- And I quote here directly from the e-mail.
"To create a quick and devastating published
takedown of three prominent epidemiologists from Harvard,
Oxford, and Stanford."
Apparently there's a lot of fringe epidemiologists
at Harvard, Oxford, and Stanford.
And you quote in the e-mail that they --
or from Doctor Collins,
and you agree that they are fringe.
And immediately there's this takedown effort.
A published takedown, though, doesn't exactly conjure up
the image of a dispassionate scientist.
Instead of engaging them on the merits,
you and Doctor Collins sought to smear them as fringe
and take them down.
And not in journals, in lay press.
This is not only antithetical to the scientific method.
It's the epitome of cheap politics,
and it's reprehensible, Doctor Fauci.
Do you really think it's appropriate
to use your $420,000 salary
to attack scientists that disagree with you?
- The e-mail you're referring to was an e-mail
of Doctor Collins to me.
If you look at the e-mail -- -That you responded to
and hurried up and said, "I can do it, I can do it.
We got something in 'Wired' magazine."
- No, no, no.
I think, in usual fashion, Senator,
you are distorting everything about me.
- Did you ever object to Doctor Collins'
characterization of them as fringe?
Did you write back to Doctor Collins and say,
"No, they're not fringe. They're esteemed scientists,
and it would be beneath me to do that"?
- I did not -- -You responded to him
that you would do it, and you immediately got
an article in "Wired" and you sent it back to him
and said, "Hey, look, I've got them.
I nailed them in 'Wired,' of all scientific publications."
- That's not what went on. There you go again.
You just do the same thing every hearing.
- That was your response.
And this wasn't the only time,
so your desire to take down people --
-You're absolutely incorrect, as usual, Senator.
You are incorrect, almost everything you said.
- Well, no, you deny, you deny,
but the e-mails tell the truth of this.
- No. - This wasn't the only time.
Your desire to take down those who disagree with you
didn't stop with Harvard, Oxford, and Stanford.
You conspired with Peter Daszak,
who you communicated with privately,
and other members of the scientific community
that wrote opinion pieces for "Nature."
Five of them signed a paper for "Nature," an opinion piece.
Seventeen signed a paper that called it conspiracy theory,
the idea that the virus could have originated in the lab.
Do you think words like "conspiracy theory"
should be in scientific paper?
- Senator, I never used that word when I was referring to it.
You're distorting virtually everything.
- Did you communicate with the five scientists
who wrote the opinion piece in "Nature"
where they were describing,
"Oh, there's no way this could have come from the lab"?
- That was not me. What I did --
-Did you talk with any of those scientists privately?
- You keep distorting the truth.
It's stunning how you do that.
- Did you talk to any of the scientists privately --
-Yes. - You did.
What were they telling you privately?
- Well, let me explain.
You're going back to that original discussion
when I brought together a group of people
to look at every possibility with an open mind.
So not only are you distorting it,
you're completely turning it around, as you usually do.
- Were most of the scientists that came to you privately,
did they come to you privately and say,
"No way this came from the lab"?
Or was their initial impression --
Doctor Garry and others that were involved --
was their initial impression actually that
it looked very suspicious for a virus that came from a lab?
- Senator, we are here at a committee
to look at a virus now that has killed almost 900,000 people.
And the purpose of the committee was to try
and get things out how we can help to get the American public.
And you keep coming back to personal attacks on me
that have absolutely no relevance to reality.
- Do you think anybody has had more influence
over our response to this than you have?
- Madam Chair, can I --
-Do you think it's a great success what's happened so far?
Do you think the lockdowns were good for our kids?
Do you think we slowed down the death rate?
More people have died now under President Biden
than did under President Trump.
You are the one responsible.
You are the architect.
You are the lead architect
for the response from the government,
and now 800,000 people have died.
- Right. - Do you think it's a winning
success, what you've advocated for government?
- Senator, first of all,
if you look at everything that I said,
you accuse me of, in a monolithic way,
telling people what they need to do.
Everything that I've said has been in support
of the CDC guidelines --
wear a mask, get boosted, get vaccinated.
- And you've advocated to make it coercive.
- Take a look at everything I've said --
-You've advocated that it be done by mandate.
You've advocated that your infallible opinion
be dictated by law.
- So, again, Madam Chair,
I would like just a couple of minutes
because this happens all the time.
You personally attack me,
and with absolutely not a shred of evidence of anything you say.
So I would like to make something clear
to the committee.
He's doing this for political reasons.
What you need to do is --
he's said in front of this committee --
-You think your takedown of three prominent
epidemiologists was not political?
That was my question. - You don't want me to finish
because you know what I'm going to say.
- Senator, we will -- -Were you political in taking
down these three prominent epidemiologists?
- Senator Paul, if you would please,
I'm going to allow Doctor Fauci to respond.
We have a number of senators who would like to ask questions,
and I would like him to be able to respond.
Please do.
- So, the last time we had a committee, or the time before,
he was accusing me of being responsible for the death of 4
to 5 million people, which is really irresponsible.
And I said, "Why is he doing that?"
There are two reasons why that's really bad.
The first is, it distracts from what we're all trying
to do here today,
is get our arms around the epidemic
and the pandemic that we're dealing with,
not something imaginary.
Number two, what happens when he gets out
and accuses me of things
that are completely untrue is that all of a sudden,
that kindles the crazies out there,
and I have threats upon my life,
harassment of my family and my children
with obscene phone calls because people are lying about me.
Now, I guess you could say, "Well, that's the way it goes."
I can take the hit.
Well, it makes a difference, because as some of you may know,
just about three or four weeks ago on December 21st,
a person was arrested who was on their way
from Sacramento to Washington, DC, at a speed stop in Iowa.
And the police asked him where he was going,
and he was going to Washington, DC, to kill Doctor Fauci.
And they found in his car an AR-15
and multiple magazines of ammunition,
because he thinks that maybe I'm killing people.
So I ask myself, "Why would Senator want to do this?"
So go to Rand Paul website, and you see "Fire Doctor Fauci"
with a little box that says, "Contribute here."
You can do $5, $10, $20, $100.
So you are making a catastrophic epidemic
for your political gain.