from the night the US voted in its
reality TV president there were those
who thought this moment inevitable while
few could predict Nancy Pelosi would use
quite so many pens to sign the articles
of impeachment the custom to dole them
out as mementos some of Donald Trump's
detractors suspected it would just be a
matter of time many supporters too
wondered if this moment would come when
those articles would be carried by hand
in a choreographed procession to the
Senate although they predicted it would
happen because their man would be
unfairly targeted the victim of a witch
hunt but this season of the Trump
reality saga had a big last-minute twist
that we were there for the President of
the United States you were there to
speak on president Trump's behalf
correct exactly those exact words
impeachment trial in US history a
bombshell interview this man Lev panis
turned to primetime to blow up the
president's defense what do you think is
the main inaccuracy or the main lie
that's being told that you feel like you
can correct that the president didn't
know what was going on
president Trump know exactly what was
going on he was aware of all my
movements he I wouldn't do anything
without their consent the Rudy Giuliani
or the president left bonus is under
indictment for campaign finance
violations which is why the White House
says he's not credible
but he was the man hired by the
president's personal lawyer Rudy
Giuliani he says to help persuade
Ukraine's president zalenski to dig up
dirt on Trump's political rival Joe
Biden but Trump has insisted his actions
were only ever about one thing I'm only
interested in corruption everything to
me is about corruption we're
investigating corruption are you saying
the president was aware that you and mr.
Giuliani were working on this effort in
Ukraine to basically try to hurt Joe
Biden's political career he was about
that yeah it was absorbed by Joe Biden
Bayden and it was never about corruption
the man sitting next to mr. Parnas
during his interview with MSNBC is his
lawyer who released this video on
Twitter a few days ago in October though
President Trump denied knowing either
panas or his associate igor freeman now
it's possible I have a picture with him
because I have a picture with everybody
I don't know them I don't know about
them I don't know what they do he lied I
mean we're not friends I mean when you
say friends I mean I'm didn't watch
football games together with in heat hot
folks but he knew exactly who we were he
knew exactly who I was especially
because I interacted with them at a lot
of events there's no doubt the paleness
revelations will raise the stakes so
incredibly there were Republican
senators this morning who said they
hadn't even heard them Can I grab one
very quickly just what do you make of
the revelations this morning from lead
partners what do you make of these
revelations from Lev panis this morning
how damaging are they to the president
well I haven't I haven't seen all the
materials that have been turned over he
says the president knew exactly what was
going on right I haven't seen all the
materials that have been turned over and
I haven't really seen the interview
the Democrats say the palace allegations
need to be considered
we're obviously seeing more from mr.
Parnas and others that I think have to
be made part of the record how we do
that remains to be seen I'm the Dean of
the Senate and I've never seen any
president Republican or Democrat ever
even contemplate doing something like
this the managers on the part of the
House of Representatives are present and
ready to present the articles of
impeachment in the past few hours the
articles were formally read in the
Senate article 1 abuse of power article
2 obstruction of Congress next senators
on both sides must take an oath of
impartiality
but ponder on this the Senate's top
Republican has already said on national
TV he is not impartial and he'll take
his cues during the trial from the White
House a couple of important development
to mention here the federal watchdog the
Government Accountability Office has
said today that the White House Urgo
president Trump violated federal law
when it withheld that military aid that
400 million dollars worth to Ukraine
because the aid was agreed and signed
off by Congress it said the president
therefore had no right to appropriate
those funds for what they called policy
reasons the money was of course later
released to Ukraine but only after the
scandal broke the Democrats today
immediately seizing on that news as
evidence that the White House and
President Trump broke the law the White
House though still continuing to insist
that holding those funds were both
appropriate it said and necessary either
way it's certainly not good news on the
day that the president's trial kicks off
formally in the Senate I think you can
see some pictures here of Senators
waiting for the swearing-in ceremony to
begin they will of course act as jurors
during that trial more bad news today
obviously you saw there in my piece
those ugly revelations from Liv
now Republicans have said that those
allegations need to be validated but
certainly there's no doubt that they
will put pressure on the Republicans to
include witnesses during the trial
something that the Republicans have so
far strongly resisted and if they do
include witnesses and if there are new
fresh damning allegations that fresh
evidence comes out then that could up
the stakes quite considerably for
president Trump Siobhan Kennedy on
Capitol Hill well earlier I spoke to
David Frum former speechwriter for
President George W Bush and author of
transpo cracy the corruption of the
American Republic I began by asking him
about the significance of length
Parnassus comments the the impact of the
PAR ness testimony is to deliver a body
blow warning to Republicans in the
Senate that there is a lot of
information out there about what
President Trump did to try to defame his
political opponent by blackmailing the
government of Ukraine that the Trump
administration has been engaged in an
attempt to cover up by refusing to
provide evidence by refusing to allow
people to testify but is a huge pile of
dirt it's not that big a carpet and
every once in a while you get these
gusts that show how much dirt is under
the carpet pronounced reminded us all of
that how reliable is an ass not very
that's one of the things that happens in
these trumping queries you know
the Trump people will say you know he's
he's a liar he's a hoodlum and all of
that is true because after all he is an
associate of Donald Trump's that the
Trump defense so often says how can you
believe this witness how can you believe
Donald Trump's long-term personal lawyer
how long King how can you believe as
these Associates of his after all they
worked for Donald Trump they must be
criminals and Liars the problem is there
aren't very many honest people who work
for Donald Trump so the evidence you're
going to get from his associates comes
from people with with these impairments
but remember everything that Parnassus
is saying so far has been backed up by
contemporaneous textual evidence you
mean there are real texts which can't
really be challenged one of the claims
that Donald Trump makes for example is
that perhaps Rudy Giuliani the former
mayor of New York Donald Trump's
personal lawyer was off on some frolic
and diversion of his own
while Parnassus provided us with a
letter from Rudy Guiliani to the
president of Ukraine in which routinely
Anna says I'm acting for president Trump
I'm acting in his personal capacity this
is not a favor on behalf of the United
States and I understand that you will
find my request may be unusual so the
elements of the unusualness of the
demand are all there we've made the
assumption that the impeachment which
has come through from the Congress he's
politically motivated and can be escaped
by the fact that there is a majority for
the Republicans in the Senate but is
this so easily escaped look I don't
think there's to this day any real doubt
that the Republicans in the Senate will
vote to acquit the president after all
it takes a two-thirds majority to
convict to impeach and remove a
president and that's probably not
available but what happens with each
passing day is the political price to
those Republicans Rises what happens to
them if they vote not just to quit but
to cover up to have a fake trial not
hear evidence what happens to them that
is a calculation they all have to make
so the political damage to them in terms
of honesty is worse than any question of
the loyalty that's implied by by voting
in the Senate against the impeachment
Donald Trump is probably going to lose
the 2020 election he has been
consistently the most unpopular first
term president in the history of polling
and as people in Britain know when a
candidate is unpopular they tend to lose
so the the question however has been we
all most people assume Donald Trump may
lose in 2020 but the Republican hold on
the Senate is solid but if the
impeachment begins to show up lots and
lots of dirt if the Republicans look
like they are complicit with Donald
Trump in concealing if they refuse to
give a fair hearing to what is obviously
important evidence the question then
becomes is Republican control the Senate
in 2020 at risk as well but it's
fascinating that you say that mr.
Trump's going to lose because I mean the
Democrats are really not even easily
finding somebody to challenge him and at
the same time there is this incredibly
populous sort of I mean it is popularity
that that is that is keeping him so
happily in the White House
I didn't say he will lose I said he
probably will lose um
Donald Trump has is the only president
the only first term president in this
reporting never wants to have achieved
50% approval in any credible pool he
usually is in the in the middle 40s he's
got a lot of wind in his face
and there's a lot of effort to deny that
because a lot of Donald Trump's secret
of his career to date has been telling
people that he's succeeding even when
he's failing David Frum thank you very
much indeed for talking to us thank you
very much and right now you can see
senators coming in one by one to sign in
effectively as members of the jury