do these scenarios,
so since I have six in here,
I'll do three unsighted and three sighted.
I'm gonna try and do 'em at lethal threat speed,
just like you'd see in a scenario.
So here's chest or chin level.
(rock music) (gunshots)
I got two misses but I walked one in.
So this time, I'm gonna use the sights,
let's see the difference.
(rock music) (gunshots)
(rock music)
Huge difference just having that little bit of reference,
I'm looking at the target but I'm looking through the sights
and after all, you're responsible for every round
that comes out of your firearm.
(rock music)
- [Announcer] First Person Defender brought to you by
Crimson Trace.
Springfield Armory.
GunTalkTV.com.
And Ruger.
Tom was singing Hallelujah once again
when the church service is disrupted.
When shots ring out during the service,
will Tom put an end to the violence?
- Raise some money for it, so that'll be good.
So, anyway, looks like we're about time to start.
All right, so let's start like we do every time,
everybody stand up.
All right, everybody kind of silence your minds,
silence your phones and all that stuff
and we'll get started here in just a minute.
One thing that we gotta remember is
you know this kind of our--
(gunshots)
- Call 9-1-1!
- Okay! - Is everybody okay?
Check him out.
- [Woman] I got the police on the phone!
- Good.
(intense music)
- [Chris] All right, what do you want
her to tell the police?
- Tell them we've got one down, active shooter, down.
Send an ambulance.
Everybody else okay?
- [Chris] End ex, end ex, end ex.
(dramatic music)
What happened?
- I'm gonna go find another church.
(Chris laughing)
- All right, little different this time.
- Definitely.
- [Chris] Tell me what you experienced.
- [Tom] Well I was kind of watching the room
as I was coming in, saw someone standing at the back
and I thought well what's goin' on here,
I didn't know if he was an usher or whatever
but he came in real quick and started firing.
So I got up, was goin' over,
took him on I guess.
- Well, it did happen very fast,
it looked to me like you connected with your first shot.
He kept comin' at you,
and he was kind of goin' forward, goin' forward,
what'd you do?
- [Tom] I think I hesitated.
I shoot him and he kept firing.
- You did, you shot him some more.
Listen, you should never answer questions
immediately after a shooting.
- Ah!
(Chris laughing)
Let me talk to my lawyer first.
- Yes, 'cause it's very hard
to remember everything. - Right.
- And I'm havin' to jog your brain,
I had a good seat this time.
It jumped off fast, didn't it?
- Oh yes, oh yeah.
- I was right behind ya.
When it happened, it was fast.
- Very much.
- [Chris] How long do you think it took?
- [Tom] Maybe four or five seconds.
Now the whole scenario all the way to the end
was probably less than a minute I would think.
- So, when law enforcement and safety services
is only a matter of minutes away.
- Well just wait for 'em!
- No. - No
(men laughing)
- All right, hand me your gun,
let's see how many times you shot.
- All right. - Okay.
- All right, you shot four times
and you had four hits.
- I like that.
- (laughs) So do I.
When you have somebody get on the phone,
you gotta tell 'em say,
let them know there's been a shooting,
everybody says there's an active shooter, shooter down.
That doesn't mean anything to dispatch.
They have no idea what that stuff means.
- No.
- You guys have gotta say something like
let them know there's been a shooting,
tell them I'm a conceal carry citizen,
I'm okay but the shooter has been neutralized.
The shooters been taken down.
There's no more shooting right now.
Let 'em know what I'm wearin'.
I'm wearin' this green shirt.
Looks corny but it's part of the show, you know,
try and think about how you want,
'cause how you want police comin' in,
you want 'em comin' in to an active shooter?
Or you want 'em to come in to a shooting that has happened?
- We want past tense and we want them more relaxed.
- That's right.
Did your heart rate go up on that one?
- It's been high all day.
(men laughing)
- If you carry a gun,
you need legal protection.
The United States conceal carry association
can offer that to you, legal protection in case you have
to protect yourself or your family with your gun.
The fact of the matter is,
you can be dealing with civil and criminal charges
and you need someone whose been there before.
We worked out a deal with them,
click the link below to find out more information
and start getting legal protection
for yourself and your family.
(intense music)
(gunshots)
- Hey, you just watched FPD
and we have a bunch of other stuff
that you can find out about all the cool gun stuff
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Or, YouTube if you like snarky comments
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Also GunTalk.com.
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Also, GunTalkTV.com and Gun Talk TV app.
You can watch all of our videos there.
But wait, also, Gun Talk Podcast,
we got one of the best podcasts out there,
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Lots of different stuff.
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