hi hi how are you very well how are you
it's lovely to meet you
it's nice to meet you thanks for coming
down oh my god it's our pleasure
well we in Canada are we in New York
we're in New York okay we are in now you
would know we're telling the truth I
didn't know if we were so nice to be
here oh it's so nice and kind of time
here among to me the trees it's so
gorgeous and yeah Michael Buble free
health carrots and credit yeah I really
love it yeah I I really love listening
to your record here thank you so much I
really enjoyed every moment of it I
listened to it I listen to what he came
out and I put it on twice yesterday when
anyone was coming down and I really feel
like I heard a couple of things
mm-hmm I heard like a deep deep sense of
longing mm-hmm in some of those songs
mm-hmm and I also heard a sheer joy and
they weren't exclusive from one another
mmm like in the moments of longing I
still heard joy because it felt like I
heard you doing what you wanted to do
right am I am i onto something um I
think so I mean that's that's kind of
what I hear when I listen to it and I
think that's what that's what I have
loved but the record so much is that I
think some of my most positive moments
have been listening to some of the
saddest songs and I think there's
moments where you know you get to some
of the like most emotional moments on
the album and to me they feel quite
uplifting especially stuff like fine
line pretty sad song and then you know I
wanted that end to kind of be very just
feels quite optimistic to me I think and
you know just yeah it feels quite like
positive and I kind of felt like the
perfect way to finish the record so yeah
I'm I'm pleased you kind of got that
from me I guess but I think I think when
you write sad songs you you can gain a
lot
I don't think you know sometimes that
it's just as simple as them being a good
outlet to kind of get something out and
it's nice sometimes to kind of wrap a
feeling up in like a little
three-and-a-half minute package and it
doesn't mean that you have to kind of
wallow in it it can be like okay and and
then you gain something from it you know
you get a song from it and you can turn
an experience that isn't necessarily
that positive into a positive one and
you can learn from it and I think that's
kind of what's exciting about music you
know just simply processing yeah hard
things yeah and yeah it's almost
therapeutic anyway yeah yeah I feel like
it's um it's difficult to be as honest
with any person as you can be like with
an instrument if you're just you know
sitting and writing with a guitar or a
piano or something and it's all the
times even if it doesn't end up being
the song just saying something out loud
can be nice to kind of get that out so
yeah I definitely find writing like
incredibly therapeutic you you reminds
me sometimes I go to sometimes I go to
therapy and I feel like all I did was
talk right and I didn't hear anything
back right and I realized that that is
the point that itself is a beautiful
thing you know yes did it feel
did it feel different than making the
first one the first solo one yeah if it
felt very different um I felt I'd say
yeah I think less pressure but more more
just that I put less pressure on myself
I think I felt like I mean first of all
it was much longer and it was a lot more
frustrating and I'd say it was probably
more difficult overall I think the
second one all the way in terms of the
actual like finishing it and everything
but I think I think at each moment when
when you get to those things where you
know you're making something that you
really care about
sometimes it's nice because as soon as
you come out the other side of the
difficult section the frustrating
section you're like it's not supposed to
be easy and I'd be it scared me a bit if
I kind of made an album was like others
is really easy and you know I'm so happy
with everything all of the time and
there's no questions to be asked about
anything I wouldn't trust it right
exactly so I'd say the main difference
was I think when I listened back to the
first album now and when I think back to
making it was I think I worried a lot
just about getting it wrong I think I
when I listened to I can hear places
were I was trying really hard not to get
it wrong and it feels a little like
playing it safe a little bit what is
getting it wrong me I don't know I mean
I think that's one of the things that I
put very much on myself because you know
there's there's not really a right and a
wrong in in music and that's what's
exciting about it but it's also really
scary because sometimes you don't you
don't have that local is this right is
this wrong it doesn't really exist now
science right we're yeah you know you
get doesn't yellowing yeah but I think
when I listen to it and I loved the
first album but I think when I listen to
it kind of feels like I was almost like
bowling with the sides up a little bit
and I feel like when it came to making
this album I took those bumpers damp and
it just felt so much more free and
joyous and I just like had a better time
and I was happier experimenting and it
felt more about like what feels good and
what makes me excited to make stuff and
there was no there wasn't really any
point until like I've never made a
record I mean like okay what are the
singles and what are the songs that
people are gonna hear and what we're
gonna put out first and we kind of
finished the album and then you go okay
okay what comes first and how do you
kind of display this album in the best
way I guess rather then okay we've got
like the single that's gonna be
and we'll do a video for this one and
now we like fill in the gaps I hope that
really likes it yeah and I mean that's
really nice for me and I'm lucky you
know that I work with people who allow
me to do that but it it kind of it just
makes the process like so much more
exciting to me but it also means that
like every song counts there's no you
know it's just about the whole thing
you can't put one out and go okay that's
tiny yeah whatever about everything else
yeah exactly
you know um one thing that was on my
mind when I was listening to the record
regarding all this and of course your
past in your in your histories it was on
my mind while I was listening to it and
I was reading about you on you know when
I was getting ready to talk to you and I
read this the Rolling Stone article
about you which was lovely and one of
the things I said was it quoted this
David Bowie thing you know never play to
the gallery oh yeah I tracked down the
clip and I watched it last night and
it's good right yeah and it's something
he says later that really actually stuck
with me and I wrote it down here he said
I think it's terribly dangerous for an
artist to fulfill other people's
expectations how have you found um I
think I mean I think it's so true I
think you're you're just I mean I wish I
could just say that the whole clip quote
and pretend it was my own I think that's
so perfect you can I think you'd get
away with it's um I just think like if
you're first of all if you're gonna make
something that you don't like if you're
just trying to please people then I
think the worst thing that can happen is
it doesn't go well and you just regret
the fact that you didn't make what you
wanted to make as well so the best thing
that can happen is it goes really well
and part of you probably still regrets
not making what you wanted to make and I
think there was a part a little bit at
the start of this album where because
the first the first album wasn't
necessarily a radio record it was part
of me where I felt like a little bit of
pressure I wanted to make like a big
album no
was it to be you know successful and
ordered it to work and I think I was I
was trying to do that for you know a
couple weeks and I just wasn't really
happy with any of the music I was making
it was like getting close sometimes but
it just felt like I was trying to force
it and and it kind of felt like oh yeah
this song you know there was a couple
songs there was one in particular that
was like a big turning point to me
because we wrote this song and everyone
was really excited about it and it was
like this feels like a really big song
and then I came to play it to someone
and I was like cringing about playing at
someone and I was like that's not how
you're supposed to feel when I could say
enjoy your music to people and then my
friend Tyler who I work with just said
you know we were talking about these
albums that I wanted to make in the
future and what they would sound like
and and he just said you just have to
make the album that you want to make
right right now and that was a big
turning point and I ended up making the
album that I wanted to make when when it
just wasn't about trying to make what
people like and I think you can make a
bad song and you can make a bad album
you can make stuff that people don't
like but they'll still they they'll
still believe in you as long as it's
authentic and I think the moment that
people go do you know I'm kind of done
with this I don't want to support us
anymore is when you're faking it and I
you can't really blame people for that
like if there was an artist I loved and
I went to a show I felt like the music
they were making wasn't what they wanted
to make it wasn't them and they didn't
really like it that much themselves you
can tell I'd probably stop going yeah
you can tell you can tell thanks for
that you could tell us somewhere else um
so I've just I just look at I can only
speak from personal experience and I can
look at songs and be like I've always
I've always made my worst music when I'm
trying the hardest you know
and when it like feels a little bit too
easy and feels a bit safe and and it's
just like oh yeah this is what people
want and I write it and I just don't
like it I just usually don't like it if
you know and it's not about you know I
don't mean to be like oh I want to make
stuff feel like it's so confusing and
you know it's just I just only really
know I think a lot of the time when
people are making music or they work in
music they think that everyone who
worked in music kind of operates on this
like higher level of listening to fans
and you know sometimes people say like
oh I don't know if people are gonna get
it and I don't know if people will
understand it and and I think ultimately
like everyone who works at music you're
just fans I come just a fan of music
gets to make some so I kind of I try and
make it from that perspective I try and
write music as a fan of music and and
that's kind of I just don't really know
how else to do it I guess I think I
think they're gonna they're gonna take
me out with a laser if I don't stop soon
but I have one more if that's how you do
coke oh yeah you sure yeah grant he was
back to that Bowie quote you know one of
the other things that he said was always
remember that the reason you started
making music was to understand more of
yourself what have you understood more
of yourself through music um I'd say I'd
say this album is will be a time of my
life that I will look back on as I quote
pivotal moment for me personally I think
probably forever I think like I just
went through like a big moment of
self-reflection I partly maybe didn't
have time to do properly before and kind
of accepting a lot of things well bye it
was busy right because you're in the bed
yeah and then you're out of the band and
it was just like a lot of stuff kind of
after each other and like yeah and I
think with this one after touring with
the first album I just felt very like
accepted
the crowd and you know I think when
you're doing shows and stuff as part of
the band people have come even with the
showers like people have come to see a
band and it never never really feels
like they're there for you because
they're not they're there to see a band
so I think when I went out and started
doing shows on my own I was kind of just
amazed that people were coming to see me
and and that felt like oh I just need to
do what I want to do and they want to
see me be myself and and they must do
something to you yeah and it's it's like
you're it's a really amazing connection
it's like a special thing that you share
with the people who come every night
because it's a-you know it's kind of one
of those things like when you actually
think about what coming to a show means
and you think about what it means when I
go to a show that you you get the ticket
and you go on you have to park and you
or you have to take the train and then
you have to go and then you have to get
home and babysit yeah it's like it's a
lot of things like it means a lot for
people to kind of take a night out to go
out to go to a show and and that's like
amazing and it's the biggest compliment
I think someone can pay you is is going
to a shelter you're playing and you know
it's because you think about everyone in
the room and not everybody stood at the
front
not everybody has like the most amazing
view that some people are at the back
and and they still come and I think
that's like a really beautiful thing and
and then yeah I guess just just like the
the process of making that album has
been so joyous for me and felt very free
and I'm lucky to work with people who
kind of create that environment for me
to be able to be honest and vulnerable
and experiment and get things wrong and
yeahit's feel like I learned a lot I
think this time the times when I was
happiest it was like some of the
happiest times of my life and the times
when I was sad or some of the lowest
times my life and I think that's kind of
what the album's all about is that kind
of fragility of emotion and how fast it
can change and you know that's why we
kind of ended up calling the album
fineliners that was just like a theme
through the whole the whole album
process so yeah I'm really proud of it
and you should be yes it's lovely and I
know we have to go I I feel like you've
always been able to insert and I mean
this artfulness into spaces that don't
always welcome it and I'm and I'm
appreciative thank you so your work on
that thank you very much Oh buddy thanks
for having me thank you very much