MARIA: Hey, David! DAVID: Hey, Maria. How's it going?
M: Good! I heard you were here, hanging out on your day off.
D: Yeah M: I was wondering if I can catch you for 21 questions.
Of course! We're just playing with some rings.
M: Awesome! So, can you tell us what is it that you exactly do.
[David laughs]
I am a Food Visualist and a Commercial Director.
M: Cool, and what got you started in such a creative industry?
I started out working in advertising, actually.
I worked as a copywriter at this agency Droga5 in New York,
and after a few years I kind of got tired of advertising.
So I wanted to step out and try something like content creation, maybe filmmaking.
I didn't quite know what I wanted to do,
but I knew it had to be something with food.
M: Cool, and tell us, who is your friend here next to you?
D: This is Riley. Sorry I haven't introduced you sooner.
Riley is a motion control operator and
rig builder and DP and all those things.
M: Wow, so a really good friend to have! [laughs]
Very good friend to have,
and he builds all these and engineers all these amazing rigs
for all the food stunts that you guys see.
M: So cool,
and so the pandemic has really affected photo and film.
How has it affected you?
So, in the beginning of my career,
I was just, kind of, a one-man shop.
You know, kind of operating and making my own things,
and, as I've grown in my career as a director,
we have 60, 80, 100 people on set
doing many different jobs and wearing a lot of these hats.
For me, it was kind of a weird thing to return back to where I started a bit,
which was making, experimenting, testing,
not being great at lighting (but trying to figure it out myself anyway),
and that was a nice return to the ethos
of how I started a bit.
But I definitely miss having the support.
M: Yeah, of course!
And so tell us, what was your first camera?
Oof...
My first camera was a Canon 5D.
M: Nice D: Yeah
And what's your go-to camera and lens now?
I love shooting on the Phantom Flex 4K.
That is... [Maria laughing]
He just bought one for his studio.
M: Nice D: So we've been playing with that a bit.
I really love the high speed capabilities of it,
and there's something magical about showing somebody an action
that feels almost suspended in time.
When you're at a thousand frames per second, things are just kind of floating.
Yeah... M: That's amazing,
and what about what camera do you use
when you go, say, to a restaurant just to capture some food?
Good old iPhone M: Oh yeah!
I thought it was in my back pocket. It wasn't. [Maria laughing]
Yeah, it's just my iPhone--
M: Awesome! --and I really like the versatility of it.
Just because, for somebody like me,
who didn't necessarily go to film school
or have all the know-how of lensing and cameras right off the bat,
the iPhone was kind of a nice thing,
just where I could shoot a quick Instagram story
or capture some cool behind the scenes on set.
M: Awesome, and so what drew you specifically to food and styling?
I think it was the opportunity.
When I first was getting into food media, food was only done two ways.
It was on one end of the spectrum, you had your top-down recipe videos
that were super functional, really hypnotic to watch
and they were really smart.
They were made in bite-sized little bits,
but for me they lacked a lot of the cinematography
and the love that you put into showing food from a different angle.
Then, on the other end of the spectrum, you had things like Chef's Table,
which were gratuitous slow-mo and and these amazing stories
but I felt like it was hard for me to connect
because Michelin star restaurants and that kind of background
isn't really how I was brought up or exposed to.
So, I wanted to come into food and bring a little bit of the realism back to it
with practical effects and storytelling and narrative,
and not just shoot food on the table top,
but build a world around that food.
M: Cool, yeah, that's amazing.
And it's kind of interesting, kind of, looking into
your Instagram or just like your portfolio
it's interesting to see the evolution of what you've become.
You started out just taking photos out and about,
and now you've turned it into such a big production.
Can you tell me about this path? [laughs]
So, I started as a photographer.
I just wanted to learn composition and lighting,
and a lot of food photographers have to style their own stuff.
So then, I started getting into food styling
and learning the intricacies of
how to make a cheese pull with Elmer's glue,
or do an Oreo ad with Elmer's or something.
And I learned that photos were just kind of...
They were fun, but I wanted to get into more of the motion.
I wanted to get into slow motion.
I wanted to get into rigging and practical effects.
And when I saw what was capable...
Like, I didn't even know there were food stunt coordinators and food stunt engineers,
and that whole world just opened up to me,
and it started to be where I wanted to call my focus.
M: That's so cool, and so speaking of your evolution,
you did start kind of on Instagram shooting photos,
and now you've gone a little bit more commercial and Hollywood,
but, um, D: [laughs] Thank you
M: you've also still been recently posting a lot of your stuff on Tik Tok
and on your social media channels,
and you have been growing so rapidly.
How has social media really played a part in your career?
Social media has been one of those things that has been such an unlock,
and it was one of those things that I wasn't quite sure--
I never did it intentionally when I first joined Instagram or Tik Tok.
It was something where I just wanted to be prolific,
and this would hold me accountable because I'd have to post some stuff.
And the pressure to post is real after a while. [Maria laughs]
But I do think that as a freelancer and as an independent artist,
awareness is our greatest tool,
and the more you can stay top of mind with someone
who is a CMO at a brand or an EP at a production company
or an Executive Creative Director at an agency,
the better off you are,
and to be known for a very specific thing--
I think a lot of times that there's so many--
there's such an attempt to be on this, this, this, this, this, this,
but if you're prolific and you're known for a signature
and doing one thing, yeah you'll lose out on some jobs,
but you'll be the first one people think of when it comes to that perfect brief for you.
M: Perfect...
This week is actually the last week of Asian American Heritage Month,
and I wanted to know
how do you feel that the industry in photo, video, commercial, everything
could be doing better and being a little bit more inclusive.
For sure. I think that, when I look at casting for example,
there's a big request from clients now to cast People of Color,
which I think is really cool.
It shows representation for communities
and people who may not be shown as much in Hollywood or on screen.
But, from the production side,
I think it's so much, we think about race a lot,
and I think that it's not so much about color, it's about culture,
and, yes, someone could tell the story of a specific culture
being any race that they are,
and if you're a talented director or a talented writer,
you'll be able to create something,
but to get the nuances and the respect for the culture
and the things that, when other people in that culture watch that story,
they identify with,
I think can be missed,
but for me personally, I think, you know, I haven't been in the industry
a wildly long time--Oh! It's my dog, Patrick!
[Maria laughing] D: Patrick, we're doing an interview.
Um...
He's such a camera hog [Maria continues laughing]
You know, as an Asian man in Hollywood or in filmmaking,
I think that, typically,
Asians can sometimes be looked at as passive or not leaders
and I've really tried to make it a big part of my ethos
to champion bringing other people on
who have that same kind of, uh, I guess, plight,
and disproving those stereotypes.
M: So, what projects do you have coming up?
I am shooting the second season of Food Films,
which was an original series. That's how I got into directing:
I made these short films that were basically recipe videos
that were inspired by the works of my favorite directors.
And we're digging into our second season,
and when I made the first season,
I didn't even know what a gaffer was.
So, I think the second season should be quite interesting.
We're doing some works by Christopher Nolan,
Darren Aronofsky, George Miller and... one more.
I'm sure we'll pick the other one later, yeah. [Maria laughs]
M: Cool! Alright, so, switching it up a little bit
I want to get some tips for somebody who wants to get into to creating content
around food and maybe even some styling,
but I'm seeing this balcony,
and we gotta get out there! [David laughs]
[Maria laughs]
D: Let's go shoot some Instagram photos! M: Awesome
M: Okay, now that we're out in this beautiful balcony with this crazy view,
[both laugh]
Now, can you tell me a couple tips for somebody just starting out.
I have three tips.
The first tip is to be prolific.
It's really really important in the beginning to get volume.
Don't worry about things being technically correct
or the lighting being perfect.
You just need to get the speed.
You need to get the habit of just
"what are the headaches that I'm going to run into when I'm shooting food?"
The second thing is to shadow a food stylist,
whether you want to be a food stylist or not.
As a director, as a tabletop director,
I need to be able to coach the talent just as well as I can coach my food.
I need to be able to coach a food stylist just as well as I can direct talent.
Often, you know, the chicken sandwich is the hero of our spot,
or, like, the main person on camera,
so, sometimes, to be able to speak the language of a food stylist
just makes the shorthand better on set
and it lets you articulate more what you're thinking in your brain
for how you want the food to look.
The second thing would be to shadow a food stylist.
It's really important,
so make sure you get that time in with them and learn little tricks.
There's so much available on the internet, I would say.
And then, the third thing is to emulate the style of people, of work that inspires you,
but go a step further than that.
Look at the work that inspired the work that inspires you.
Like, if your favorite director watches these films,
go watch those films,
go read interviews, listen to podcasts
and hear from that person what it--
Like, reverse engineer the creative.
I love doing that. I think reverse engineering method,
process, concept is super important.
It just helps you understand that better
and gets your brain thinking in the way that your heroes do.
M: Awesome, and coolest shoot you've been on?
Around two months ago, I shot a commercial for Voss Water,
and they came to me because they stylistically wanted to move away
from what they've been doing and create these worlds around the bottle
and create these five different worlds for every one of their bottles.
This sounds really nerdy, but I love that challenge. [Maria laughs]
I love the challenge in making branded stuff feel cool.
So, we did everything from shooting completely submerged
underwater in a fish tank that was,
I don't know, many many gallons that Riley created.
We had a bunch of rigging that had explosions of iridescent powder,
practical sunlight rises in the desert.
And doing those five different set builds was such an experience,
and I like to bring that level of craft every shoot, so.
I always geek out whenever we get to do a lot of rigging or set design.
M: Yeah, and then what was the most challenging shoot?
This one's an easy one. [Maria laughs]
The most challenging shoot that I ever did was two years ago for McDonald's.
It was a global McDonald's commercial in Milan,
and there was a bit of a language barrier.
My Italian isn't so great,
but basically our motion control operator
Didn't know how to operate the robot,
and then for me to try and troubleshoot that with Google Translate,
and Italian and my terrible accent,
It was just a mess,
but we got the shot done. The whole thing was in one take.
We got the shot done. It was awesome.
it was just really crazy to go through.
But I look at that like on every shoot,
there's always some kind of calamity or thing that doesn't go to plan,
and it's just the nature of shooting, especially with tabletop.
When you're doing precise camera moves
and intricate rigging, things will come up,
and I always say that, if you have a room full of smart people,
you'll figure it out. [Maria chuckles]
M: It's true!
M: Favorite food to eat.
That is... That is a tie.
It's between sushi and tacos. I love them both equally.
M: What about a sushi taco?
[Maria laughing] That's crazy!
[Maria's laughing continues] You might have a food idea there.
M: Favorite food to capture
Ooh...
I think my favorite food to capture is probably anything with cheese.
My clients love cheese pulls--
M: Yeah --and whether it's Carl's Jr. or DiGiorno
they're always wanting an epic, over-the-moon
bungee-jump-stretch cheese pull.
M: Craziest prop you've ever made.
The craziest prop I ever made
wasn't so much that it was crazy from an engineering perspective,
but it was for a strawberry,
and we had to make the strawberry spin and have chocolate--
M: Wow
--kind of ricochet off of the strawberry.
So we had all these methods of, like, "do we do invisible line?"
"Do we do it in VFX, all post?"
And we're like, "No, I want to do it practically."
and we just ended up going with a super simple solution,
which was to drill a power drill through the bottom of the table,
dip the strawberry in chocolate,
put it on top of the drill,
and then let it spin.
and we recorded it at a thousand fps.
M: Wow! Fire or water?
Well... per the fire permits,
we can't have fire without water.
[Maria laughs] So, I would say...
Oh it's so hard!
For subtlety, I like water.
there's so much beauty that you can do with it as a medium,
whether it's small tiny ripples
or gorgeous light splashes. Um...
Fire is awesome for the explosive things. We build a lot of fake grills.
It's a tie. I can't answer. [Maria laughing]
I love them all dearly.
M: And, if you weren't a food content creator, what would you be?
You mean what place would accept me for employment? [chuckles]
Probably very very little. [Mary laughs]
I would probably still be working in advertising.
I think at the heart of it, I still love being an advertising creative.
I worked as a creative director for seven years,
and I just love the energy of being in the room with our clients
and creating, writing an awesome commercial for them
that they then buy and run through testing and make less cool, but...
Yeah, I think I would still work in advertising.
It still allows me to be creative and get paid for it, so.
M: Cool, and what's the best piece of advice you've ever received?
The best piece of advice I ever received was--
this isn't very eloquent, but--
write your signature across every piece of work that you do.
And I think that's a tricky thing as a commercial artist,
just because we're there for the brands.
But at the same time, we're there because we're being brought on to consult
so we can make this branded film,
this commercial, this social post go viral.
We want people to connect with it
and to have some kind of love for or affinity towards the piece
And, um...
It can be hard sometimes to tell people that
what they want isn't the best iteration of that idea,
and I think that, the more time you have in the industry,
the more tactful you become at it, but it's a really important thing to do.
When you're shooting commercial after commercial it's very easy to
do every shot from the same angle
or to get stuck in the rut of just making a commercial,
but I think the more you can maintain that signature across everything that you do,
the more recognizable your work becomes and more people know about you.
M: Absolutely and if there were to be a movie about your life,
who would play you?
Who would play me in a movie of my life...
He's better looking than me, but I'd want Steven Yeun to play me.
M: Nice, and--
I also respect him a lot because he's one of those multi-disciplined actors,
who writes, produces, acts, models and does all those things.
I love that he doesn't limit himself to being one thing,
but he's very known for one thing.
M: Absolutely, and last question, who should we interview next?
I have two people you should interview. M: Okay!
The first one is a DP named Colin Watkinson.
He's also a director. We've shot a couple commercials together.
I love working with him because...
He's been in the industry and is such a seasoned DP.
The way he lights things, it's like he's an artist with light,
and I think that I would love to know his process
because I'm scared of how his brain and how it works [Maria laughs]
and how it works so quickly.
And the other person you should interview is Riley.
Riley has a very interesting brain as well.
He just started a production company, and, um...
If you just went into his little shop of horrors, [Maria laughs]
I'm sure you'd love to see what's inside.
M: Awesome! Alright, well, thank you so much for your time,
and I'll let you get back to it,
and thanks for having us!
Alright, I'm gonna go take a nap on the hammock.
M: [laughs] Awesome!