- My name is Alex Berman
and you're watching "Selling Breakdowns."
Joe Rogan is a stand-up comic, an MC,
and the host of the staggeringly successful podcast,
"The Joe Rogan Experience".
- But how many years ago was it that you guys came on last?
- [Man] Three years. - [Lady] 2013.
- So, that was when we were getting probably like
four million downloads a month?
- [Man] Probably triple that now, I'd say.
- At least.
- [Man] From what it was three years ago.
- At least triple.
- [Alex] Today we're going to delve into his
interview style and how his singular way
of posing a question has catapulted "The Joe Rogan
Experience" into the history books as one of the most
successful and profitable podcasts of all time.
One of the keys to Rogan's popularity is
that he allows himself to be interviewed at the same time
he's conditioning his guests.
- When I was interviewing that dude, like, I'll
start welling up right now.
When I was interviewing him after that fight I was like,
"That guy just emptied out, I mean emptied out
his whole soul."
I mean, he took a fucking beating.
- [Alex] In reality, Rogan's a conversationalist
rather than a typical interviewer.
- I don't interview anybody.
I'm not interviewing you, am I?
- Nope.
- I'm not an interviewer. I suck at that.
I kind of interviewed Ron Miscavige yesterday.
I talk to people and I record it, that's it.
- [Alex] Maybe it's his years of training
in the subtleties of martial arts or maybe he just
has a gift for it.
Either way, he's skilled at breaking down the defenses
of his subject in a nearly undetectable way.
It's easy to be taken in by Rogan's self-declared
ignorance, but again, in reality you're dealing
with a dedicated host that knows how to elicit a reaction.
Today we're going to break down a few of the longstanding
interview tactics that Rogan's managed to weave
into his most successful interviews.
Columbia School of Journalism has laid out the following.
See if you can pick out the way that Rogan
is able to slide these fundamental principles
into his conversations.
- I would love to play you the
"Dinosaurs Are Not Real" video.
- [Alex] He's talking to Trevor Valle, paleontologist and
assistant lab supervisor for the La Brea Tar Pits.
Valle is incredibly passionate about his work
and actually gained some notoriety in a Twitter war
with pop star, Keisha, when she supposedly
dirtied an exhibit he painstakingly restored.
As you'll see, Rogan does his research
and he's a master at finding people's hot buttons.
- Don't bring your flattered bullshit into my profession.
Now I'm pissed.
(laughing)
- Keep going.
- [Valle] Yeah, keep us rolling.
- [Alex] While Rogan's known in some circles
as a conspiracy theorist himself, he takes a lot
of pleasure in debunking counter culture science
and he's brilliant at finding guests that will
relate well to his audience.
- [Narrator] By teams of evolutionists, archeologists,
purposely out looking to find such fossils.
- [Valle] I'm glad I brought a lot of beer.
- [Narrator] And that it's even more dubious that
such fossils have supposedly existed for millions of years.
- [Alex] As you become familiar with Rogan's style
you'll begin to realize that he rarely asks
a direct question.
He doesn't have to.
He's done his research and knows a few carefully placed
words will easily direct most of his guests.
- Alex Jones and Eddie Bravo together on Episode 911.
- [Alex] His subject, Alex Jones,
is a known conspiracy theorist.
Rogan's effort to give Jones Episode 911 is a nod
to one of Jones's most popular theories regarding
the World Trade Center bombings on September 11th.
You'll notice Jones' immediate sense of reciprocity.
He's flattered and eager to please.
- Let me just say I'm very envious because I'm
in my studio under bright lights
and I've talked about going back to when I was just
on radio, that darkness where you can really think.
This is a wonderful studio.
- [Alex] We should mention here that this interview
gets a little inflammatory.
Jones is beyond controversial and this episode ended up
with four and a half million views in its first
few weeks on YouTube.
Rogan even got a little backlash for it.
- Why does he legitimize quacks like Alex Jones?
- [Rogan] I absolutely don't.
- He creates a false equivalence problem.
- Oh, no, no, no, no, no, that's not fair.
- Why does he interview so many bad faith actors
like Alex Jones?
- [Alex] This is a brief clip of the conversation
as Jones starts to devolve.
- You want me to tell you?
- [Eddie] Oh shit. We shouldn't have let him smoke weed!
- There's a huge war going on.
It's beautiful!
We are kicking their ass on every front.
- And yet nobody's investigating?
What's going on here?
- This is what Hitler freaked out about and picked up.
- What does that mean?
- Stop Trump!
He's the devil! Stop him!
Anything we've got, stop him!
- What? You're just making things up!
- Do I have to wear these headphones?
- [Rogan] No. - [Eddie] No.
- [Alex] Rogan later made this comment.
- Alex Jones has been my friend for 20 years.
He's fucking crazy.
- [Alex] Rogan also added,
- He doesn't give a fuck. - [Man] Really?
- [Man] About his custody battle?
They asked him a question about his kid
he couldn't remember.
He goes, "Ah, I'm sorry.
I had a large bowl of chili for lunch today.
I can't remember."
(laughing)
He's fucking crazy.
- [Alex] Here, Rogan's discussing champion UFC fighter
John Jones' decision to flee the scene of an accident
during his difficult battle with substance abuse.
- But give me the thought, like, probably the most
I was disappointed in you, and I love you as a person.
I think you're a great guy.
- I love you, too, Joe. Thanks.
- I really do.
I've always had a good time hanging out with you,
but I was very disappointed with you with
that car accident thing.
- [John] Yeah.
When you ran away from that car accident, that, to me,
was like, "God damn, John's in a bad place."
- Yeah, I was in at bad place. It was..."
- [Alex] Rogan never asked a question.
His simple statement starts Jones on a deep
and personal explanation about the accident.
- And I think I just took everything that I had
for granted because everything for the majority
of my career has gone my way.
- [Alex] Was Rogan always this skilled
at quickly pulling out information?
Alternative historian, Graham Hancock,
is a favorite guest of Rogan's and during
this early interview Rogan quickly endears himself.
- Graham Hancock is probably the one guy who's influenced
my view of history more than anybody ever
and it's from this book, "Fingerprints of the Gods."
- [Alex] While product promotions are a part
of most interviews, Rogan is known for going further.
Here, he transitions Hancock into a comfortable place
by mentioning something obscure about his guests'
area of expertise.
- Of humanity and one of my favorite terms that you use
is that we're a species with hypnosis, or excuse me,
with amnesia.
- [Graham] With amnesia, yeah.
- Yeah, and please tell me, how did all this
get a cracking?
How did this get started for you?
- [Alex] Hancock perks up with this quote
and it transitions him into a personal take
on his journey into alternative history.
- [Graham] It's when all through my childhood
I always felt I was on the edge of things,
not in the middle of things.
Other people were in the middle, I was on the edge.
I just always felt that way.
- [Alex] This conversation's a great place to introduce
another of Rogan's successful practices.
It's something that's often highlighted
in journalism courses and it can prove to be invaluable.
That is, bring a buddy.
- [Graham] Is using the vine as an access point
into humanity.
And, oh, I just lost my thread.
How did I get to that?
- We were talking about the - Well, no, that idea comes
from the Amazon which is being...
- [Graham] Yeah, yes, exactly, exactly.
At the very time when our
- [Alex] Any interviewer or interviewee will struggle
with staying on point during a conversation
and having a cohort that understands where and when
you can use support is a huge asset.
Rogan also plays the gentle mediator during
parts of his interviews.
- Your instincts obviously were to produce this book
and to talk about it very openly and honestly,
and to do interviews like this and, you know,
have discussions like this where you talk about it.
And you know this right now is going
to reach half a million people.
They're going to consider what you're saying
and they're going to look into it,
and they're going to go, "Whoa, do you really
think that there's some fucking vine that you can take
from the jungle that allows you to communicate
with the spirit world?"
- [Alex] He knows that Hancock has a tendency
to romanticize his findings, but he also feels
the need to express the sense of responsibility
that all three men feel on the subject.
With the slightest nudging he's able to get
what he needs from the author.
- [Graham] I, personally, do not believe that
psychedelics are appropriate for recreational activity.
I think if somebody chooses to do that,
that's their body, that's their choice,
but I don't think it's the right thing to do.
We need to treat these amazing substances with respect.
- You're so in your element when you're around cars
and when you do that show.
It's so different, you know, and I said this,
with all due respect,
you were a great host of The Tonight Show.
- [Jay] No, I know what you mean.
- You're a great comic.
- [Alex] Again, Rogan's done enough research on Leno
to know what lights him up in a conversation.
He also creates enough rapport to drive out some
of Leno's more candid stories.
- You know, talking to, like, dopey celebrities
- [Rogan] Yeah.
- I mean, there are some really interesting ones,
but then there's like - Like me, right?
- Yeah, yeah, but then there are like just really,
like reality stars.
- [Rogan] Yeah.
- [Alex] Rogan's mention of the contrast of Leno's
passion for his work verses his previous frustration
spills out into another deep story.
- I remember one time we had this ice skater on.
Oh, she's famous, she was in the Olympics.
And then like 10 years later she was in Playboy magazine.
She hadn't done anything for 10 years
then she's in Playboy.
So, we get a call from Playboy,
"Would you put so-and-so in?"
Okay, yeah, she was America's Sweetheart,
now she's naked.
Okay, that could be an interesting second guest.
Okay, fine.
- [Alex] You'll notice that Leno has lowered his voice,
almost as though he's forgotten he's streaming live
to millions of viewers.
- So, she comes in and her manager takes her,
"Mr. Leno, can I speak to you?
We are not mentioning the Playboy article."
I go, "Really?"
Why don't you take your client and go home, okay?
I can get a comic here in four minutes.
This is why your client is here.
You called us because you're naked in Playboy.
- [Alex] Another example of Rogan's ability to elicit
a candid response happens throughout his interview
with actress Leah Remini.
Remini, a former Scientologist, is clearly a guest
that has experienced past criticism
and Rogan makes an early effort to reassure her
that she's not being judged.
- We're live.
Going to change subjects, - [Leah] Okay.
- Leah Remini.
We're going to abandon all that crazy talk
we were just talking about.
- [Leah] I thought it was a good talk.
- It was. - [Leah] Yeah.
- It was definitely a good talk.
- [Alex] The interview starts with the tail end
of a conversation that the two have
as Rogan eases Remini into an uncomfortable subject.
A short time later he sensed her hesitation
and offered further reassurance.
- [Rogan] Pretty fucking normal, you know?
- [Leah] For a Scientol...right.
- Well, I met John Travolta once too, and I said
the same thing, like, he's pretty normal.
- [Leah] Nice guy.
- Kelly Preston, she's pretty normal.
- [Leah] Yeah.
- She's normal. - [Leah] Yes.
- [Alex] This opens the door for her to delve quickly
into the intimate areas of her life that have been
a source of shame for her.
- Like, I would never tell when I was in,
a non-Scientologist, my real problems.
It would be kind of bad for the Church.
- [Alex] As Rogan begins to sense her discomfort,
he offers a defense that's resonated with her in the past.
- Christianity.
And that word is the correct word
- If you want to just look at it
- [Leah] Sure.
- In terms of the actual
literal definition of it.
- [Leah] Yeah.
- But it's automatically got this negative connotation.
- [Leah] Yes.
- You say the word "cult" and people think you're
brainwashed, you're lost, but
- [Leah] Right.
- [Alex] This isn't a disingenuous comment, either.
Rogan's long been an open critic of religion in general
and it's clear that he wants to express
that he doesn't hold one belief above another.
- There's a natural inclination that people have
to be tribal.
There's a natural inclination people have to be on a team
- [Leah] Yes.
- And we like it when we're all together.
- [Leah] Yes.
- [Alex] You'll rarely hear Joe Rogan boast unnecessarily
about his own successes and you may find, like we did
during the making of this video,
that he tends to offer a sincere and consistent philosophy
when it comes to human interaction.
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