Hey guys, Rebecca Zung here, top 1% divorce attorney and the author of the books Negotiate
Like you Matter and Breaking Free: A Step-by-Step Divorce Guide.
And thanks for joining me on this part two of episode three of my entire series with
Dr. Ramani where we have put together a whole series on How to Negotiate with a Narcissist
in Divorce.
This is episode three, this is part two of episode three which is Do's and Don'ts of
How to Negotiate with a Narcissist in Divorce.
In part one we actually went over the do's.
So if you haven't watched that now you should go and check that out.
I will drop a link to that below and in this part two we're going over the don'ts of what
to do when you're negotiating with a narcissist in divorce.
So definitely check it out.
If you have not already subscribed to my channel, make sure you do that now and hit the little
notification bell so that you can be notified when we upload new videos.
And I upload new videos every single week and you also will be notified when I upload
the rest of this series.
So without further ado, let's dive in.
So let's talk then about the don'ts because I think in some ways the do's, while reassuring,
the don'ts are where we can really steer people away from the rocks.
Yeah.
So we talked a little bit in the previous video about boundaries and so I would say
don't let them cross your boundaries.
Once you have set an expectation or you've said we're only going to use this app to communicate
with or I have exclusive occupancy of the house, you're not allowed to come over unless
you email me first and get my permission.
You're not allowed to show up at my office unless you ask me first.
Whatever expectations you've set, you have to stick to it.
And don't allow them to cross those boundaries because that's something that veer, that's
very typical of all the narcissists.
They don't believe that boundaries apply to them.
Well that's the entitlement.
The entitlement is boundaries don't count.
They apply to you.
And in fact, many times the narcissist will weaponize boundaries.
They'll learn that fancy word through the whole process of going through this and they'll
say, you're crossing my boundary.
But they will do it organically.
They've always done it.
And I think, like you said, you nailed it because, and we talked about this in the other
videos too, is this idea of not wanting to seem like the stick in the mud.
Like, Whoa, okay, what do you mean you can't meet at Starbucks?
Are you so rigid where you don't want to be rigid girl, or rigid guy?
So I think that you have to remember, boundaries are an incredibly important foundation because
you're going to need them going forward.
The divorce is just a process setting you up for the rest of your life.
And as long as you particularly have minor children, this is going to be an issue.
But even if you don't.
I mean one day these kids might get married or have a graduation and on and on and on.
The more you can stick to those boundaries and be consistent about them, the more they
will be easier to practice in the future.
Yeah.
So another don't is to get emotional or feel victimized or take things personally.
I mean, it's all kind of the same boat.
They're just feeling, hurt when they lie about you or when they engage in their smear campaign,
which is something they're probably going to do.
Don't engage with that.
Well, we talked about that, but it's a really big donut and it's really, really important
that you try to look at it from a factual point of view, almost as if you're watching
a movie of your life.
Oh, I just see that he just said that to her and you're just going to say, okay, I see.
Dr. Bill Eddy, who I've interviewed on my show.
And so for my listeners, you can go back and watch the interviews that I have with him
in the video form or on my podcast.
He talks about the BIFF method, which is Brief, Informative, Friendly, and Firm.
But it's basically the whole premise of what he's saying is don't engage, don't be pulled
into the mud because as soon as you go off the handle, as soon as you're crying, screaming,
yelling, fighting back, now you're in the mud with them.
Now they know they have you.
And, and I think that listen, we're all saying the same thing, Bill Eddy, Dr. Ramani, everybody
is saying the same thing.
Okay?
So it's that don't engage becomes this absolutely critical pivot on this.
I'm going to put my little bit of shrink wrap on this, which is you are feeling, okay?
You are feeling so we, no one can tell you don't, to stop feeling.
You will feel.
It's how you communicate that feeling in a moment.
So in many ways what we're suggesting is actually quite superhuman.
It's putting this strong tsunami of emotion behind a dam and that it doesn't mean you'll
never show it.
You've got to find those places to show it.
If you're in therapy of some kind, if you have trusted friends.
Some people find other ways to sublimate it through creative approaches, through writing,
through exercise, through spirituality.
There're places that they take it.
I even in my retreats come up with sort of ritualized exercises do to help people let
go of some of this, because some of it you can't.
You have to express it or you will get sick, but it is this sense of the one place you
can actually get a lot of self-possession in all of this.
A relationship with a narcissist feels like you're constantly on a chaotic roller coaster
that's about to go off the tracks all the time.
And so you're always living in this fear, exhilaration, confusion, kind of a situation.
But what becomes interesting is if you can learn to be that serene self, and I often
say you've got to channel this serenity going to be calm, you're going to be tight, you're
going to keep your answers brief.
Once you practice that, even just one or two times, you're going to recognize the power
of it and there's a power you feel in that moment.
You may literally have to keep tears behind.
You may go to the restroom and wipe them off.
Anytime you do know you're going to be doing this kind of work, meeting with mediators,
going to court, sitting in lawyer's offices and having to encounter that narcissist again,
keep your makeup kit and tissues and all that because you may cry it all off in the bathroom,
put it all back on, let's give yourself that out.
But do not let them see the crack because they will always exploit those beautiful vulnerabilities
you have.
But unfortunately your vulnerabilities in their hands become weapons.
100% and the more you do that, the more you slap that makeup back on and go back in there,
the more powerful you'll feel and the more confident you feel.
That fake it until you make it really is true.
Yep.
Actually, so my last don't is really just don't give in and don't give up because they
will try everything they can to get you to do that.
I mean, so just be patient and persevere.
Keep going because it will be worth it in the end.
And I'm going to give you one last don't from my side, which you know is at the absolute
central core of the thesis of my book.
Should I Stay or Should I Go?
Is don't maintain false hope.
Your relationship got this far because you came at it from a place of hope and fear.
Hope that it might get better.
They might change after this deadline, after the baby gets older.
After this, it never happened.
Okay.
So don't maintain that false hope.
The other thing that kept you in place was fear.
I don't want to be alone forever.
What will other people think?
I vowed to myself, I wouldn't get divorced.
I'm not going to be able to afford to live.
And on and on and on.
That powerful alchemy of hope and fear is what keeps these relationships going.
But it's critical.
As you go through this process, you don't maintain false hope.
Part of your attorney's job is that you don't get to maintain that false hope.
If you walk into your attorney's office and say, "Hey, I want everything and I want 100%
custody", it's your attorney's job saying, "Sweetie?
I mean, I'll get you, which I can, but you ain't getting that".
If you have an attorney that says, "Oh, I'll get you 100% of his paycheck for alimony and
100% custody", keep going.
Find a different lawyer.
So you don't want to get those false hopes, maintain and like, you know people, I can't
begin to tell you how many people out there said, "I got this and once the judge sees
what a jerk he is.
They're going to get everything".
And then they go and sit in an attorney's office and the attorney says, "Here's what
we're looking at".
And the person will say, "You mean that the judge is potentially going to let them have
the kids half the time"?
They said potentially, you can count on it.
And for a lot of people they said, and they're completely shattered.
So I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.
Oh, that is such a good point.
So when I talk about divorce law versus divorce justice.
Those are my little words for it.
So divorce law is what's going to happen and that's how it just gets applied.
The judges, I mean in mediation you might be able to veer off from the law a little
bit, but if you end up in front of a judge, the judges job, they're sworn to apply the
law, that's all they can do.
That is all they can do.
If they don't apply the law, they'll get appealed.
They won't get reelected.
All kinds of bad things start to happen to them.
Judges get graded on how many times they get appealed.
So they're not going to do anything other than apply the law.
And so, these people have these notions that people are going to go in and the heavens
are going to open and they're going to see what a horrible person he's been to me and
he's going to give me everything.
That is not going to happen.
It's just not.
So divorce justice doesn't happen and the gavels are not magic wands.
They can't make the other person be a good person.
They can't make them into a good dad.
They can't make them into having a conscience.
They can't make them care.
There's only so much they can order them to do.
And remember, and this is the one thing I got into one of my YouTube videos, you may
want to check out.
Narcissism isn't against the law.
It feels like it should be against the law, but it's not against the law.
So even if that judge, and you may never hear it from her or him, might be thinking, "Oh
my God, this guy's such a jerk".
That is a not against the law.
And at the end of the day as Rebecca is saying that that is their job, to see through the
law.
That they deliver that.
And listen, I've heard people hear things as harsh from judges as saying, "You chose
this person.
It's not the job of this court to correct your bad decision making".
And it's devastating for people to hear.
It's devastating.
It really is.
Sadly, yes, there may be a grain of truth to it.
However, and this is in my big fantasy, Dr. Ramani world is all of what we're talking
about.
I wish people could see this before they even really start dating and getting married.
I mean, that to me, my mission is to teach people to be better gatekeepers.
So you don't sit in a courtroom one day and you think about the 10,000 red flags, you
ignored to get you to that day or whatever.
And then when the judge finally says to you, "You made this choice".
Yeah, I know that.
And it is not the job of the court to fix that mess.
It really isn't.
Hopefully they could get it righter than they do, cause they often don't get it right frankly.
And then in the next issue being that it isn't against the law and I think it's heartbreaking.
I wish it was and if I ran the world.
It would be.
But, I don't.
Yeah.
And it's not, it's not against, you can have narcissistic parents too and it doesn't, it's
not grounds for taking custody from them.
So unfortunately- Yeah, it's a tough one.
So don't give in and don't give up and don't and don't have false hope.
Yep.
Thanks so much for joining us today on the third part of this series on How to Negotiate
with a Narcissist.
It's been my thrill, my honor, and so much fun.
And it really, for me to be with Dr. Ramani and learn so much from her and share ideas
and for us to share our expertise with you because we know what you're going through.
We know you're going through hell and it's hell to stay and it's hell to leave.
So what we're doing with these videos is giving you some lifelines, some way of supporting
you and we hope that we've been able to do that for you today.
Make sure that if you've gotten value from this, you hit the little subscribe button,
you hit the notification bell.
We're going to be back with more with my conversation with Dr. Ramani in the next episode, so thanks
so much for joining us today.
Thanks for joining me on this part two of episode three in our entire series on How
to Negotiate with the Narcissist in Divorce.
If you are getting ready to negotiate with a narcissist, you will definitely want to
grab my Crush My Negotiation prep worksheet.
It is totally free.
It is chockfull of information and I will drop a link to that below.
If you feel like you need additional support and you want to connect with other people
who are dealing with a narcissist in any type of a relationship, I have a free Facebook
group.
You're going to want to join that as well.
It's called Narcissist Negotiators with Rebecca Zung.
And just hit join and answer those couple of questions.
We just want to make sure that the people in the group really are dealing with narcissists
because we're here to give each other support with that.
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I'm Rebecca Zung.
I'm so glad that you were here and you watched this video and I will see you in the next
one.
In the meantime, today is a great day to start negotiating your best life.