>> DECADES AGO ISRAEL BUILT A WALL IN THE WEST BANK THAT IS
280 MILES AND 26 FEET IN HEIGHT.
THERE ARE QUESTIONS AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THAT SHOULD
COME DOWN.
THERE ARE A LOT OF ISSUES INCLUDING THE FACT THAT
EVEN THOUGH IT WAS ORIGINALLY BUILT TO PREVENT ATTACKS
TOWARD ISRAEL, IT HAS NOT BEEN SUCCESSFUL.
IT HAS CRIPPLED THE ECONOMY OF PALESTINIANS LIVING IN THE
WEST BANK.
TAKE A LOOK AT THIS VIDEO.
WATCH THE FULL VIDEO IN THE LINK IN THE DESCRIPTION BOX BELOW.
>> ISRAEL BEGAN BUILDING THE WALL IN THE EARLY 2000'S.
THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT CALLS IT THE SEPARATION BARRIER, OR
THE SECURITY FENCE AND SAYS IT IS TO KEEP OUT PALESTINIANS.
THOUSANDS OF PALESTINIANS STILL MANAGED TO GET ACROSS
LOOKING FOR WORK.
IF THE WALL DOESN'T STOP PEOPLE, THEN WHAT DOES IT DO?
TAKE A LOOK AT THE ROOT, 85 PERCENT OF IT IS INSIDE THE
OCCUPIED WEST BANK ON PALESTINIAN LAND.
INTERNATIONAL LAW SAYS IT IS ILLEGAL TO BUILD THINGS
LIKE THIS ON OCCUPIED TERRITORY.
THIS IS ONE OF OVER 200
SETTLEMENTS AND SETTLER OUTPOSTS HOUSING HALF 1 MILLION ISRAELIS.
THESE SETTLERS LIVE OUTSIDE OF ISRAEL PROPER, BUT THE WALL
HAS SHIFTED THE BOUNDARY BETWEEN ISRAEL AND THE WEST BANK TO
SWALLOW UP MORE PALESTINIAN LAND.
WHEN THE WALLS COMPLETED, AN AREA THE SIZE OF CHICAGO WOULD
HAVE BEEN ADDED TO THE ISRAELI SIDE.
WHILE SETTLERS MOVE WEST, THE PALESTINIANS WHO LIVE IN
THAT SAME TERRITORY HAVE NOT.
>> DINA IS WITH US TO TALK ABOUT THE STORY.
LET ME NOTE THAT THE PALESTINIAN GRAFFITI GAME
IS STRONG.
>> THAT WAS NOT A DONALD TRUMP WALL.
>> DONALD TRUMP PRAISES THAT WALL MANY TIMES.
I THINK PEOPLE CAN CROSS OVER A WALL TO GO TO WORK, BUT I
THINK IT HAS DONE A GOOD JOB AT KEEPING MORE BOMBERS OUT.
I AM CURIOUS WHAT YOUR TAKE ON IT IS.
I AM NOT AGAINST IT.
I'M AGAINST THE WALL WHERE IT IS.
IF THEY BUILT A WALL IN THE 1967 BORDERS WE WILL EVENTUALLY
GET TO A SETTLEMENT ALONG THOSE LINES.
THEN I WOULD LIKE THE WALL BECAUSE I THINK ISRAELIS
AND PALESTINIANS COULD USE SEPARATION FOR SOME TIME.
>> YOU ARE FOR THE WALL IF IT WORKS, BUT ON THE PROPER
BORDERS.
>> I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF THE WALL WHERE IT IS TODAY.
DINA, WHAT IS YOUR TAKE?
>> YOU MENTIONED THAT THE INTERNATIONAL COURT OF
JUSTICE RULED THAT THIS WALL IS ILLEGAL.
THE AIM AND THE ROOT IT TAKES IS NOT FOR SECURITY.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO ATTRIBUTE THE DROP IN SUICIDE BOMBERS.
THERE ARE MANY FACTORS.
THEY DO SAY WHAT THE WALL IS ACCOMPLISHING IS A LAND GROUND.
YOU HAVE ISRAELI SETTLEMENTS THAT ARE IN VIOLATION OF
INTERNATIONAL LAW THAT ARE BUILT ON THE OTHER SIDE AND
OCCUPY PALESTINIAN TERRITORY.
THE WALLS ABOUT IS LONGER BECAUSE IT WRAPS AROUND THOSE
AND WILL
ANNEX THOSE SETTLEMENTS ONTO THE ISRAELI SIDE.
>> THE WALL LOOKS LIKE A GERRYMANDERED CONGRESSIONAL
DISTRICT.
>> IT RUNS THROUGH NEIGHBORHOODS.
YOU WILL SEE ME IN BETHLEHEM.
JESUS WOULD BE SO SAD TO SEE WHAT IT IS BECAUSE YOU HAVE
A LITTLE TOUR SHOP AND THE WALL IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU.
>> I DON'T THINK JESUS WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF A TOURISM INDUSTRY.
>> I DON'T THINK WALLS ARE THE SOLUTION.
WHEN YOU ARE THERE AND SEE IT YOU SEE HOW BIG IT IS.
IT TAKES MANY DIFFERENT FORMS.
IT'S 26 FEET HIGH.
IT DOES SOMETHING TO THE HUMAN PSYCHE.
>>IF WE REACH A POINT WHERE IT WOULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE WHERE
WE KEEP PEOPLE ALIVE ñ OKAY, THAT IS YOUR COUNTRY OR BORDER.
>>ISRAEL HAS NEVER FORMALLY DECLARED WHAT ITS BORDERS ARE.
>> WE ARE DECLARING IT.
>> IT IS STILL OCCUPYING THE WEST BANK AND GAZA IN
VIOLATION OF INTERNATIONAL LAW.
>> BUT IF ISRAEL WANTS TO PULL BACK AND BUILD A WALL ON THE
1967 BORDERS, THEN EVERYONE CAN BE LIKE OKAY, GREAT.
AND WE CAN STOP REFERRING TO THESE WORDS.
THOSE ARE NOT SETTLEMENTS, THEY ARE SUBDIVISIONS.
A SETTLEMENT IS LIVING OFF THE LAND OF ISRAELIS.
THAT THING LOOKS LIKE BETHESDA.
IT IS A NICE SUBURB.
>> AND YOU DON'T GET TO BUILD SUBURBS ON SOMEBODY ELSE'S LAND.
THE POINT OF AGREEMENT WE HAVE IS THAT THE OCCUPATION IS
THE HEART OF THE PROBLEM.
IS THE WALL A PART OF LOWERING TERRORISM IN ISRAEL?
I THINK IT IS ONE OF THE CAUSES.
YOU DISAGREE.
DO WE THINK THERE SHOULD BE A WALL IF WE HAD THE RIGHT
BORDERS?
AGAIN, WE DISAGREE.
IT IS COMPLICATED, YES.
HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS ARE AGAINST WALLS.
TO ME IT DEPENDS ON WHAT WALL.
IN AMERICA I DON'T WANT WALLS ON THE MEXICAN BORDER.
I THINK THE WALL THAT SEPARATES THE TURKS AND THE GREEKS IS
A PRETTY GOOD WALL.
THEY HAVEN'T HAD ANY VIOLENCE IN 50 YEARS.
YOU CAN DISAGREE AS TO WHAT THE TURKS DID INITIALLY IN
CYPRUS, BUT THERE WAS NO VIOLENCE.
BEFORE THE WALL THERE WAS TREMENDOUS VIOLENCE BETWEEN
THE GREEKS AND THE TURKS.
IT DEPENDS.
I THINK THE ONE PART WE ALL AGREE ON IS CAN WE HAVE AN
OCCUPATION ALREADY?
IT'S LIKE THE DRUG WAR AND THE CUBAN EMBARGO.
HOW LONG CAN YOU GO AND NOT REALIZE THAT IT IS A MISTAKE?
>> WE WENT ALL OVER THE WEST BANK TO FILM THIS PIECE AND IT
IS SO DIFFICULT TO MOVE AROUND THERE BECAUSE OF THE OCCUPATION.
YOU ENCOUNTER CHECKPOINTS, ROAD CLOSURES.
THERE WERE FREQUENT CLASHES AND YOU HAVE TO REROUTE.
I SAW MORE THAN EVER THAT THE MILITARY OCCUPATION THAT
HAS BEEN IN PLACE IS SO ENTRENCHED.
THIS WALL IS FACILITATING THAT.
YOU HAVE ISRAELIS AND PALESTINIANS LIVING ON THE SAME
LAND AND THERE ARE TWO SEPARATE SYSTEMS THAT ARE GOVERNING THEM.
PALESTINIANS ARE UNDER THE MILITARY SYSTEM.
AND ISRAELIS ARE FULL ISRAELI CITIZENS.
>> TO ME, THE MOST IMPORTANT PART IS THERE SUCH A THING
AS STAID VIOLENCE.
WHEN YOU PUT PEOPLE IN OPEN AIR PRISONS AS THE GAZA STRIP
IS AND YOU BUILD A WALL AROUND THEM LIKE THEY ARE IN A
PRISON AND SAY YOU DON'T GET TO CONTROL THAT TERRITORY, YOU
DON'T HAVE SOVEREIGNTY OVER YOUR OWN CITIZENS, AND IF YOU
RESIST THEY ARE GOING TO ARREST YOU- THAT IS STATE VIOLENCE.
IF WE ARREST SOMEONE INSIDE THE UNITED STATES, IT' AN ARREST.
IF WE ARREST SOMEONE THAT IS GERMAN THAT IS A KIDNAPPING.
THAT IS IN VIOLATION OF INTERNATIONAL LAW.
THE ENTIRE OCCUPATION IS IN VIOLATION OF INTERNATIONAL LAW.
BY CONTINUING THE OCCUPATION FOR 50 YEARS
THAT IS A MISTAKE.
THEY ARE PRETTY PISSED ABOUT BEING OCCUPIED.
I THINK IT IS TERRIBLE FOR PALESTINIANS AND TERRIBLE
FOR THE ISRAELIS.
>> IT'S BETTER FOR THEM THAN IT IS FOR PALESTINIANS.
A LOT OF THEM WERE AFRAID OF THE STANDINGS THAT WERE HAPPENING.
WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE TELLING US IS THAT THIS WAS NOT A THIRD
ñ BUT EVERY 13 OR 14
YEARS A NEW GENERATION OF PALESTINIANS RISE UP.
THEY LOOK AROUND AND THEY SAY LIFE SUCKS, LIFE IS A PRISON.
>> YES, YOU GIVE CREDENCE TO
RELIGIOUS LEADERS AND TO
EXTREMIST THEMSELVES WHO SAY TO THESE KIDS YOU HAVE NOTHING.
NOW, THERE ARE GUYS THERE THAT ENCOURAGE ATTACKS.
>> THIS LATEST UNREST WAS NOT THERE.
IT WAS RANDOM LITTLE KIDS FOR THE MOST PART ACTING ON
THEIR OWN.
>> I'M JUST SAYING LIKE ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD WHERE
THERE IS ABJECT POVERTY AND NOWHERE TO GET OUT OF THAT,
YOU ARE CREATING A BREEDING GROUND FOR RELIGIOUS
ZEALOTS TO THRIVE AND RECRUIT.
IT SEEMS TRUE, BECAUSE IT IS TRUE.
>> WHEN THE PALESTINIANS STABBED THE ISRAELIS, THAT IS HORRIBLE.
ALMOST EVERY TIME IT IS AN INNOCENT CIVILIAN.
DON'T LET THAT FESTER.
WHEN YOU OCCUPY, YOU LET IT FESTER.
WHAT DO YOU THINK PEOPLE ARE GOING TO FEEL WHEN THEY ARE
OCCUPIED?
I KNOW EVERYONE HAS RATIONALIZATIONS.
WHAT IS THE PLAN?
WHEN DOES IT GET BETTER?
IT IS NOT GOING TO.
IF YOU OCCUPY TEXAS, WHAT DO YOU THINK WHAT HAPPENED TO THE
TEXANS?
MY GUESS IS IT WOULD FESTER AND THEY WOULD WANT TO STRIKE BACK.
IT WOULD HAPPEN TO ANY HUMAN BEING.
AS HUMANS WE ARE NOT BIG FANS OF BEING OCCUPIED BY SOMEONE ELSE.
IF YOU WANT TO IGNORE THAT, YOU DO IT OUT OF SHEER IRRATIONALITY
ñ FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE THEIR IDENTITY ISSUES, POLITICS,
BUT YOU ARE ALSO IGNORED AT YOUR PERIL.
LET'S GET PEACE SO BOTH SIDES CAN LIVE AT PEACE.
>>
LET'S DIRECT THIS TO THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT AS WELL.
OUR TAX DOLLARS FUND THAT OCCUPATION AND THE WALL.
THIS NEEDS TO BE DISCUSSED ON A DOMESTIC LEVEL HERE.
>> THIS CURRENT ADMINISTRATION APPARENTLY HATES ISRAEL.
>> I'M KIDDING.
THE SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL CHANGES THIS MUCH DEPENDING ON WHO
IS IN OFFICE.
>> IT DOESN'T HELP YOUR FRIEND TO CONTINUE TO ENABLE THEM
IN THE WRONG DIRECTION.
THAT IS WHY A LOT OF OUR ALLIES WHEN THE U.S.
WAS GOING TO GO TO IRAQ, SAID I'M LOOKING OUT FOR YOU BUT
DON'T DO IT.
FRANCE SAID IT AND WE MADE FRENCH FRIES FREEDOM FRIES.
THEY WERE TRYING TO HELP US AND SAY THAT IS GOING TO BE BAD
FOR YOU AND EVERYONE.
HERE IF AMERICA REALLY WANTED TO BE AN ALLY TO ISRAEL AND
SAY THIS OCCUPATION IS NOT WORKING, SO LET US HELP YOU
AND GET TO A SOLUTION SO YOU CAN WORK TOWARDS PEACE,
YOU WORK TOWARDS THE
NONVIOLENCE.
YOU ONLY WORK TOWARDS IT IF YOU ARE ON THE RIGHT PATH.
IF YOU STAY ON A PATH THAT IS NOT WORKING, YOU'LL NEVER
GET TO THE RIGHT ANSWER AND ALL YOU WILL HAVE IS MORE
FESTERING VIOLENCE ON BOTH SIDES.