>> Stephen: WELCOME BACK TO "THE LATE SHOW,"" EVERYBODY.
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, MY FIRST GUEST TONIGHT HOSTS "THE LEAD"
AND "STATE OF THE UNION" ON CNN.
PLEASE WELCOME JAKE TAPPER!
♪ ♪ ♪ >> WOW.
>> Stephen: JAKE.
GOOD TO SEE YOU.
>> THAT'S NICE.
YOU GET THAT EVERY NIGHT, HUH.
>> Stephen: YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.
ONLY WHEN YOU'RE HERE.
>> IT'S VERY QUIET ON MY SET.
>> Stephen: YOU NEED AN AUDIENCE.
>> I WILL GET AN AUDIENCE, JUST A HISS.
>> Stephen: JAIRK I HAVE SOMETHING FOR YOU.
>> WHAT'S THAT?
OH, MAN.
THAT'S AN APPLE!
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) THAT'S AN APPLE!
>> Stephen: CORKER SAID TRUMP WAS DEBASING THE OFFICE OF THE
PRESIDENCY.
FLAKE TODAY SAID, "I'M OUT OF HERE!"
YOU KNOW, "THIS IS HEAVEN HELP US, WHERE OUR COUNTRY IS GOING."
McCAIN IS TAKE SHOTS AT TRUMP.
BUT ALL OF THESE GUYS ARE LEAVING.
IS THIS AN ACT OF DEFIANCE OR IS THIS AN ACT OF SURRENDER, IN
YOUR OPINION?
>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, WE SHOULD, TO BE FAIR, FLAKE AND
McCAIN I DON'T THINK VOTED FOR TRUMP, AND THEY MADE THEIR
OPPOSITION TO TRUMP FAIRLY CLEAR LAST YEAR.
I MEAN NOT AS VOCIFEROUSLY AS THEY'RE MAKING IT TODAY.
BUT I THINK McCAIN SAILED AFTER THE "ACCESS HOLLYWOOD"
VIDEO CAME OUT HE WASN'T GOING TO VOTE FOR HIM, AND I THINK
FLAKE DID THE SAME.
I DON'T THINK IT'S AN ACT OF SURRENDER.
I THINK THE STEVE BANNONS AND BREITBARTS OF THE WORLD SEE THAT
AND SAY TRUMP BROKE FLAKE, AND TRUMP IS BREAKING THESE PEOPLE.
IN A WAY FOR TRUMP, IT'S GOOD THAT THEY'RE LEAVING.
BUT I THINK WE'RE IN A DIFFERENT PERIOD RIGHT NOW.
I HAVE BEEN READING A LOT ABOUT THE 50s LATELY, AND THERE WAS
A PERIOD-- YOU KNOW, JOE McCARTHY STARTED IN THE LATE
40s.
HIS CRUSADE OF INDECENCY AND SMEARS ANDALIZE.
AND PRESIDENT TRUMP AND JOE McCARTHY ARE VERY DIFFERENT
HISTORICAL FIGURES BUT THEY ARE SOMEWHAT SIMILAR.
THEY SAY HISTORY DOESN'T REPEAT ITSELF BUT IT RHYMES.
WHEN YOU READ ABOUT THAT ERA, JOE McCARTHY WAS DOING
INDECENT THINGS AND LYING WITH REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS NOT
SAYING ANYTHING.
AND THERE WERE PEOPLE LIKE SENATOR MARGARET CHASE SMITH OF
MAINE OTHER ANDS WHO STOOD ON THE SENATE FLOOR AND CONDEMNED
IT, BUT MOSTLY PEOPLE WERE QUIET.
AND HISTORY LOOKS BACK AT THAT TIME AND SAYS, "BOY, WHAT A
BUNCH OF WUSSES.
THEY WERE WRONG."
AND I THINK WHEN SENATOR JEFF FLAKE TODAY SAID THAT, YOU KNOW,
THERE'S GOING TO BE A RECKONING.
PEOPLE ARE GOING TO LOOK BACK AT THIS ERA AND SAY WHAT WERE YOU
DOING WITH ALL-- IT'S NOT McCARTHYISM, BUT IT'S
SOMETHING ELSE-- ALL THIS INDECENCY AND ALL THESE LIES?
WHAT DID DO YOU DURING THAT TIME?
IT'S SOMETHING I THINK ABOUT ALL TIME AS AN INTERVIEWER AND AS A
BROADCASTER.
IT'S IMPORTANT-- YOU KNOW, THERE AREN'T TWO SIDES WHEN IT COMES
TO THE TRUTH.
THERE'S ONE SIDE, THE TRUTH.
AND THEN THERE'S-- ( APPLAUSE )
>> Stephen: SO-- SO YOU HAD FLAKE ON TODAY, RIGHT?
>> YUP.
>> Stephen: DID HE TELL YOU WHY HE'S LEAVING, WHY HE'S NOT
STAYING TO FIGHT?
>> I ASKED HIM THAT VERY QUESTION, AND HE SAID THAT
BECAUSE HE THOUGHT THIS FEVER THAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS IN
IS GOING TO BE-- ISN'T GOING TO BE OVER NEXT YEAR.
IN OTHER WORDS, HE DIDN'T THINK HE WAS GOING TO WIN UNLESS HE
RAN THE KIND OF CAMPAIGN HE WOULDN'T BE PROUD OF, AN UGLY,
DIRTY, NASTY CAMPAIGN, A CAMPAIGN THAT HE WOULD HAVE TO
COZY UP TO PRESIDENT TRUMP IN A WAY THAT WOULDN'T MAKE HIM
COMFORTABLE BUT THAT IS A MESSAGE OF DESPAIR.
THAT'S SAYING THAT TRUTH CAN'T WEN.
>> YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.
THE TRUTH CAN'T WIN A REPUBLICAN PRIMARY IN ARIZONA.
( LAUGHTER ) ( APPLAUSE )
IS WHAT HE'S SAYING.
>> Stephen: OH, OKAY.
OKAY.
STILL, NOT THAT-- STILL NOT THAT HOPEFUL.
SO DO YOU THINK THERE'S ANY CHANCE THAT HE'S PUG OUT SO HE
CAN PREPARE TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT OR SOMETHING, TO CHALLENGE-- DID
YOU TALK ABOUT THAT?
>> YEAH, I DID ASK HIM ABOUT THAT, AND HE SAID-- HE GAVE MY
FAVORITE ANSWER, "THAT'S A LONG WAY OFF.
THAT'S A LONG WAY OFFMENT.
NO IT'S NOT, NOT REALLY.
>> Stephen: DONALD TRUMP IS RAISING MONEY.
>> I MEAN, I CAN TELL YOU I'M NOT GOING TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT
IN 2020 BUT HE WOULDN'T SAY NO.
>> Stephen: BUT THE DOOR IS OPEN.
>> THE DOOR IS CLOSED.
>> Stephen: NOBODY SAID ANYTHING ABOUT YOU RUNNING FOR
PRESIDENT UNTIL YOU BROUGHT IT UP RIGHT NOW, AND NOW IT'S OUT
THERE, JAKE.
YOU HAVE TO ADMIT, IT'S OUT THERE NOW ON A NATIONAL PROGRAM
THAT TALKS ABOUT POLITICS A LOT.
THAT CAME OUT.
I I DIDN'T HAVE TO PRY THAT OUT OF YOU, JAKE.
>> STEPHEN -- >> Stephen: JAKE, YOU KNOW
WHAT THAT IS?
THAT'S AN APPLE, JAKE.
DON'T BANANA, ME, NAIK.
DON'T YOU BANANA ME.
>> I HAVE NO PLANS TO EAT THAT APGLEL OKAY, OKAY.
>> CURRENTLY.
( LAUGHTER ) ( APPLAUSE )
( SIGHS ) SO DOES YOUR McCARTHY METAPHOR
HAVE ANY HOPE TO IT?
>> WELL, ULTIMATELY, McCARTHY IMPLODED.
ULTIMATELY -- >> Stephen: WELL, ULTIMATELY
SOMEBODY STOOD UP TO HIM AT LAST AND SAID, "AT LOLONG LAST, SENAT
HAVE YOU NO SHAME?" TRUMP HAS NO SHAME.
WE KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT.
YOU CAN'T SHAME HIM TO SOME BAD POSITION.
HE WILL CONTINUE WITHOUT THOUGHT, TO LIE TO MAINTAIN HIS
POWER AND POSITION.
HOW DO YOU THINK HE GETS TAKEN OUT?
>> I HAVEN'T FLIPPED AHEAD.
I DON'T KNOW HOW IT ENDS.
>> Stephen: REALLY?
I WANT TO GET THE TEACHER'S EDITION THAT HAS ALL THE ANSWERS
IN THE BACK.
>> I DON'T KNOW HOW IT ALL ENDS.
AND, ALSO, ONE OF THE OTHER QUESTIONS IS WHEN YOU HAVE
McCAIN AND FLAKE AND CORKER, ALSO, THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE WHO
HAVE BEEN CRITICAL-- SUSAN COLLINS OF MAINE, BEN SASS OF
NEBRASKA HAS BEEN CRITICAL.
DOES THAT MEAN THERE WILL BE A BIG RUSH OF REPUBLICANS TO COME
OUT AND SAY WHAT THEY REALLY THINK AND CONDEMENT FACT THAT WE
ARE GET AGO WE ARE BEING TREATED AS A NATION TO MORE LIES AND
INDECENCY ON A DAILY BASIS FROM THIS WHITE HOUSE THAN WE ARE
USED TO?
I MEAN, AND I ALWAYS SAY I NEVER BET ON COURAGE IN WASHINGTON,
D.C.
AND I NEVER BET ON POLITICIANS BEING CANDID AND SAYING WHAT
THEY REALLY THINK.
>> Stephen: ON CAMERA.
>> RIGHT.
BUT, BUT-- BUT WHO KNOWS?
I MEAN -- >> Stephen: DO YOU EVER HEAR
THINGS BACKSTAGE?
DO YOU HEAR THINGS OFF CAMERA THAT ARE-- ARE THE THINGS THAT
YOU WOULD LIKE TO BE ABE TO TELL US THAT SENATOR OR CONGRESSMEN
OR MEMBERRING OF THE ADMINISTRATION HAVE SAID TO YOU
THAT ARE OFF THE RECORD AND YOU SAY, "OH, LORD.
I WISH THEY WOULD SAY THAT OUT LOUD?"
>> YES, BUT I WILL TELL YOU THIS-- AND THIS WON'T COME TO
ANY SURPRISE TO YOU OR YOUR VIEWERS OR YOUR AUDIENCE, BUT
THERE ARE PEOPLE, REPUBLICANS ON CAPITOL HILL AND IN THE
ADMINISTRATION WHO FEEL AS THOUGH THIS SITUATION IS WHAT IT
IS.
IT'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE ANY TIME SOON, SO THE BEST THEY CAN
DO IS TRY TO STEER IT IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY YOU HAVE
PEOPLE IN THE ADMINISTRATION LIKE JAMES MATTIS AS SECRETARY
OF DEFENSE, OR H.R. McMASTER, THE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER,
ET CETERA.
BOB CORKER BASICALLY SAID HE HAD BEEN TRYING TO DO THAT AS THE
CHAIRMAN OF THE SENATE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE, AS SOMEBODY
WHO WAS PRO TRUMP DURING THE CAMPAIGN, BUT HE'S FINALLY JUST
GIVING UP.
HE CAN'T BE THE BALLAST IN THE SHIP ANYMORE.
THAT IT'S, YOU KNOW, ROCKING TOO MUCH AND WHO KNOWS WHERE IT'S
HEADED?
BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE IN THE ADMINISTRATION WHO FEEL LIKE-- I
MEAN, EVERYBODY SEES WHAT'S GOING ON.
I MEAN, BUT, SOME PEOPLE FEEL, OKAY, BUT THIS IS WHAT WE NEED
TO DO.
AND HE'S THE PRESIDENT, AND WE NEED TO STEER THE SHIP IN THE
RIGHT DIRECTION.
>> Stephen: BILL O'REILLY TOOK A POKE AT YOU A COUPLE OFIDIZE
AGO.
AND YOU RESPONDED WITH LIGHTNING SPEED.
YOU TWEETED-- HE TWEETED THIS AT AT YOU:
WITHIN 10-- >> WHICH, BY THE WAY, FACT
CHECK, OUR RATINGS ARE FINE.
HE JUST WANTED TO TAKE A SHOT AT ME BECAUSE I HAD BEEN MENTIONING
HIM AS A SEXUAL PREDATOR ON AIR WHEN WE WERE COVERING THE HARVEY
WEINSTEIN SCANDAL-- ( APPLAUSE )
ALSO POINTING OUT THAT THIS IS-- THIS-- WEINSTEIN IS NOT THE ONLY
ONE, THAT O'REILLY AND AILES WERE HORRIFIC SEXUAL PREDATORS
AT FOX.
>> Stephen: WITHIN 10 MINUTES YOU TWEETED BACK:
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) ARE.
>> WELL-- >> Stephen: I DON'T EVEN KNOW
WHAT TO ASK ABOUT THIS.
I JUST WANTED TO SHARE WITH EVERYBODY THAT YOU ARE A VERY
MEAN PERSON, JAKE TAPPER.
>> YOU KNOW, I'M A JOURNALIST, SO I LIKE TO EXPLAIN THINGS, AND
I FELT HE WAS USING THE WORD "LOW" INCORRECTLY.
( LAUGHTER ) >> Stephen: YEAH, THAT'S TRUE.
( APPLAUSE ) THAT'S TRUE.
>> YOU KNOW, RATINGS GO UP AND RATINGS GO DOWN, BUT THAT'S LOW.
( LAUGHTER ) >> Stephen: WELL, JAKE, THANK
YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
IT'S ALWAYS-- USUALLY A IT'S A MORE HOPEFUL CONVERSATION THE
TWO OF US HAVE.
I REALLY ENJOYED HAVING YOU HERE.
>> DO YOU FEEL WORSE, THOUGH?
>> Stephen: A LITTLE WORSE, A LITTLE WORSE.
>> BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S ACTUALLY MY JOB.
I'M NOT SUPPOSED TO MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER.
I'M SUPPOSED TO TELL YOU WHAT'S ACTUALLY GOING ON.
>> I HAD SOMEONE IN THE SAME SEAT SAYING I CAN'T GIVE YOU
HOPE.
A.O.L. A JOURNALIST.
THAT'S NOT MY JOB.
>> I CAN'T SUGAR COAT IT.
IT'S AN APPLE.
>> Stephen: I WANT A CARMEL APPLE!
YOU CAN SEE JAKE WEEKDAYS ON "THE LEAD" AND SUNDAY MORNINGS
ON "STATE OF THE UNION," BOTH ON CNN.
JAKE TAPPER, EVERYBODY!
WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH SHEMAR MOORE.