Hi, everyone!
I'm Tanneasha Gordon. I'm your host for today.
I'm a principal at Deloitte responsible for leading our Data Risk Services,
which is inclusive of privacy and data governance
across our entire tech sector.
I'm Ben Galbraith,
I lead Product Management for Chrome's Web Platform team.
I'm Anthony Chavez.
I'm the VP of Product Management here at Google.
I'm working on Android security and privacy.
Take ten. Charlie mark.
Action.
I really want to start with you, Ben.
Can you define for us, what is the Privacy Sandbox?
Sure, we use the term to cover our engagement
with the entire ecosystem
to create a new generation of technologies
that can replace the tracking primitives that are in the web today.
It's inclusive of our efforts
-with the W3C... -Okay.
...direct engagements with developers to get their feedback.
It also refers to the APIs
that we're designing in the open, in open source.
And so we feel that the web needs to evolve.
Over 80% of consumers right now
feel that this trade-off we've had on the web for so long
of free services in exchange for information,
they're concerned with it, they feel the risks of data sharing
are greater than the benefit that they're getting.
The web, sort of, its fabric enables this
through features like third-party cookies
that really enable users to be tracked.
And so that's why we're doing the Privacy Sandbox,
in order to provide alternatives
to the tracking mechanisms that we have today.
So, yeah, that's the Sandbox.
So, Anthony, I heard
that Android will be joining the journey with Chrome.
Yes, that is correct.
So, it is official,
we are bringing the Privacy Sandbox initiative to Android,
so pretty excited about that.
We're going to be developing new privacy-preserving technologies
that support critical use cases for the ecosystem,
while improving user privacy.
So, for example, these technologies will not rely
on tracking identifiers.
And we're going to be building this in close partnership and collaboration
with the entire mobile ecosystem.
And what are the implications?
Does this mean Ad-IDs are going to be deprecated also?
Our goal is to basically remove the need
for solutions that work on Ad-ID.
We know this is going to take multiple years
to design, develop,
work with the ecosystem, to do this.
It's at least two years
before we make any significant changes to how Ad-ID works.
But I want to be clear, our focus for now is on building technologies that work,
that improve user privacy in a fundamental way,
but also support these critical use cases
that we think are so important for the entire ecosystem.
From a Privacy Sandbox perspective,
they've had to push the timeline back.
Why was the timeline pushed?
What can we expect now from this new timeline?
As we've made solid progress,
Chrome and others have surfaced 30 serious API proposals,
more than that, through the standards process.
We've shipped many of those to trials for developers to experiment with.
But as we've gone through this process and collected feedback,
it just became evident that we'd underestimated the scale of this effort.
This is a really complex ecosystem
that's built on the tracking mechanisms of today.
Well, it gives us more opportunity to have deeper engagement
in the discussion process, which we've seen we need
as we listen to all the different viewpoints,
and there are many different viewpoints.
It also gives us more time for deeper regulatory engagement,
which is proving to be both necessary but also beneficial to the program.
And, finally, it gives the industry more time,
both developers and the Ad Tech industry,
to transition to these new API approaches.
And so those were the factors that have led us
to increase the amount of time in the schedule.
Help me understand what were some of the learnings that you had
that evolved FLoC to Topics API?
Yeah, great question.
FLoC, I think, is a good microcosm of what we've been talking about
because we could create these groups of like-minded individuals,
these cohorts based on their browsing activity.
But as we looked at that, we found that
sharing the topics that users are interested in directly,
that that was more intuitive and in some cases more useful.
And we found a way to make that more private than the design of the Cohort API
by being careful about which topics we share with which sites
and managing the general visibility of topics.
A lot of organizations, people, critics online,
are saying that the Privacy Sandbox is just not private enough.
I'm really sympathetic to the perspective that, with the Sandbox,
we should just try to block everything as much as possible
and really try to constrain things and focus on that privacy component.
The ecosystem depends
on personalized experiences and relevant advertising.
So with the Sandbox project, our approach is a little different.
It's to provide an alternative to tracking
that gives the industry something akin to a safe harbor, I sometimes call it,
where, if you follow these practices,
that's okay, you can do these things
and deliver personalized experiences for users.
And if we provide that,
then we think that opens up the opportunity
for us to move against tracking.
That's why we've taken this approach
of providing these privacy-preserving APIs.
And what we're doing in the Sandbox and the initial release is a start,
and we'll continue to iterate and get better and better over time,
but that gives this transition path for the industry.
The goal we have with these privacy-preserving technologies,
they don't rely upon tracking identifiers, right,
they fundamentally limit user tracking
and reduce the amount of information that's shared.
And so we do see this as a true step forward for privacy,
but, at the same time, as Ben touched on,
we think it's critical to actually support businesses,
support app developers, support publishers,
with effective solutions.
So, we think there is a balance,
but I think, and I want to be clear, we believe we're making a big step forward
and actually fundamentally making things more private
on Android and certainly on the web as well too.
So, how do you respond to the claims that,
you know, Google or Chrome is deprecating
third-party cookies to just put itself at an advantage?
Well, first, we're engaging openly with the industry
on the development of the Sandbox through the W3C,
through trials, through 1-on-1 partner engagements,
to ensure that we're creating solutions that work for the industry
and not just for Google.
The other thing I'd point to is the agreement that we entered into
with the UK's Competition and Markets Authority regulator,
where we committed ourselves to an agreement
that we would not self-preference
in everything that we're doing with the development of the Sandbox
and opening up all of our internal processes to review by the CMA
and committing that we would also follow these processes globally.
And so I would say, if you look at the process we're following,
we're trying as hard as we can to have an open process,
it's very collaborative, and we're legally on the hook
to ensure that we follow through and do not self-preference.
In other words, the solutions that we develop will have these characteristics
for the entire world and not just for the UK.
So, Anthony, I want to talk a little bit about the publishers and advertisers.
How will Android be able to assure
that some of the privacy tech coming out of the Sandbox
is going to be secure or effective?
I spent many years of my career at Google working on advertiser solutions.
If I didn't believe or wasn't convinced that we could have effective solutions,
I'd actually be pretty worried.
I think there is a general, sort of, I'd say, recognition in the industry
that, sort of, advances
in privacy technologies or techniques, right,
things like aggregation, anonymization,
you know, on-device learning, approaches like that,
actually open up the possibility
to have solutions that can be very effective
for use cases, advertising, monetization, et cetera,
while also really limiting
how much user data needs to be shared with different parties to achieve that.
And so I think, you know, we're fundamentally,
and deeply optimistic
about the potential for these new privacy techniques
to actually deliver really effective and high-utility solutions
but also improve user privacy at the same time.
Do you have the same level of optimism for small businesses?
Yeah, no, great question.
So, actually, just take Topics maybe as an example.
Like, maybe there's a local pet shop, right,
and it wants to be able to reach maybe new customers
that they haven't... don't have a relationship with
to sell them, whatever, organic pet food,
and the Topics API provides a way to do that
without actually having to track those users
across different sites to learn about their interests.
I think, look, our goal with the Sandbox, both on Android and Chrome,
is to support the entire ecosystem.
And so that means building APIs, building technologies
that work for, like my example, the super small pet store
all the way to large businesses
and large publishers and advertisers.
So, absolutely, our goal is to be able to support small businesses
as well as large businesses with our efforts.
What would you both say in terms of, again,
publishers and advertisers to prepare?
You know, privacy is just a fundamental core thing
we have to get right as an industry.
That said, I think there are different, almost called, best practices
or things that publishers and advertisers can do.
So, maybe I think one area
is really for businesses to continue to strengthen
their first-party relationships with their consumers.
I think another area,
you know, automation, machine learning,
that can basically take information from first-party relationships
and be able to sort of extend it through modeling, through optimization,
those would probably be the two top areas of mine
that I would maybe encourage advertisers and publishers
to consider.
For the most part,
maybe in many or even most cases,
publishers, advertisers will actually not need to directly adopt
the new privacy-preserving technologies.
You know, instead, hopefully they can work with their existing partner
to adopt solutions that now build on these new technologies
in Chrome and in Android.
To advertisers, to publishers,
I think it's great to stay abreast of what's happening with Privacy Sandbox.
We have the privacysandbox.com site
where folks can go and always learn more.
But I'd also say, like,
I think engaging with their Ad Tech partners
on their plans and their roadmap is also a probably a good idea as well.
So, just to wrap up, I think what I'm hearing is,
if I'm an advertiser or a publisher,
lean on my Ad Tech providers, see what they have planned.
Yes.
-Get a first-party data strategy. -Yes.
And start to build up my analytics or machine learning modeling
and technology strategy as well.
Yeah, I think that's exactly right.
You've hit on all the key things I would recommend, super clearly.
Got it. So, I noticed that you all are super optimistic
about the Privacy Sandbox.
And I want to know personally, from both of you,
what excites you the most
about the new future of online privacy, digital advertising?
The challenge ahead is big. We should be very clear.
This is a big transition... effort that we're undertaking,
You know I worked in ads for many years.
And I would say one of the things that I really enjoyed about that,
really loved, actually,
is the opportunity to sort of apply technology
to being able to help connect businesses and consumers
in ways that are actually useful for both parties,
in ways that are meaningful and respectful.
And I think with the Privacy Sandbox initiatives,
both on Chrome and Android,
we have an opportunity to support those connections
but in a fundamentally more private way.
From my perspective,
you want to work in your career on something that really matters.
And when you look at the scale and scope of this problem,
of the fact that all of this technology that we've built
really is dependent on pervasive user tracking,
and you realize how complex it is to move that to a different state,
this is a huge effort, the biggest and most complex of its kind I've ever seen.
Right.
The ability to shift that into something that provides privacy by default,
as we've been talking about in these new techniques,
I'm excited about the journey.
I know you work a lot with clients and partners and customers in this space.
So, I would love to get your perspective
on what excites you of what you're hearing.
This entire overhaul of the digital advertisement ecosystem, to me,
is super exciting because I think it's also a forcing function,
not just for us as a society to, you know, up our game
and innovate on how to protect user privacy,
but it's also a forcing function for brands to now think about,
how do I move from a transactional relationship with my customers
to more of a relational relationship?
Moving, you know, data in-house
or just, you know, establishing a first-party data strategy
that allows you to build trusted engagement,
that allows you to really know who your customers are
versus just relying on third-party cookies for customer acquisition,
and just not having that direct a consumer relationship.
So, I see it as a good thing, especially in my field,
because now these companies are taking ownership
and figuring out how do I step up my data hygiene?
How do I know my customer better?
How do I put the right controls in place,
the right consent and preference management solutions?
How do I make sure my third-party, you know,
how data goes comes into my org and leaves my org?
Do we have the right contractual mechanisms in place,
the right partnerships?
But I think we're coming up on time
and we're going to have to close out, but thank you so much.
Thank you both. Awesome.
With that, we're coming to an end.
Thank you for tuning in.