As we discussed last week,
the Amazon unionization effort in
Alabama obviously didn't go
the way union advocates wanted.
But there's a lot more to the story
both about what the actual
conditions were in that area some
of the tactics used by Amazon to
try to pressure workers to
turn against the union.
And joining us now to discuss
a number of different topics is
writer and public policy attorney.
Returning to the show once again,
Malaika Jabali.
Welcome back to the damage report.
>> Hi, john.
Thanks for having me.
>> Glad to have you back on, as we
were talking about before the show,
you're actually doing similar sort
of work right now.
So there's definitely a consistent
theme to your work and
we appreciate you taking time
out to join us.
>> No problem.
>> So you actually visited
the warehouse in question.
Can you tell us a little bit about
that experience?
>> Yes,
I really was trying to capture
kind of a day in the life of what
some workers have to experience.
And I wasn't trying to,
see what were the most sensational
stories I think people know
the most egregious conduct that
Amazon workers have had to face but
what are some of the little
nuances and daily annoyances that
enter people's lives so
I was actually in Atlanta around
the last day of the vote.
So the last day was on March 29.
That was a lesson they're going
to be accepting the ballots.
And right, when you pull up there
is a officer who's at the gate.
So they've got a cop car that's
right at the gate.
There's another cop car that goes
around and patrols a parking lot.
They have private security that
comes and they check people's
license plates or just to look for
random traffic violations.
So there's always this not always
but for the day that I was there,
the afternoon that I spent there,
there was a sense of constant
surveillance.
And when I went towards
kind of where some workers were
congregating, I just wanted to ask
them, what do you think about
the status of things?
How do you feel about it?
A number of people I was surprised
were open to talking to me.
There are reports that younger
workers there are, are more
reticent about the idea of a union.
But I had people who were very
animated about saying, absolutely,
we need something done here.
And these are folks
who are like under 30, under 35.
>> Yeah.
>> So they're just like little
daily nuisances that I think people
don't necessarily think about when
it comes to some of this work.
>> Interesting.
Yeah. So look in the wake of
the vote.
Obviously it didn't go the way that
I might have preferred I can
only speak for
myself that I would have preferred.
So I've been trying to work through
what are some of the potential
influences on that is it growing up
with a lifetime of anti union
propaganda is a particular concerns
with the the union in this case is
that the working conditions aren't
as bad as they have made out to be.
So you mentioned the surveillance.
Did the workers that you speak to
were they satisfied with the way
they're treated, their scheduling,
the conditions and benefits and
all of that.
>> Of the people who opened up to
me not a single person said that
they were satisfied with that they
were content with the way things
were the most I got was It's okay.
Universally from again,
from the people who are willing to
talk, they were concerned about
the shifts.
They worked 10 hours shifts they
might get to 30 minute breaks.
And I think for some Americans,
like that's perfectly normal.
That's great.
And that should be, that should not
be considered normal activity
because the problem is,
especially if you only get.
Some people are saying even if it's
just a one hour break where
it's condensed together like
that's better than 30 minutes and
30 minutes, you can barely even go
outside of the parking lot and so
most people don't they go outside
is the Alabama heat.
68 degrees is nothing but when
you're sitting in your car that
thing heats up so it's actually
feels hot under an Alabama sun.
You're out in the air it is hot.
So you have to go to your car you
have to run the gas.
So that's even more expenses that
you have to think about.
And you can only just roll up your
windows, turn on the AC sit there
and then come right back because by
the time you get out to that large
parking lot and walk back,
that's already like 10 minutes
right there.
So they're there's barely any time
so they said even if they had
an hour like that would be
beneficial so most people talked
about that right being able to have
like a longer break and
be don't mind I'm actually at
another I'm organizing base
right now I'm in Joliet, Illinois.
And so I'm with a group of
warehouse workers.
This is their first training day.
They're learning how to organize
other workers.
If you hear noises in
the background, that's them doing
their orientation sessions.
>> No worries. >> Yeah.
Everybody I've talked to him he was
open about improving
the conditions.
>> And what about you imply that
there were some that you spoke to
that were against the immunization?
What were some of the reasons that
were given from the people
that you were able to talk to?
>> Well, I didn't It wasn't
necessarily that they were against
unionizing.
A few people that I spoke to said
they just didn't have enough
information where they might
have gotten a call but
they're when people are getting
calls in the evening like you're,
kind of winding down from work.
You don't necessarily want to hear
the spiel.
So mmy sense is that some of
it just probably took
a little bit more contact.
There's a really,
really great article,
I would suggest people read it,
called The Blowout in Bessemer,
that's the main heading, and
it's by Jane McAlevey.
It's in The Nation, and
it talks about some of these small
organizing things that
end up being big.
So door to door campaigning.
Something that she talked about is
really important.
And because of COVID people
are reluctant to, reluctant to go
out in the field but that's really
kind of what it takes.
So if you're just doing these house
calls and not necessarily going to
people's homes and
saying this is important.
It might just slip past people's
fingers, so
it's not necessarily antagonism.
Some of it could just
be apathy in a way, and
you're doing other things.
>> Yeah, yeah, no, well, I know in
the wake of the vote, even before
the vote was finalized Some of
the activists were saying they're
going to be appealing the vote.
They talked about the pressure that
was put on workers and maybe a bit
of that we got into with the sense
of surveillance as if an Amazon
facility needed you thinking about
that there might be surveillance on
top of their normal technology.
Were you able to talk to any of
the organizers?
Is it possible that the sort of
advice that you were just giving
there might be incorporated into
some sort of follow-up effort to
try to unionize later on.
>> I'm trying to get in touch with
the organizers.
I attempted to before I left out.
Of course, they're right in
the middle of a campaign, so
it was a little bit difficult to
nab them on their strategies.
But this is like ongoing
work for me.
I've been shadowing and
reporting on warehouse workers for
I would say about two years now.
I first came to Joliet the city
that I mentioned earlier,
it's in Will county which happens
to be probably the largest
Logistics center in the country.
So there's a lot
of railways that intersect here.
And because of that,
has there's like a history of doing
warehousing and
warehouses in this region.
So this is like an ongoing project
for me and
I will update you [LAUGH] When I
talk to those organizers and
see what their next steps
are because that is my next step.
>> Well, last question for
you and just, this is as you say,
this is an area that you've
worked in for a couple of years.
It's something that you obviously
you care quite a bit about.
Were you surprised at how it
turned out investment or
did you expect that they
would vote for unionization?
>> I was leaning towards this being
surprising if they did vote for
it from the detail right so work.
Propaganda is big in the south.
We've been hearing since I was
a kid that you need to be able to
attract businesses down there and
there's so much land and so Atlanta
for instance, which is only about
two hours away about maybe two to
three hours away from Birmingham.
This region attracts so
many businesses and we've had so
many fortune 500 companies because
that's what we're told
is the economic engine you have to
make it friendly for businesses.
If and if there's propaganda that
you won't have a job at all, like,
let alone a job that doesn't really
give you breaks, then that's
going to be a disincentive for
some people.
So it wasn't a big surprise to me
understanding the tradition,
even even teachers in the south.
My mom's is a school teacher I'm
in the midst of COVID like they had
difficulty wanting
to organize about not
going back to school because it's
a right to work state and
they don't have teachers unions.
>> Yeah. Yeah,
a lot of a lot of issues obviously
making it difficult down there.
Hopefully the unions
are incorporating this but,
we appreciate you.
Joining us, tell us about your
experience, depending on what you
find in your current operation that
you're on right there.
Maybe we'll talk again soon.
>> Yeah, and
I just want to shout out one of
the warehouse workers I've been who
I started talking to actually
two years ago Mark Ballantine
had a great interview and Jacobin I
recommend everybody read it.
It is they basically just quoted
him word for word and
it really gives you a sense of some
of the egregious nature of like the
anti organizing work that companies
like Amazon and other fortune 500
companies do against these workers.
>> Awesome.
Malaika Jabali.
Thank you again for joining us.
Really appreciate it.
>> Thank you, John.
Take care.
[MUSIC]