>> WELCOME BACK. LET’S STAY WITH THE WAY DETROIT
IS GROWING AND DEVELOPING AND AT
WHOSE EXPENSE IT MIGHT COME.
WITH OUR ROUND TABLE, GOOD TO
HAVE WITH US CHAD LIVENGOOD FROM
CRAZED DETROIT BUSINESS.
GET THAT IN THE RIGHT ORDER.
DENNIS ARCHER, JR., AND A
DOWNTOWN BUSINESS OWNER I’LL
ALSO POINT OUT.
PORTIA
PORTIA PORTIA FOCUS HOPE AND NOLAN
FINLEY.
FINLEY. CHAD, YOU’VE BEEN WRITING A LOT
ABOUT WHAT’S GOING ON IN
DOWNTOWN DEVELOPMENT NOW AND WE
CAN START TO STRETCH THIS
CONVERSATION OUT A LITTLE BIT
FROM EASTERN MARKET, BUT THE
WORRIES AROUND THE WAY THAT THIS
HAPPENS, NOBODY EXPECTS SUCCESS
TO NOT BE PRETTY EXPENSIVE FOR
THOSE WHO HAVE ALREADY BEEN IN
PLACE, BUT WHAT ARE YOU HEARING
ABOUT THE WORRIES ABOUT THE WAY
DETROIT’S GROWING PAINS ARE
STARTING TO BE FELT?
>> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT IT AND
TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW IS THIS
COMEBACK AFFECTING ME?
HOW IS IT SPREADING?
WHO IS REALLY GETTING IMPACT ON
IT, AND ALONG THE WAY, WE’RE
SEEING, THERE’S SOME VICTIMS TO
THIS.
THIS. I MEAN, NOT ALL--
NOT ALL BOATS ARE RISING.
AND SOME BOATS ARE JUST GETTING
SUNK, LIKE WHAT’S GOING ON WITH
RUSSELL STREET DELI.
AND SO, THIS IS SORT OF NATURAL
PROGRESSION.
PROGRESSION. I MEAN, THIS HAS HAPPENED IN
OTHER CITIES, WHERE YOU HAVE
DOWNTRODDEN AREA THAT’S GOTTEN
REVITALIZED AND NEW BUSINESSES
AND NEW CLIENTELE, AND NEW
RESIDENTS MOVE IN, AND YOU KNOW,
THINGS AND ATTITUDES CHANGE.
>> DEVIN: DENNIS, PEOPLE LIKE TO
SAY, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE A LOT
OF LOADED WORDS IN THIS LIKE
GENTRIFICATION, BUT REALLY, WHAT
CHAD IS DESCRIBING IS OF COURSE,
WHEN SOME PLACE STARTS TO YOU
CAN IS SEED IT GETS MORE EXPENSE
STIFF TO DO BUSINESS THERE.
YOU CAN DO THINGS LIKE THE MAYOR
TRIED TO DO WITH KEEPING SAY 20%
SET ASIDE FOR LOW INCOME,
AFFORDABLE HOUSING, BUT SOME
PEOPLE SAY LOOK, GROW UP, THIS
IS WHAT HAPPENS IN A SUCCESSFUL
CITY.
CITY. WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?
>> WELL, I DISAGREE WITH THAT
STATEMENT TO GROW UP.
I THINK THAT CHANGE IS
INEVITABLE, BUT HOW ONE GOES
ABOUT INSTITUTING CHANGE, YOU
CAN GO DOWN A COUPLE OF
DIFFERENT PATHS.
DIFFERENT PATHS. THIS IS NOT EXPANDING IN THE
EARLY TIMES IN THE OUT WEST TO
BARREN LAND.
BARREN LAND. THERE ARE 6 OR 7,000 DETROIT
EAST WHO HAVE BEEN HERE THROUGH
THICK AND THIN.
AND TO THINK THEY CAN COME IN
AND WITHOUT THE STICK TOO ITNESS
FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN HERE
FOR DECADES IS NOT THE RIGHT
APPROACH.
APPROACH. >> DEVIN: YOU FOUND YOURSELF IN
YOUR OWN ARGUMENT OF WITH WITH
PARADISE VALLEY BUSINESS.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> ABSOLUTELY. SO WHAT WE LOOKED AT, WHAT IS
THE RIGHT APPROACH TO TAKE FOR
THE PEOPLE THAT ARE AFFECTED AND
SO, YOU KNOW, BOTH THERE, WHERE
WE HAVE SAID, HEY, YOU CAN STAY,
TO THE PEOPLE PAYING ON TIME,
WE’RE GOING TO MAKE
IMPROVEMENTS, WE ARE GOING TO
HONOR YOUR LEASE THROUGH THE END
OF YOUR LEASE, BUT AT THE END OF
THAT LEASE WE MAY HAVE TO
RENEGOTIATE.
RENEGOTIATE. YOU’RE ENTITLED TO STAY UNTIL
YOUR LEASE IS UP.
DEVIN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT, WE
COMPLAIN ABOUT THE ROADS BEING
DAMAGED, RIGHT?
DAMAGED, RIGHT? WE’RE GOING TO FIX THE DAMN
ROADS, BUT THEN WE COMPLAIN
ABOUT THE ORANGE BARRELS.
DAN CARMODY MENTIONED IN THE
SEGMENT PRIOR, HE TALKS ABOUT
PEOPLE WANTING EASTERN MARKET TO
STAY THE SAME, BUT THEY WANT IT
TO BE BETTER.
>> DEVIN: THAT’S GREAT TAKE.
>> YOU CAN’T DO BOTH EASILY.
IT TAKES A LOT OF, YOU KNOW,
ADDRESS BY ADDRESS, STORE FRONT
BY STORE FRONT.
>> DEVIN: IT ALSO, PORTIA, TAKES
A FAIR AMOUNT OF FINESSE TO HELP
CONTROL THE MESSAGE AND THE
MANAGEMENT OF IT.
I MENTIONED SANFORD NELSON
DIDN’T WANT TO COME ON.
WE’VE INVITED CHRIS ILITCH TO
COME ON AND TALK ABOUT THIS WITH
DETROIT AND I’M GOING TO GET TO
WITH NOLAN IN A SECOND AND SOME
OF THE MESSAGES AREN’T MANAGED
ALL THAT WELL.
>> THAT’S, I THINK, A HUGE PART
OF IT.
OF IT. I THINK THAT IN MANY WAYS, WELL,
FIRST OFF, I THINK WE HAVE TO BE
MORE INTENTIONAL ABOUT MAKING
SURE THAT PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN
HERE AND DOING BUSINESS HERE
KNOW THAT THEY’RE STILL WELCOME
HERE AND THEY HAVE A PLACE HERE.
SORT OF THIS IDEA THAT THERE
WERE NEW PEOPLE COMING IN AND WE
FORGOT THAT THERE WERE PEOPLE
HERE.
HERE. I THINK I’VE SAID THIS BEFORE
HERE, THAT YOU, KNOW, THERE HAVE
BEEN PEOPLE HERE WHO WERE HERE
BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO BE HERE,
NOT BECAUSE THEY CAN’T DO NIS
ANYPLACE ELSE.
ANYPLACE ELSE. THEY WANTED TO BE IN DETROIT AND
THEY WANT TO BE SUCCESSFUL AND
WANT TO STAY.
THERE’S THAT PART AND THE OTHER
PART IS ABSOLUTELY THE MESSAGING
BEHIND IT.
BEHIND IT. A WAY IN WHICH YOU APPROACH THE
CHANGE THAT’S GOING TO HAPPEN AS
THE CITY PROGRESSES THERE’S
GOING TO BE CHANGE, BUT THERE’S
A MESSAGE HOW YOU RESPOND TO
THAT AND HOW YOU GET AT WHAT
YOU’RE TRYING TO DO AND I THINK
THE IDEA THAT, YOU KNOW,
CERTAINLY, WITH THE DISTRICT
DETROIT PROGRAM, OR
NEIGHBORHOOD, IT’S THE SENSE
THAT WE WERE TOLD WE WERE
GETTING ONE THING AND WE HAVEN’T
GOTTEN THAT AND WE’LL GET TO
TELLING WHAT WE’RE GOING TO DO
NEXT WHEN WE FEEL LIKE IT AND
IT’S NOT REALLY COMING OUT THERE
AND SAYING, LOOK, THERE HAVE
BEEN DELAYS AND WE’LL DO WHAT
WE’VE TOLD YOU IN THE BEGINNING.
>> NOLAN, YOU HAVE BEEN REALLY
BEEN TAKING THE ILITCHES TO TASK
WITH A COUPLE OF COLUMNS LATELY
WHAT ISN’T HAPPENING IN YOUR
VIEW AND YET, THEY JUST RECEIVED
ANOTHER--
ANOTHER-- UNCONSCIONABLE.
UNCONSCIONABLE. >> BIG PILE OF--
>> $74 MILLION.
>> DEVIN: $74 MILLION AS PART OF
THE AGREEMENT BECAUSE OF WHAT
THEY HAVE SPENT.
SO, I GUESS THE ILITCHES WOULD
SAY, LOOK, WE WERE DUE THAT
MONEY BECAUSE WE HAVE SPENT A
LOT OF MONEY THERE AND THAT
THESE PROTESTATIONS ARE EITHER,
AT THE VERY LEAST, PREMATURE.
>> I THINK IT’S TIME TO STOP
TALKING WHAT THE ILITCHES HAVE
DONE FOR THE CITY AND TO THE
CITY.
CITY. WHAT THEY’RE DOING IS BREAKING
PROMISES.
PROMISES. WE WENT OUT THERE WHEN THEY
UNVEILED THIS GRAND PLAN FOR
DISTRICT DETROIT.
DISTRICT DETROIT. FIVE NEIGHBORHOODS
FIVE NEIGHBORHOODS TRANSFORMATIONAL.
TRANSFORMATIONAL. CONNECT DOWNTOWN DETROIT TO
MIDTOWN AND FILL UP THE AREA
THAT’S BEEN BLIGHTED.
AND THEY’RE NOT DONE THAT.
THEY’RE BREAKING PROMISES AND WE
KEEP REWARDING THEM FOR THAT.
I THINK THAT THE MAYOR SHOULD BE
CALLING THEM OUT.
I THINK THE CITY SHOULD BE
LOOKING AT ALL OF THIS PROPERTY
THAT THEY HELPED ASSEMBLE.
THEY SOLD THEM SOME OF THIS
PROPER AT A DOLLAR A LOT.
THEY ISSUED DEMOLITION PERMITS
IN THE EXPECTATION WE WOULD GET
THIS GRAND DISTRICT AND WE’RE
NOT GETTING IT.
>> DEVIN: WHO’S RESPONSIBLE
THEN, THE ILITCHES OR KEVIN ORR
AS EMERGENCY MANAGER WHO CRAFTED
THE DEAL?
THE DEAL? >> BOTH.
>> BOTH. >> BUT THE ILITCHES PROMISED
SOMETHING THEY’RE NOT
DELIVERING.
DELIVERING. WHAT WE GAVE YOU $200 MILLION IN
DEVELOPMENT.
DEVELOPMENT. THEY DID NOT BUILD THE DISTRICT
AND THEY ARE NOT BUILDING THE
DISTRICT.
DISTRICT. AND FOR THE LOOK OF THE PARKING
LOTS FOR JOE LOUIS ARENA AND--
>> LCA.
>> LCA. >> BEHIND THE TIMES.
I THINK THEY SHOULD BE HELD
ACCOUNTABLE.
ACCOUNTABLE. >> DEVIN: GO AHEAD.
>> WE MENTIONED COMMUNICATION
EARLIER AND I THINK IN TALKING
ABOUT EASTERN MARKET, AND I JUST
THINK, LOOK, BEING SOMEONE WHO
IS INVOLVED IN DEVELOPMENT,
DELAYS DO HAPPEN, YOU KNOW,
CONSTRUCTION COSTS SKYROCKETED
30% IN THE PAST 18 MONTHS, THERE
COULD BE A RATIONAL AS TO WHY
THEY’RE BEHIND IN THEIR
DEVELOPMENT PLANS.
DEVELOPMENT PLANS. BUT WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO HEAR
ABOUT IT FROM THEIR MOUTHS.
MY ONLY ISSUE WITH THEM, I DON’T
KNOW ALL THE FACTS.
>> THEY APPARENTLY DID LOOSE
THEIR PARTNER THAT WAS GOING TO
BE A PART OF A LOT OF THIS
NEIGHBORHOOD CONSTRUCTION, BUT,
CHAD, AS I MENTIONED A COUPLE OF
WEEKS AGO, THIS IS REALLY A
PROBLEM WITH EXPECTATION
MANAGEMENT.
MANAGEMENT. SHOW ME THE STEAK I DON’T EAT.
>> AND SOME OF THAT LOSING
PARTNERS IS THEIR OWN PROBLEM,
ACCORDING TO REPORTING FROM MY
COLLEAGUES ON BILL SHEA AND
KIRK, THAT THERE ARE REAL ESTATE
DEVELOPERS AND RESIDENTIAL REAL
ESTATE DEVELOPERS DECIDED WE
DON’T WANT TO WORK WITH THE
ILITCHES.
ILITCHES. THEY HAVE A REPUTATION OF BEING
DIFFICULT TO WORK WITH FOR SOME
PEOPLE IN TOWN.
THEY’VE HAD AN INCOMPLETE FACADE
ON THEIR HEADQUARTERS BUILDING
RIGHT ON WOODWARD AVENUE WITH
BLACKBOARD OVER THE TOP WINDOW
FOR A YEAR.
AND CAN’T GET AN ANSWER OUT OF
THEM.
THEM. THERE’S PEOPLE IN THERE WORKING
AND IT’S JUST, IT’S KIND OF A
STRANGE THING.
STRANGE THING. THIS IS THE PIZZA SLICE SHAPED
GLASS.
GLASS. IT’S NEAT AND UNIQUE, BUT NO ONE
CAN GET AN ANSWER OUT OF WHY
THAT’S TAKING SO LONG OR WHAT’S
WRONG, IS THERE SOME KIND OF
DESIGN DEFECT?
DESIGN DEFECT? I MEAN, THESE ARE THE KIND OF
THINGS THAT--
THINGS THAT-- NOBODY AT CITY HALL IS ACTUALLY
POLICING THIS AS FAR AS WE CAN
TELL.
TELL. >> DEVIN, THEY’RE PROPERTY
HARDERS, THEY OWN --
HOARDERS, THEY OWN HUNDREDS OF
LOTS.
LOTS. LOOK AT BED ROCK, THE ROXBURY
GROUP.
GROUP. THEY BUY A BUILDING, CONSTRUCT
THE BUILDING AND PUT IT BACK IN
USE.
USE. >> THE ILITCHES BUY PROPERTY OR
A BUILDING THERE IT SITS FOR
DECADES.
DECADES. >> DEVIN: IN THEIR DEFENSE, THEY
SAY WE HAVE TO AMASS MUCH MORE
PROPERTY TO TRY TO CREATE A
STADIUM RATHER THAN TO BUILD A
HOTEL.
HOTEL. >> THIS GOES BACK TO 1987
THEY’VE BEEN AMASSING THIS
PROPERTY AND SITTING ON IT.
WHO ELSE IS DOING THAT?
>> AND PORTIA, TO YOUR POINT
EARLIER, IT WOULD BE ONE THING
IF WE CAN’T BREAK THROUGH A
BOARDROOM OF A PRIVATE ENTITY
WHO DOESN’T REALLY OWE US
NECESSARILY ANSWERS, BUT WHEN
YOU TAKE MORE THAN $300 MILLION
IN PUBLIC FINANCING, I’M SORRY,
MORE THAN $400 MILLION IN
PRIVATE FINANCING, YOU PROBABLY
OWE SOMEBODY--
OWE SOMEBODY-- MENTS YOU OWE ANSWERS.
ABSOLUTELY.
ABSOLUTELY. YOU CAN’T JUST STONEWALL PEOPLE
AND TELL THEM OH, WELL.
AND CERTAINLY I WAS PART OF THE
GROUP THAT SAW THOSE GRANDIOSE
PLANS AND SO, TO DRIVE BY THERE
AND SEE THIS, YOU KNOW,
BEAUTIFUL ARENA AND NOT SEE
ANYTHING ELSE AROUND THERE, NO
STORES, NO RETAIL, NO
RESIDENTIAL, NOT EVEN BROKEN
GROUND.
GROUND. >> DEVIN: THE NEIGHBORHOODS HAD
BEEN GIVEN NAMES.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> ABSOLUTELY. AND WHAT’S INTERESTING, THERE
WERE PEOPLE WHO SAID THIS ALL
ALONG, PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE DID
NOT WANT IT SELL.
THEY WERE ADAMANT THIS IS NOT
GOING TO HAPPEN.
THEY ARE NOT GOING TO PRODUCE
AND SOME WERE HOLDING OUT FOR
MORE MONEY, BUT SOME KNEW THEY
HAD THEIR EXPERIENCES AND I
DON’T WANT TO GO ANYWHERE AND
PEOPLE SAID YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT
YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT WE’RE DOING
IT THEY’RE GOING TO BE GREAT
THIS TIME.
THIS TIME. THEY’RE NOT.
THEY’RE NOT. >> DEVIN: I’M WONDERING NOW
WHERE ALL OF THIS LEADS BECAUSE
MY HUNCH IS, WITH FORD SETTING
UP SHOP IN A MAJOR WAY IN
CORKTOWN.
CORKTOWN. IN FACT, WE’RE WATCHING WHAT’S
HAPPENING WITH PROPERTY VALUES
IN CORKTOWN WE’LL HAVE A WHOLE
OTHER SECTION AWAY FROM DOWNTOWN
THAT’S GOING TO NEED MANAGING
AND A LOT OF PEOPLE MIGHT FIND
THEMSELVES ON THE SQUEEZE.
>> WELL, I THINK YOU’VE SEEN
THIS HAPPENING IN CORKTOWN
ALREADY.
ALREADY. THIS HAS BEEN HAPPENING FOR
YEARS IN CORKTOWN.
YOU KNOW, IF YOU FOLLOW THE BELL
CURVE AND HAVE THE EARLY
ADOPTERS AND INFLUENCERS COME IN
AND EMPTY NESTERS FROM THE
SUBURBS COMING TO MOVE TO
CORKTOWN.
CORKTOWN. AND THE RENTS ARE ALREADY LIKE
IN BROOKLYN.
IN BROOKLYN. IT’S HAPPENING.
IT’S HAPPENING. WITH FORD DROPPING A SIGNIFICANT
PRESENCE THERE, IT’S JUST GOING
TO GET WORSE, BUT TO ME THAT
PRESENTS AN OPPORTUNITY.
THERE ARE DEVELOPERS AND
BUILDERS WHO WANT TO GO TO THE
SOUTHWEST FOR PEOPLE TO GET
PRICED OUT OF THERE,S THAT’S AN
OPPORTUNITY FOR YOUNG
ENTREPRENEURS OR ENTREPRENEURS
WHO DON’T HAVE DEEP POCKETS TO
GO OUT TO THE NEXT, YOU KNOW,
OPEN TERRAIN.
OPEN TERRAIN. >> DEVIN: I GUESS THAT’S THE
HOPEFUL SIGN HERE IS AS WE MOVE
SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO CAN’T
PLAY I GUESS IN THE MAJORS,
IMTRIPLE-A AND DOUBLE A BALL.
>> THERE’S A VAST SECTION BY 75,
ORIGINAL PART OF CORKTOWN CUT
OFF BY THE INTERSTATE WHEN IT’S
PUT THROUGH, AND THAT’S SITTING
THERE WAITING FOR RESIDENTIAL
DEVELOPMENT.
DEVELOPMENT. TO NO ONE’S POINT THOUGH WHEN
YOU LOOK AT WEST OF GRAND RIVER
GOING UP, WITH THE ILITCHES
CONTROLLING SO MUCH OF IT AND
THE DISTRICT BEING SO PARKING
LOTTED OFF THAT SECTION, THAT’S
WHERE THIS IS THE CONCERN--
THE CONCERN IS THAT YOU CAN’T
LEAVE THIS HOLE IN DOWNTOWN
THAT’S FULL OF PARKING LOTS AND
EXPECT THE REST OF THIS HOUSING
TO SPREAD OUT TO THE WEST SIDE
THERE AND THAT’S THE INFIELD
QUESTION THAT SOMEONE HAS TO
THINK ABOUT.
THINK ABOUT. >> WOODWARD AVENUE IS THE
HOTTEST REAL ESTATE STRIP IN THE
COUNTRY.
COUNTRY. SOMEONE WOULD DEVELOP THAT LAND