- Imagine you're a lawyer.
It's a good, stable, well-paid job.
But you're not really passionate about it.
What you are passionate about
is Pokémon cards.
- Oh my god!
(energetic music)
We did it!
We did it, baby!
- But how in the world
could you ever make Pokémon cards your full-time job?
Creators, I'm Matt Koval, and a while back on Twitter,
I asked you who I should interview here
on the Creator Insider Channel.
The creator and channel
that got the most votes was Lee, from Leonhart.
- Light Sunflora, Swinub,
and the rare-
It's a Shining Charizard!
We have done it!
We hit- Oh! (dramatic music)
Oh my god!
(excited yelling) (techno music)
- Now by the numbers at the time of this recording,
Leonhart has made 1,840 videos since 2014.
He has 1,370,000 subscribers.
Looks to me like he gets around 160,000 views per video
and he uploads four times a week.
In my conversation with Lee, I'm gonna ask him
how to take the scary leap
from part-time creating to full-time creating
with your channel.
How to change up the type of videos you make?
Who should be your first hire
if you want to expand your operation and more?
So, grab yourself a tasty beverage
and let's hear the story of Leonhart.
Lee, the leap from part-time creator
to full-time can be a scary one.
I assume you ran your channel for a while
before you quit your job as a lawyer.
How did that transition happen?
- So it was a long time coming actually,
where I was analyzing the risk
and "Is this a good idea?"
Which analyzing means running it by my wife and my family.
And essentially, I started my channel on November of 2014
and basically was building it up the entire time
while I was an attorney.
And September of, I think it was 2017,
is when I made that big leap of quitting my full-time job
and doing YouTube full-time, content creation full-time.
- What was the exact moment you realized
you could go full-time?
Was it obvious to you?
Was it a certain amount of views or revenue?
Was it a no-brainer or was it kind of a scary leap?
- It was definitely more of a safe risk,
I would think, at that point,
because I was waiting to where,
most importantly, revenue was either saved up
or at least was projected to, you know,
keep on making a comfortable amount
where I could, you know,
be supported by revenue on YouTube.
And so, I had waited, I think it was like at least a year
of, you know, making a certain amount before I was like,
"Okay, this is how it's projected, gonna be based
off of my analytics that I've been doing
and my calculations."
And from then on, that's when I kinda
made that more calculated, safer risk.
It was a risk, but it was a more safer risk of going from,
you know, full-time doing content creation.
- I guess it's less scary that way.
So, you were making gaming videos and vlogs
and kind of, from what I could tell,
a variety of stuff,
and then you realized there might be an opportunity
to really lean into Pokémon.
We get asked a lot how to pivot your content.
So what's your advice there?
- So as far as switching my gears
from doing retro, nostalgic
Top 10 Lists for video games and such,
basically started with finding
my old Pokémon card collection.
I did a video on that.
I found it one: I was very passionate about that
and that came off in the type of videos that I was doing.
And the audience, the viewers, on YouTube
really enjoyed the passion that was coming through,
but they also enjoyed the content as well.
So, from that older card collection,
I dabbed into newer Pokémon cards as well.
And from then on,
found that it was actually easier to grow
and I enjoyed it more, as well,
when doing Pokémon card videos
to where naturally,
and it wasn't just an overnight type of thing,
I gradually got my audience accustomed
to more Pokémon videos
than those type of retro, nostalgic video game videos
slash Let's Plays that I was doing
when I first started my channel.
And I think that sort of gradual introduction to those types
of videos was ultimately why
I've been successful in transitioning my channel
into an old type of Pokémon niche channel.
- I wanted to ask you about your current format.
Opening cards in your home in one location is a dream.
I mean, it strikes me as very sustainable
and, full disclosure, I don't know much about Pokémon cards,
but my assumption is
they keep generating new cards.
So is there a never-ending flow of content for you?
- So why I enjoy my type of content that I do do,
is it's not just the newer cards.
There are tons of the older sets that now,
Pokémon being 25 years old,
Pokémon's been producing sets, several sets,
every single year for the past 25 years.
So, I've done vintage and older type of set
Pokémon card openings.
And then of course, as you mentioned,
Pokémon is still, to this day,
producing multiple sets every single year
and they're not stopping anytime soon.
There's a reason why Pokémon is the highest
grossing media franchise in the entire world.
They are still producing the card game
and it's still quality as ever
and more people than ever
are getting into the Pokémon card game.
So, even if Pokémon did decide to stop like, tomorrow,
not producing any more cards, you know,
there would be another, like 10 to 20 year leeway
of still content that I can still produce, you know,
from all of the older sets that have come out.
- So, let's talk money a little bit.
Obviously you don't need to get into specifics,
but can you tell us about your mix of revenue,
ads, brand deals, whatever else,
if you do any merch, and any advice around sustaining
your channel, or anyone's channel,
from a revenue standpoint?
- Yeah, so, I would say the ad revenue from YouTube
is definitely one of the biggest things for myself,
but that being said,
you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket,
another cliché saying.
That's where you have the different type
of brand deals that you can do,
and I've done several brand deals before.
I'm pretty picky myself,
just because I like to actually be like,
using or for the type of product
that I would do a brand deal for
and know that my audience, who's extremely loyal,
introduce them to it
and that they would use it as well.
And so, having brand deals, extremely important.
As I'm wearing right now, I do have my own merch right here
with the Leonhart logo on it.
And so I do have that as well, too.
And then of course, there's several other things
that YouTube offers as well,
like members and other types of ways
that you can, you know,
interact with super chat and everything
that you can do with your community, too.
So all of that combined
is just the ultimate recipe for, just, success.
And that's how I've been able to sustain it
for, I think, it's been almost seven years now.
- Related to revenue, let's talk about being a lone,
individual creator versus making videos with a team.
I mean, we talked about you in your,
I assume you're in your home, you know,
you're very self-contained, self-sustainable.
Do you operate with any sort of team now?
- It's kinda the thing.
I am a one-man team, other than, finally,
the past six months I got an editor
and that was more so on myself for trust issues
of issues of passing my baby, which is my videos,
my content creation, to somebody else
to, you know, wonder if they can produce the work.
'Cause I was editing all my videos
and I still make all my titles, thumbnails,
produce my videos, ideas,
you know, I handle all my marketing, brand deals, merch,
everything is just myself.
But it was finally taking that leap,
that trust in putting my videos
and editing them into somebody else.
And so thankfully, I now have an editor.
But other than that, it is just myself
and as you mentioned, I just have my lone studio here
and I'm able to do everything I can from my studio.
Which makes it very convenient, easy,
and probably ultimately how I'm able
to have done this for so long,
is that kinda convenience that I've kinda made.
- Do you feel like the editor is the first logical hire
that a creator should bring on?
And what's your advice on finding them
and like, sort of training them?
- It's funny that you mentioned that,
because I absolutely agree that the editor
is usually the first step
because Mr. Beast, or Jimmy, had the exact type of thing
where he was a little worried
of getting an editor for himself, you know,
trust issues just like myself.
And then he finally got that editor
and then it's been like, now has a full-on work horse team
and everything now.
It's kinda like the initial flood gates open
when you do get that first thing
and usually, I've noticed, not just for myself,
that it is getting an editor.
And so, finding an editor is very crucial.
You know, for myself,
I literally just made a video asking,
you know, "Can you edit?"
And I had a bunch of people contacting me,
lots of amazing, talented people out there,
but you gotta find the person that just kinda is, you know,
knows your personality,
somebody that knows your content,
and has been watching you for a while.
Like, I really can't stress that enough,
because there's plenty
of amazingly talented people out there,
but it's those people that just got that connection
in with you that had been watching your content.
And this person that I did hire
had been watching my content
and basically, you know, we had a trial period.
Wasn't amazing, wasn't perfect.
But eventually, it gets to it where, you know,
you're just synced up.
- It takes time, right?
I actually led a video production team here at YouTube
and I was the same way as a creator.
Perfectionist, "No, I can't bring on an editor!
No way, they don't get it."
But, it just takes a little time
and I always encourage creators to take that leap,
because there's so many talented people out there.
You're not the only talented person out there,
and they can learn your style.
- Exactly.
That's exactly what it was.
You know, I try to be a perfectionist.
Has its advantages, disadvantages.
But once you make that leap,
I can't stress enough how
for time management purposes,
and just improving your own content, you'll be surprised.
You think you know it all and you have it all
and you're, you know, worried about giving it,
passing it on to somebody else.
But, you know, it's a little learning curve,
but then you just see the results keep on compounding
into a good way.
- Let's talk about analytics specifically.
Analytics are amazing.
Some people stress themselves out by looking at them.
What's your thought on analytics?
How often do you use them?
What do you focus on?
- Analytics wise, I am always taking advantage
of what YouTube has to offer.
Especially with all the changes in a positive way
of knowing audience retention fallout,
like when they fall off,
when they stay on for a while, consistency.
And so, myself in particular,
whenever I post a new video,
whether it may be a little too obsessive,
I'm like 15 minutes in,
I'm looking at how a video does compare
to the previous one and the other ones.
30 minutes in, I'm looking at how well it does.
Likes, views, you know, as much as I can get from analytics.
I'm looking in different increments
for basically every single video
and try to improve every single time from those analytics.
And then of course, when you get more click through rate,
when you find that out in the next several hours
after a video post,
an audience average view duration,
I'm looking at that as well
once those analytics are available to me,
as soon as they are.
- Is it a positive experience to look at that?
'Cause a lot of creators, including myself,
would kind of freak out if the numbers
are dipping in a particular video.
- I will say that it is kind of discouraging
when you see a video to get like 10 out of 10
on the ranking when it first comes out.
But I will also stress like,
and what I try to tell myself,
is be patient.
Just because a video may perform a certain way
at the beginning on this certain day, time, and topic,
doesn't mean that it won't perform or, you know,
increase in performance later on.
And so, I will say, yes,
it does get a little anxious and nerve wracking
when I see a video underperforming.
But at the same time,
I really do try to distance myself from, you know,
being like, "This is the end all
if a video is not doing well," you know, type of thing.
But it goes likewise, if a video is still doing well,
I try to understand, "What can I improve on this video
and why is this video doing well
compared to other ones?"
- You got the whole creator-insider audience,
lots of creators, lots of small creators,
medium-size, even large creators.
If you had one piece of advice
to give them about their own growth
or their own wellbeing, what would it be?
- It would be to just be excited about what you do
and that will come off to whoever's watching your video,
and to be very, very patient.
I know that was maybe two things,
but please just, you know, hang in there.
Be confident in what you do in your abilities.
Just start recording.
It doesn't have to be perfect at the beginning,
but you can always improve and you will improve.
And the audience and community will,
you know, will see that.
And just, you know Rome wasn't built in a day.
My channel wasn't built in a day.
It did take several years, but other people's channels,
it took much faster.
So that's what's so exciting about it
and whatever niche that you do get into,
be passionate about it,
be excited about it,
and I promise you results will come.
- That's awesome.
Your story is so inspiring.
Thanks so much for being with us, Lee.
- Absolutely, it's been an absolute pleasure.
Thank you so much.
(cards shuffling)
(techno music)