>> Stephen: HEY.
WELCOME BACK, EVERYBODY.
LADIES AND GERMS, >> Stephen: MY NEXT GUEST IS A
PULITZER PRIZE-WINNING JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR OF THE
BOOKS, "WAR ON PEACE" AND "CATCH AND KILL."
PLEASE WELCOME BACK TO THE LATE SHOW, RONAN FARROW.
>> GOOD TO BE BECOME.
>> GOOD TO HAVE YOU, HOW LONG HAS IT BEEN SINCE.
>> PREPANDEMIC.
>> Stephen: PREPANDEMIC.
>> REMEMBER WE WERE LOCKED AND DID ZOOM A COUPLE OF TIMES.
>> THIS IS BETTER.
>> I LIKE THE SUIT.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>> Stephen: 70S VIBE, WITH THE OPEN CLAR, DIK ABBOTT.
>> A LITTLE PINK FOR PRIDE.
>> Stephen: NOW IT HAS BEEN A TOUGH TIME.
AND YOU SEE THE NEW HBO DOCUMENTARY CALLED ENDANGERED,
THE CHRONICLES TEMPORARIES-- CONTEMPORARY
HOSTILITY FOR JOURNALISTS AROUND THE WORLD INCLUDING THE UNITED
STATES.
WHAT MADE YOU WANT TO MAKE THIS NOW?
>> WELL, I THINK THAT FOR ANYONE WHO DOES CONFRONTING JOURNALISM,
WE FEEL VERY ACUTELY WHAT HAPPENS TO OUR PEERS, OUR
COLLEAGUES AROUND THE WORLD WHEN THEY TRY TO DO THE SAME.
I'M IN A COUNTRY STILL TO THIS DAY THAT HAS DECENT RULE OF LAW,
RELATIVELY-- WHERE YOU KNOW, I MIGHT BE GET INTIMIDATING
LEGAL THREATS, SMEAR EFFORTS BUT I AM REASONABLY CONFIDENT I'M
NOT GOING TO WIND UP DEAD THE NEXT DAY, THAT IS NOT TRUE IF
YOU ARE A JOURNALIST IN RUSSIA, PAKISTAN, A LOT OF PLACES SO IT
FELT IMPORTANT FOR ME TO DO SOMETHING THAT I'M NOT IN, BUT
THAT HUMANIZES THAT STRUGGLE FOR PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD AND
SPECIFICALLY PEOPLE IN DEMOCRACY DOING REPORTING THAT IS REALLY
IMPORTANT TO BRING UP THE ACCOUNT ABILITY AND FACING
THREATS THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN UNTHINKABLE IN THOSE COUNTRIES,
NOT THAT LONG AGO.
>> BUT YOU ALSO INCLUDE UNITED STATES IN THE DOCUMENTARY.
>> YEAH, IT LOOKS AT THE FORCES IN THE UNITED STATES THAT ARE
ERODING OUR BASE OF JOURNALISM AND FACTS THAT VOTERS CAN RELY
ON.
ECONOMIC CHALLENGES FOR THE NUTION INDUSTRY THAT ARE CAUSING
CLOSURES OF NEWSROOM AFTER NEWSROOM, AND FASCIST AND
AUTHORITYIAN THREAD IN POLITICS THAT SEEKS TO DEMONIZE AND
ALIENATE THE PRESS FROM ITS PEOPLE.
>> THE PREVIOUS PRESIDENT SAID VERY SPECIFICALLY THAT HE WANTED
TO ADDRESS THE FATE OF THE PRESS SO JOURNALISTS COULD BE SUED FOR
LIABLE MORE EASILY.
>> AND YOU SEE IN THIS FILM A WONDERFUL PHOTOGRAPHER FROM ITS
"MIAMI HERALD" WHO IS CONTENDING WITH BOTH OF THOSE THINGS AT THE
SAME TIME.
WADING INTO THE CROWD, FACING EVEN THREAT OF VIOLENCE, ARE YOU
SEEING THAT IN CROWDS AT SOME OF THESE MAGA EVENTS IN RECENT
YEARS.
>> ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE.
>> ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE AND THAT IS NOT A NEW THING, THAT IS AN
OLD TACTIC USED BY THORN LEADERS AND WE ARE SEEING IT RESURGE
AROUND THE WORLD INCLUDE NTION THE COUNTRIES THAT WE LOOK AT IN
THIS FILM.
AND THAT'S SCARY BECAUSE THAT IS NOT AN INCIDENTAL ISSUE.
THAT UNDERPINS EVERY MAJOR ISSUE RELATED TO OUR RIGHTS AND
FREEDOMS, IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE FACTS, YOU CAN'T CREATE
ACCOUNTABILITY.
>> DEMOCRACY DIES IN DARKNESS SWAS AS SOME WOULD SAY.
>> THERE IS SOMETHING TO THIS.
>> I'M CURIOUS, YOU MIGHT, I AM WONDERING WHETHER YOU HAVE GOT
A-- CASE HERE BECAUSE AT ONE TIME WAS THINKING OUR PREVIOUS
PRESIDENT WAS SORT OF AN ABERRATION, ALMOST LIKE A MUTANT
WE DIDN'T EXPECT IN THE LINEAL-- LINEAGE OF OUR
PRESIDENT.
BUT THIS THORTDIAN TENDENCY IS ARISING CERTAINLY IN EVERY
HEMISPHERE IF NOT IN EVERY TIME ZONE.
WHAT IS YOUR THEORY OF THE CASE WHERE IT IS HAPPENING TO MUCH
NOW.
>> I THINK IT IS LINKED TO THIS ISSUE OF THE FREE PRESS.
AND IT ALL STARTS, YOU KNOW THERE IS A NUMBER OF FACTORS BUT
I THINK IT DOES ALL START IN A WAY WITH THE FACTS THAT PEOPLE
HAVE, AND THE ECONOMIC FORCES THAT ARE CREATING WHAT PEOPLE
SOMETIMES CALL NEWS DESERTS AROUND THE UNITED STATES.
SO MANY COMMUNITIES JUST DON'T HAVE A PAPER OF RECORD, DON'T
HAVE A LOCAL PAPER AT ALL STVMENT IN THE RISE OF SOCIAL
MEDIA WHERE PEOPLE CAN LIVE IN A LITTLE BUBBLE OF THEIR OWN FACTS
THAT THEY ALREADY AGREE WITH, WHERE PEOPLE CAN HEAR PHRASES
LIKE FAKE NEWS AND IT CAN RESONATED WITH THEM BECAUSE ALL
THEY ARE GETTING EVERY DAY IS THAT DRUM BEAT.
>> Stephen: AND THOSE TWO THINGS TOGETHER, THE NEWS DESERT
AND SOCIAL MEDIA MAKE KIND OF KILLS LOCAL NEWS AND MAKES EVERY
STORY A NATIONAL STORY OR ALL CONCERNS NATIONAL CONCERN.
>> WHICH SAY TRAGEDY ON MULTIPLE LEVELS BECAUSE THERE IS URGENT
POLICY CONCERNS AT A LOCAL LEVEL IN COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL
REPORTERS IN TV AND PRINT ARE STILL OUT THERE STRUTION ELING
TO DO REALLY IMPORTANT WORK BUT THERE IS LESS AND LESS OF IT,
NOT WHAT WE NEED, AND I DID A LOT OF REPORTING ON THE JANUARY
6th RIOTERS AND IDENTIFIED A BUNCH OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS.
AND THOSE CONVERSATIONS REENFORCE TO ME WE NEED MORE AND
BETTER REPORTING IN COMMUNITIES AROUND THIS COUNTRY.
WE NEED TO SPHORT OUR JOURNALISTS OTHERWISE WE'RE
GOING TO HAVE PEOPLE IN THIS STATE OF RAGE AND WHO ARE VERY
MAN I OUTABLE WHO WANT TO -- THESE AUTHORITYIAN ARGUMENTS.
>> Stephen: WE HAVE A CLIP HERE, YOU TALK ABOUT THE LOSS OF
LOCAL NEWS, LOCAL NEWSPAPERS THERE IS A CLIP HERE WHICH DEALS
WITH THAT, WHO IS THAT DURING THIS INTERVIEW HERE.
>> THIS IS A GUARDIAN REPORTER NAMED OLLIE, A WONDERFUL
JOURNALIST AND HE HAD TO WADE KIND OF THROUGH HELL AND BACK IN
THIS FILL.
YOU WILL SEE.
JIM?
>> IS MEANING THAT YOUNGSTOWN IS NOW THE BIGGEST CITY IN AMERICA
WITHOUT A LOCAL NEWSPAPER.
ARE YOU UPSET BY THAT?
>> NO, IT'S JUST A SIGN OF THE TIMES.
THEY'RE A DYING INDUSTRY BECAUSE THEY ARE SO MUCH PROGRESSIVE.
WE ARE NOT LEFT WING PROGRESSIVE.
WE STOPPED BUYING THE NEWSPAPER.
WE STOPPED THEM JUST HAVING ONE POINT OF VIEW, THE DEMOCRATS.
WHY I AM GOING TO PAY FOR A PAPER THAT CALLS ME ALL KINDS OF
NAMES BECAUSE I'M A CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN.
THAT IS WHY THEY ARE A DYING INDUSTRY.
>> DON'T YOU THINK THOUGH THAT THIS COMMUNITY HAS A RIGHT TO
HAVE ACCOUNTABILITY JOURNALISM. THAT IS WHAT THE FUNCTION OF
THAT PAPER WAS, TO HOLD THE POWERS TO ACCOUNT.
>> I DON'T BELIEVE THEY DID I'M NOT GOING TO BUY A NEWSPAPER
THAT DOESN'T REFLECT MY VIEWS.
>> SO THIS IS CENTRAL TO THE PROBLEMS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, I
THINK WHEN WE HAVE BASIC RIGHTS RIPPED AWAY FROM US, A LOT OF
THE TIME ONE OF THE CORE THINGS UNDERPINNING THAT IS THE FACTS
WE HAVE AS A PUBLIC, AN ELECTORATE AND WHO WE BRIPG IN
SOMETIMES DUE TO A LACK OF THE FACTS PENETRATING WHO WE SEE
OVER AND OVER AGAIN IN THIS PARTICULAR JOURNALY THERE ARE
FOUR CHARACTERS DEALING WITH DIFFERENT TREND LINES AND HOW IT
IMPACTS THEIR PERSONAL LIVES. AND HIS JOURNEY IS A LOT ABOUT
WADING THROUGH THAT KIND OF MISINFORMATION CULTURE.
>> WELL, ON A LIGHTER SUBJECT, THEY PAY ME FOR THE SEGUE.
YOU WRITE BOOKS, YOU REPORT FOR "THE NEW YORKER," PROJECTS ON
AUDIBLE NECO BUT I WANT TO TALK ABOUT A PROJECT YOU WERE
INVOLVED WITH FAIRLY RECENTLY.
YOU WERE A JUDGE ON RUPAUL'S DRAG RACE SEASON SEVEN.
>> I WAS.
>> Stephen: HOW WOULD YOU COMPARE THIS RESPONSIBILITY TO
SOME OF THE OTHER JOBS THAT YOU HAVE DONE?
>> I MEAN ONE OF MY TOUGHEST ASSIGNMENTS AND LOOK, I WANTED
TO DO OKAY SO BADLY.
I HOPE THE DRAG RACE DIE HEARTS ARE KIND TO ME.
HAVE I BEEN ASKED BEFORE, RU WAS GRACIOUS AND WANTED ME ON SOME
YEARS AGO, THE FIRST TIME I WAS BOOKED ON THE SHOW IT WAS
OCTOBER 2017, I WAS A LITTLE BUSY AT THE TIME.
>> I REMEMBER.
>> I WAS WORKING ON A STORY ABOUT HARVEY WEINSTEIN AND
GETTING SOME OF THESE-- WASN'T EATING, WASN'T SLEEPING, WAS
BEING FOLLOWED AROUND IT WAS THIS EXISTENTIAL GIANTS THING
THAT THE EDITORS OF THE NEW YORK PRER WORKING ON, I WAS WORKING
ON.
AND I DID GO AT THE 11th HOUR AND SAY WE ARE RUNG THIS
STORY ON THIS DAY, THE EXACT DAY.
BUT CAN I LEAVE TO JUDGE A DRAG PANCAKE COMPETITION.
AND THEY LOOKED AT ME LIKE I WAS COMPLETELY INSANE.
AND SAID NO.
SO I WAS SO HONORED TO BE ASKED BACK AND I WAS SO EXCITED TO DO.
AND BOY, THEY'RE GREAT QUEENS ON THIS SEASON, THEY ARE ALL
WINNERS, THE THINGS YOU WILL SEE ON THIS EPISODE THAT I DID, IT
BLEW MY MIND.
>> CAN EVERYONE BE A WINNER, DON'T YOU HAVE TO JUDGE WHO THE
WIN CERTIFICATE.
>> THEY ARE PICKING A WINNER T IS VERY COMPLICATED POLITICS,
STEVEN.
>> RONAN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE, THANK YOU FOR ALWAYS
PRETENDING THE FREE PRESS, ITS WOODWARD AND BERNSTEIN EPISODE,
THE WAY YOU ARE CONSTANTLY PART OF THAT DRUM BEAT, WE NEED IT
RIGHT NOW.
>> Stephen: NICE OF YOU TO SAY, THANK YOU FOR BEING THE
FREE PRESS.
>> Stephen: THE HBO DOCUMENTARY FILM, "ENDANGERED," DEBUTS
TOMORROW ON HBO AND HBO MAX.
RONAN FARROW, EVERYBODY!
WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.