- [Jen Wilkin] So, Jen and Jackie, you guys are
both heavily involved in ministry, you're doing lots
of things, travelling a lot.
A lot of opportunities coming your way.
A big question, I know that we're always having to deal
with is how to do you know what to say yes to?
Just everything sounds like a great idea, usually,
so I'd just be curious to hear.
Do you have a process, you know, does someone help you?
- [Jackie Hill-Perry] I know for me, I think saying...knowing how
or when to say no is really, I don't know, wisdom,
innocence, and having my priorities in check.
So, for me, it's like, "Okay, I have all of these speaking
requests to talk about the Gospel, but that's a good thing.
But is it the best thing for me to be gone from my home and my
community all the time?" No.
And so I think, just considering what that yes would do,
and what the no would do.
What is the most profitable thing for my soul,
for my family, for my local community has been one way
in which I flesh out those types of things.
- [Jen Pollock Michel] I often, or always, I should say,
talk to my husband, you know.
I mean, I think he's a much better gauge of my capacity
than I am. I tend to be really overly optimistic like,
"You're going to be fine. It's going to be great."
And he's like, "No. I actually see you when you come home."
And when you're over, you know, overstretched and so I talk
to him, you know, I do talk to people on staff at my church,
I talk to my pastor.
Like I feel like I have a community around me that can
kind of help to remind me, you know, "You've said these
things are important to you.
You said that you really want to invest in your
local neighborhood, and you want to be here on Sundays.
So how does that fit in with that?"
And just people ask really good questions
which I think is helpful.
- [Jackie Hill-Perry] Yeah, that's true.
- [Jen Wilkin] I think I've had to learn too, like the people
who are making the requests are genuine and they do have
a great offer, something that would be great to be
involved in, but they can't weigh the cost.
It's my job to weigh the costs.
And that was hard, I used to feel self-conscious about saying
things like, "I have to be home Saturday afternoon or evening"
because it felt like a princess or something, instead, you know,
"What can I do to minister to your people?"
But really the cumulative effect of not being in my own church
on Sunday morning is just a price tag that's too high
to pay personally.
And yeah, I think asking other people has been
a big help to me.
My husband's really good at straightening me out on things,
and I think I would imagine you guys have gone through this too.
I do have to check my motives a lot and just be like,
"Why am I so drawn to this?
Why do I feel such a compulsion to say yes?
Do I really think I'm that critical to this conversation?"
- [Jen Pollock Michel] It's so helpful to remember,
like I love the that parable that Jesus talks about like
that the Kingdom is like a seed that gets sown and somebody goes
to sleep and at night, like the field has blossomed,
and it's grown and I think like, "That's how the Kingdom's
getting done." A lot of it is just...
We go sleep at night and God's doing his work.
God's Kingdom isn't fully on my shoulders. Just because I say no
to this or that, doesn't mean that...
And [inaudible] has often said like,
"When you say no, other people step up.
That's an invitation to them, and that's a really good thing."
- [Jackie Hill-Perry] I think a lot of it, I feel like Paul
a lot in the New Testament, talks about discerning the word
of God and how that's related to knowledge of God and so I think
that's a factor too is godliness kind of helps me
see stuff rightly where I am able to discern it
if it's a good thing or not.
And I think the more I distance myself from the truth of who
God is, the more blurry things get.
- [Jen Pollock Michel] And you have to have...
I feel like the only way I can give myself away in ministry
is to also continue to receive from the Lord and maintain
spiritual disciplines and practices.
And that takes intentionality.
If you're constantly gone, or if you're constantly
over-capacity in terms of the workload that you have,
you don't have the time to just really continue to encounter
Jesus because that is, I think, what we give away
is our life with Jesus...
That's what we give away to other people and we have
to maintain that.
- [Jen Wilkin] I think I can feel too like, "Oh, they won't
understand if I need to say no."
But then I think if I were on the other side of this,
and in fact, I have been on the other side of this.
I've been the person who's asking someone for help
on something ministry-related.
And I want their honesty,
I want to know where their boundaries are.
I'm not expecting that they'll give me beyond what's reasonable
or healthy for them.
So, sometimes coaching myself on that has helped.
And I always have to remind myself, you know, God cares more
about His church than you do.
And so don't feel like it's just all resting on you for whatever
you perceive the mission to be to move forward.
Similar to what you were saying earlier.
- [Jen Pollock Michel] God loves a cheerful giver too, right?
There's no benefit to anyone to saying...
- [Jen Wilkin] And a sleepy grumpy giver is not
a cheerful giver.
- [Jen Pollock Michel] Not a cheerful giver.
- [Jackie Hill-Perry] Right, right, right.