>>> TONIGHT NEPR'S KAREN BROWN DISCUSSES THE LATEST IN A
WRONGFUL CONVICTION CASE OF A FORMER SPRINGFIELD RESIDENT,
MARK SCHAND.
HE WAS RECENTLY AWARDED $27 MILLION, THAT'S $1 MILLION
FOR A EACH YEAR THAT HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN A FREE MAN.
>> HE WASN'T REALLY EXPECTING ANYTHING.
HE'S SO USED TO THE SYSTEM FAILING HIM, IS AWE HOE PUTS IT
THAT HE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT.
BUT WHEN THEY MADE THAT ANNOUNCEMENT, THE ENTIRE
COURTROOM, ALL HIS FRIENDS AND FAMILY, JUST ERUPTED IN CHEERS
AND CRYING.
>> THAT'S SOMETHING YOU OFTEN SEE IN COURT WHERE THERE'S AN
ACTUAL AUDIBLE LARGE REACTION TO SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS.
>> YES.
IT SOUNDS LIKE HIS FAMILY WAS MORE REACTIVE THAN HIM.
HE'S PROBABLY STILL LIKE, HOW IS THIS GOING TO WORK OUT.
>> SO EXPLAIN TO US, THIS IS DIFFERENT.
HE WAS AWARDED HALF A MILLION DOLLARS FROM THE STATE
PREVIOUSLY.
>> RIGHT.
>> HOW IS THIS DIFFERENT?
>> THERE ARE DIFFERENT WAYS TO REQUEST COMPENSATION WHEN YOU'RE
WRONG MY CONVICTED AND IT'S DIFFERENT IN EVERY STATE.
IN MASSACHUSETTS THE MAXIMUM AMOUNT YOU COULD GET FROM THE
STATE AS PART OF THE LAW FOR JUST ALLOWING THIS TO HAPPEN WAS
A MAXIMUM OF HALF A MILLION DOLLARS.
IT'S NOW A MILLION DOLLARS.
BUT WHEN HE WAS IN THAT POSITION IT WAS HALF A MILLION.
HE GOT ALMOST THAT MUCH.
>> AND HIS CASE WAS PART OF WHAT CHANGED THAT COMPENSATION
STRUCTURE, RIGHT?
>> RIGHT, BECAUSE YOU ONLY GOT HALF A MILLION DOLLARS, WHICH
WHEN YOU LOOK AT 27 YEARS IN PRISON FOR MANY PEOPLE DOESN'T
SEEM LIKE VERY MUCH.
IT DOESN'T ALLOW YOU TO MAKE UP FOR ALL THOSE YEARS, AND IT
DIDN'T INCLUDE A LOT OF SERVICES AND JOB TRAINING AND OTHER
THINGS YOU NEED TO GET ON YOUR FEET.
SO PARTLY AS A RESULT OF HIS CASE, THE LEGISLATURE CHANGED
THAT.
SO THAT'S GOOD FOR FUTURE PEOPLE.
IT'S STILL UP TO A MILLION.
SO THAT MEANT THAT HIS ONLY OTHER RECOURSE TO TRY AND GET
MONETARY COMPENSATION, AND HE'S ALWAYS SAID, YOU KNOW, MONEY
ISN'T GOING TO BRING HIM BACK HIS TIME, BUT IT'S SOMETHING, SO
THE OTHER RECOURSE WAS TO SUE, CIVILLY, AND THAT'S WHAT THIS
WAS.
>> SO, FOR HIM TO DO THAT, THOUGH, HE HAD TO SPEND HIS OWN
MONEY, HE HAD TO HIRE A LAWYER?
OR IS THERE A DEFENSE FUND THAT HELPED HIM PAY FOR THIS.
BECAUSE I CAN SEE FROM HIS PERSPECTIVE, WRONGFULLY
CONVICTED AND HERE I AM TRYING TO GET RECOURSE OR FOR THAT AND
I HAVE TO SPEND MY OWN MONEY?
>> I BELIEVE THAT THE LAWYERS, THE LAW FIRM THAT HE USED TAKES
THAT ON.
EITHER THE JUDGMENT INCLUDES ATTORNEYS FEES ONCE EVERYTHING
IS SAID AND DONE, OR THEY WILL GET A CUT OF THAT MONEY.
I'M QUITE SURE HE DIDN'T HAVE TO PUT OUT HIS OWN MONEY.
BUT HE CERTAINLY HAD TO PUT OUT HIS OWN TIME.
HE CERTAINLY DIDN'T KNOW HOW THIS WAS GOING TO TURN OUT, AND
IT'S VERY HARD TO SUE FOR WHAT HAPPENED 30 YEARS AGO, AND A LOT
OF THE PEOPLE ARE NO LONGER WORKING, SOME PEOPLE ARE NO
LONGER ALIVE.
THE EVIDENCE IS NOT AVAILABLE.
SO THIS IS A REALLY UPHILL BATTLE.
>> AND IT WAS A LONG TIME COMING, BECAUSE CORRECT ME IF I
HAVE THIS WRONG, IN 2015 HE SUED THE CITY OF SPRINGFIELD AND FOUR
POLICE OFFICERS FOR VIOLATING HIS CIVIL RIGHTS.
A PORTION OF THAT WAS DISMISSED BY THE COURTS, THE CASE AGAINST
THE CITY.
THIS WAS THE CASE AGAINST THE COURT OFFICERS?
>> RIGHT.
THIS WAS JUST AGAINST THE OFFICERS.
THE CITY IS WHAT LIABLE FOR THE OFFICERS THAT WERE WORKING FOR
THE CITY AT THE TIME.
IT'S NOT CLEAR WHERE THIS MONEY WILL COME FROM AND HOW MUCH.
BECAUSE ACCORDING TO STATE LAW, THE CITY IS ONLY LIABLE FOR
$1 MILLION PER OFFICER, SO THAT'S A TOTAL OF 4 MILLION, NOT
27 MILLION.
I TALKED TO HIS LAWYERS WHO SAID, WELL, WE WILL FIGURE OUT
HOW TO GET THAT MONEY SOME OTHER WAY, MAYBE FROM ASSETS OF THE
OFFICERS, MAYBE WE CANAPPEAL THE LAWSUIT AGAINST THE CITY.
SO THERE'S A LOT LEGALLY THAT IS STILL GOING TO HAPPEN AS FAR AS
APPEALS.
>> IT'S NOT LIKE WHEN THE GAVEL CAME DOWN AND THE JUDGMENT FOR
THE 27 MILLION WAS DECIDED, HE WAS CUT A CHECK RIGHT THERE IN
THE COURTROOM.
>> RIGHT.
AND MARK HIMSELF SAYS HE WILL, YOU KNOW, HE DOESN'T KNOW IF
HE'S EVER GOING TO SEE ANY OF THIS MONEY.
FOR HIM THIS WAS ABOUT VINDICATION.
HE WAS SO HAPPY THAT PUBLICLY THERE WAS A STATEMENT, YOU WERE
WRONGED, AND SOMEBODY WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR YOU BEING
WRONGED.
I'M SURE HE WOULD LOVE TO SEE THE MONEY, BUT HE'S NOT COUNTING
ON IT.
>> SO WHEN YOU WERE LOOKING AT THIS, YOU SPOKE WITH SOMEONE
FROM THE PUBLIC JUSTICE ADVOCACY CLINIC AT THE GEORGE WASHINGTON
UNIVERSITY.
DO OTHER PEOPLE PURSUE WRONGFUL CONVICTION IN A SIMILAR WAY THAT
MR.
SCHAND DID?
>> AGAIN, IT VARIES FROM STATE TO STATE, ACCORDING TO WHAT
YOU'RE ALLOWED TO, ACCORDING TO STATE LAW, ACCORDING TO WHAT
YOUR PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCES ARE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S D.N.A.
TESTING, WHICH WAS NOT THE CASE WITH MARK SCHAND.
THERE'S HOW MUCH EVIDENCE YOU HAVE.
THERE'S WHETHER YOU NEED TO PROVE THAT THE POLICE OFFICERS
OR THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY OR WHO EVER WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR PUTTING
YOU IN JAIL DID SO INTENTIONALLY OR IF IT WAS A MISTAKE.
SO THERE'S DAY REAL UPHILL BATTLE, AND IN SOME CASES IT'S
NOT WORTH TO IT PEOPLE TO GO THROUGH ALL THAT TROUBLE.
ACCORDING TO THE CLINIC, AT GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY,
ONLY HALF OF ALL WRONGFULLY CONVICTED EVEN TRY TO SUE.
AND OUT OF THEM, NOT ALL OF THEM WIN.
AND THOSE WHO DO WIN, THE AVERAGE IS $300,000.
>> SO 27 MILLION-DOLLAR SETTLEMENT IN THE CASE OF
MR.
SCHAND IS FAR FAR FAR FROM THE AVERAGE?
>> YES.
IT'S NOT ABSOLUTELY UNHEARD OF.
THERE HAVE BEEN OTHER VERY LARGE SETTLEMENTS.
LIKE THE CENTRAL PARK FIVE THAT WAS 41 MILLION.
>> IN NEW YORK CITY, RIGHT.
SO WHEN THIS HAPPENS, WHEN THERE IS THAT LARGE NUMBER THAT COMES
DOWN, IS IT SEEN BY PEOPLE IN THE LEGAL COMMUNITY AS A GOOD
THING THAT MAYBE THIS WILL HAPPEN MORE OFTEN NOW, THE
WRONGFULLY CONVICTED WILL GET JUSTICE IN IN WAY, OR IS IT SEEN
AS SOMETHING THAT'S PROBLEMATIC?
>> WELL, I THINK CERTAINLY HIS OWN LAWYERS WOULD LIKE HIM TO
GET AS MUCH AS HE POSSIBLY CAN.
IF YOU GO TO THE INNOCENCE PROJECT AND THOSE WHO ARE MORE
ADVOCATES FOR THE WRONGFULLY CONVICTED, I DON'T THINK ANYONE
IS AGAINST MONETARY COMPENSATION.
BUT THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS VERY BRUTAL LEGAL
PROCESS, AND YOU DON'T KNOW HOW IT'S GOING TO TURN OUT AND MAYBE
YOU'RE GOING TO GET $27 MILLION AND MAYBE YOU'RE GOING TO GET
300,000 AND MAYBE YOU'RE GOING TO GET NOTHING, THAT DOESN'T
SEEM LIKE A GOOD SYSTEM.
THEY WANT IT TO THE BE VERY EASY ACROSS THE BOARD TO JUST GO TO
THE STATE AND SAY, ACCORDING TO STATE LAW, I AM ENTITLED TO A
CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY PER YEAR THAT I WAS INCARCERATED, AND
PLEASE DON'T MAKE ME GO THROUGH A FIVE-YEAR LAWSUIT TO GET IT.
>> SO IS THERE MOVEMENT IN MASSACHUSETTS FOR SOMETHING LIKE
THAT?
I KNOW THERE'S THE MILLION DOLLARS.
IS THAT GOING TO BE STANDARDIZED IN OTHER STATES, IS THERE
DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT?
>> THERE'S DEFINITELY DISCUSSION, THERE'S A LOT OF
ADVOCACY AROUND THAT.
BUT SOME STATES OFFER ZERO, SOME STATES OFFER $20,000 PER YEAR
INCARCERATED.
SOME STATES JUST OFFER EDUCATION.
TEXAS IS ACTUALLY ONE OF THE BEST STATES, LIKE THE MOST
GENEROUS.
I CAN'T REMEMBER EXACTLY HOW MUCH PER YEAR THEY OFFER.
BUT IT'S PLATE -- IT'S PRETTY GOOD.
SO THERE IS AN EFFORT TO STANDARDIZE THAT.
I DON'T KNOW IF MASSACHUSETTS IS GOING TO MOVE BEYOND WHAT THEY
HAVE AT THE MOMENT.
>> I CAN SEE THE WRONGFULLY CONVICTED LOOKING AT THIS AND
SEEING IT'S JUST ANOTHER LAYER OF WRONG, ANOTHER WAY IN WHICH
THEY'VE BEEN WRONGED, WHERE THEY ARE VINDICATED, THEY'RE LET OUT,
AND NOW THE STRUGGLE BEGINS ALL OVER AGAIN.
>> WELL, LIKE IN MARK'S CASE, MARK SCHAND'S CASE, HE FELT LIKE
HE HAD TO PROVE YET AGAIN THAT HE DIDN'T DO THIS CRIME, THAT HE
WAS AGAIN BEING ACCUSED OF SOMETHING BECAUSE, YOU KNOW,
IT'S A LAWSUIT.
AND HE'S JUST READY TO JUST MOVE ON AT THIS POINT.
>> I CAN SEE WHERE YOU SAID THAT MANY PEOPLE DON'T PURSUE IT,
BECAUSE THE LEGAL SYSTEM DID THEM WRONG ONE TIME, WHY WOULD
YOU WANT TO GO BACK AND ENTANGLE YOURSELF IN THAT SYSTEM AGAIN.
>> MARK TOLD ME THAT IS DREAM IS TO BE ABLE TO WALK DOWN A STREET
AND WALK INTO A GROCERY STORE AND HAVE NOBODY NO WHO HE IS.
>> SO WHETHER OR NOT SHE GETS THAT 27 MILLION, WHERE DOES IT
GO FROM HERE?
>> HIS LAWYERS SAY THERE'S LIKELY TO BE APPEALS PROCESS,
THE CITY TOLD ME THAT THEY'RE WEIGHING THEIR OPTIONS FOR
APPEAL.
BUT IF THEY DO APPEAL, THAT WILL TAKE PROBABLY ANOTHER YEAR AND A
HALF OR TWO YEARS BEFORE THE WHOLE PROCESS UNFOLDS.
AND THE AMOUNT OF MONEY COULD CHANGE, AND AGAIN THE QUESTION
OF HOW MUCH THE CITY IS LIABLE FOR, HOW MUCH THE OFFICERS ARE
ABLE TO CONTRIBUTE.
>> BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL RETIRED AT THIS POINT.
>> YES.
SO THAT PART IS VERY UP IN THE AIR.
SO AGAIN FOR MARK, HE'S JUST LOOKING AT THIS WAS A HUGE
STATEMENT THAT I WAS WRONGED AND THAT SOMEBODY WAS RESPONSIBLE
FOR ME BEING WRONGED.