( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) ♪♪
♪♪ >> Stephen: HEY, EVERYBODY!
WELCOME BACK!
FOLKS -- ( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE )
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, MY GUEST TONIGHT IS CNN'S CHIEF
MEDIA CORRESPONDENT AND THE ANCHOR OF "RELIABLE SOURCES."
PLEASE WELCOME, BRIAN STELTER!
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) ♪♪
>> CAN I GET A STUDIO AUDIENCE FOR MY SHOW?
>> Stephen: YOU SHOULD.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY ANYBODY'S ON TV WITHOUT PEOPLE CHANTING
THEIR NAME.
( LAUGHTER ) IT SEEMS LIKE A WASTE OF CAMERA
SPECIAL EDUCATION.
NICE TO HAVE YOU HERE, MR. STELTER.
BIG NEWS TODAY -- >> WHAT?
>> Stephen: GOVERNOR CUOMO RESIGNS.
AS A MEDIA PROFESSIONAL, AS A COMMUNICATIONS ANALYST, WHAT DID
YOU MAKE OF HIS SPEECH?
>> WELL, I WAS SLEEPING.
I TOOK A NAP.
I SLEPT THROUGH IT.
MY KIDS GET UP AT 5:00 A.M.
BY NOON, I GET EXHAUSTED.
I SAW HE WAS ABOUT TO GIVE A SPEECH AND I THOUGHT, HE'S NOT
GOING TO RESIGN SO I WENT TO SLEEP.
>> Stephen: YOU HIT THE HAY.
NO WAY HE WAS GOING TO RESIGN.
YOU KNOW THE IDEAS TRUMP WAS GOING TO GET CARRIED OUT OF THE
WHITE HOUSE HANGING ON TO THE DESK, I THOUGHT THAT WAS GOING
TO BE QUOAM O. THEN I WAKE UP AND MY WIFE IS TELLING ME TO
WAKE UP, COME SEE THE SPEECH.
I THOUGHT HE BURIED THE LEAD.
HE WENT ONBOUND ONBOUND ON AND THEN MENTIONED HE WAS RESIGNING,
THAT'S BAD PRACTICE.
>> Stephen: AND THEN WENT OFF OF THAT INTO THE LEGACY OF HOW
NEW YORK BEAT COVID WITH THE IMPLICATION OF HE LED US THROUGH
THE COVID CRISIS, SO SOME OF IT WAS ABOUT HIS LEGACY, THEN.
>> TRUE.
I WAS GLAD YOU SHOWED A MONTAGE SO I WAS ABLE TO GET A SENSE OF
THE FULL EXPERIENCE.
>> Stephen: MY UNDERSTANDING IS MOST CNN ANCHORS GET THEIR
NEWS FROM THE SHEA WITH STEPHEN COLBERT.
YOU GUYS JUST REPACKAGE WHAT I DO.
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) ( PIANO RIFF )
NOW IN A SMALL WAY, YOUR NETWORK IS INVOLVED IN THE STORY BECAUSE
THE GOVERNOR'S BROTHER CHRIS CUOMO HAS HIS SHOW "THE CUOMO
ZONE "-- .
>> IS THAT WHAT IT'S CALLED?
>> Stephen: I DON'T KNOW.
"CUOMO PRIME TIME."
>> Stephen: "360 CUOMOS."
( LAUGHTER ) AND THE "NEW YORK TIMES" SAID HE
WAS GOING TO GET DROPPED BECAUSE IT WAS ALLEGED HE WAS HELPING
HIS BROTHER WITH THE COMMUNICATIONS TEAM.
ARE PEOPLE MAD AT HIM OR IS HE IN TROUBLE?
>> THEY ARE MAD AT HIM.
I'LL CONFIRM THE "NEW YORK TIMES" REPORT.
I ALSO HAVE A SOURCE THAT SAYS CHRIS WAS ON THE PHONE WITH HIS
BROTHER.
>> Stephen: IS YOUR SOURCE CHRIS CUOMO?
>> HE IS NOT.
HE IS NOT.
YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE BOUNDARIES AND DRAW LINES.
>> Stephen: HE DOESN'T.
I THINK HE DOES, ACTUALLY.
>> Stephen: REALLY?
I THINK CHRIS DOES, NOT THE GOVERNOR.
>> Stephen: WHAT ARE THE BOUNDARIES?
>> THE BOUNDARY CNN MANAGEMENT PRESENTED HIM IN MAY WHEN HE
ADMITTED HE SCREWED UP, IT WAS APPROPRIATE, YOU'RE ON THE PHONE
WITH YOUR BROTHER'S AIDES ADVISING HIM WHAT TO DO.
OF COURSE THEY'RE GOING TO TALK TO YOUR BROTHER.
>> Stephen: THEY DIDN'T TALK TO HIS BROTHER ONCE THE TROUBLE
STARTED.
>> THAT WAS ALSO A MANAGEMENT RULING.
>> Stephen: WHY DIDN'T THEY RULE THAT WAY WHEN HIS BROTHER
WAS ON THE SHOW EVERY NIGHT DURING THE COVID.
SEEMS LIKE AN ODD CONFLICT OF RULES.
>> IT IS, BUT IF WE OPEN UP THE JOURNALISM ETHICS BOOK, THERE'S
NO PAGE FOR THIS.
IT'S A CRAZY SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES, A GOVERNOR AND
BROTHER BOTH IN THESE HIGH-PROFILE JOBS, DEFINITELY
AWKWARD FOR CNN.
I TRIED TO THINK, IF I WAS GOING TO COVER THIS AT CBS HOW WOULD I
COVER IT AND COVER IT THE SAME WAY.
I TALKED TO A LOT OF SOURCES AT CNN AND SOME SAID I'M MAD AT
CHRIS, OTHERS SAID YOU CAN'T PICK YOUR FAMILY MEMBERS.
WHAT'S MOST IMPORTANT, WE COVER THE STORY ON AIR THE SAME AS ANY
OTHER STORY.
ULTIMATELY, ISN'T THAT WHAT MATTERS?
>> Stephen: THE PAPERBACK IS OUT OF YOUR BOOK "HOAX," DONALD
TRUMP AND THE DANGEROUS DOES TORSION OF TRUTH.
THIS HAS A WHOLE BUNCH OF NEW INFORMATION IN HERE.
WHY IS THERE SO MUCH MORE IN THIS PAPERBACK VERSION THAN A
YEAR AGO WHEN THIS WAS RELEASED IN 2020.
>> I HAD TO ADD 12 CHAPTERS BECAUSE OF THE ELECTION AND THE
RIOT AND THE BIG LIE AND THE AFTERMATH.
FOX IS FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT THAN EVEN A YEAR AGO.
I THINK TRUMP'S LOSS OR WHAT THEY THINK WAS, YOU KNOW, A
STEAL, IT FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGED FOX AND RADICALIZED THE NETWORK.
>> Stephen: DID YOU GET PEOPLE FROM FOX TO TALK TO YOU ON
BACKGROUND.
>> ABOUT 250 PEOPLE IN AND AROUND FOX, A LOT OF STAFFERS
INSIDE WHO CAME TO ME BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO BLOW THE WHISTLE.
THEY ARE DISTURBED BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENS ON AIR.
THEY THINK THERE'S NO ONE IN CHARGE.
EVEN THE MURDOCHS WHO OWN THE JOINT DON'T SEEM TO BE IN
CHARGE.
>> Stephen: ROGER AILES, WHEN HE WAS CHARGE, IT WASN'T ALL
SWEETNESS AND A DEDICATION TO THE TRUTH, IT WAS STILL WE'RE
GOING TO TELL YOU WHAT YOU WANT THE TO HEAR IN ORDER TO SELL
SOME SOAP.
>> YES, AND THIS WAS CREEPY WHEN I INTERVIEWED STAFFERS AT FOX,
THEY MISSED AILES BECAUSE, YES, HE WAS ABUSIVE, BUT HE WAS THE
BOSS AND IN CHARGE.
>> Stephen: YOU KNEW WHERE YOU STOOD AND DECISIONS GOT STOOD
BY.
>> AND SOME STANDARDS AILES HAD WENT OUT THE WINDOW.
AILES WAS NOT A BIG FAN OF TRUMP, AND AILES WAS OUSTED FIVE
YEARS AGO WHICH LEADS US ALL TO CUOMO RESIGNING.
THE #metoo MOVEMENT, ALL OF THIS RECKONING STARTS WITH
GREMPEN CARLSEN SUING ROGER AILES FIVE YEARS AGO.
>> Stephen: IS THERE ANYTHING POSITIVE PEOPLE HAD TO SAY ABOUT
FOX BEHIND THE SCENES?
BECAUSE I KNOW SOME PEOPLE WHO WORK OVER THERENS, AND IF YOU
CAN PUT ASIDE THE ABUSE -- WHICH I KNOW THERE'S NO NEED TO PUT IT
ASIDE -- PEOPLE SAY IT WAS A GREAT PLACE TO WORK.
WHAT IS GREAT ABOUT IT?
>> THEY TAKE CARE OF THEIR TALENT, DEFEND THEIR PEOPLE, THE
QUALITY TO HAVE THE PRODUCTION IS STRONG.
WATCH FOX WITH THE SOUNDOFF THE WAY AILES TOLD PEOPLE TO.
>> Stephen: I TRY TO.
( LAUGHTER ) >> AND IT'S A RATHER COMPELLING
TEES OF PELVIS.
BUT THE PLACE HAS BEEN RADICALIZED.
IT'S OKAY IN NORMAL POLITICS, BUT WHEN WE'RE IN A PANDEMIC AND
THEY'RE PUSHING VACCINE MISINFORMATION, THAT'S BEYOND
THE PALE.
>> Stephen: WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT?
A LOT OF THE VIEWERS ARE -- >> OLD?
>> Stephen: -- AGED AMERICA AND DOESN'T SEEM LIKE A GREAT
BUSINESS MODEL TO KILL YOUR VIEWER.
>> I WOULDN'T RUN A BUSINESS THAT WAY.
FOX HAS AN AUTOMATIC CONTRARYISM.
WHATEVER BIDEN SAYS OR STEPHEN COLBERT SAYS, DO THE OPPOSITE.
THAT WORKS DEBATING INFRASTRUCTURE, BUT NOT A
PANDEMIC.
WHEN THEY HEAR THE EXPERTS, THEY FEEL THE OPPOSITE IS THE ANSWER.
THE CONTRARYISM HURTS THE VIEWERS.
>> Stephen: HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE FOR THIS PAPERBACK
VERSION HERE WITH ALL OF THE NEW INFORMATION, YOU SPOKE TO A LOT
OF PEOPLE, I ASSUME, SINCE THE INSURRECTION.
>> YEAH, I FOLLOWED UP WITH PEOPLE.
>> Stephen: DO THE PEOPLE THERE ACTUALLY THINK IT WAS
STOLEN OR ARE THEY JUST SELLING THE PRODUCT THEY THINK THEIR
CLIENT WANTS?
>> THEY ARE SELLING THE PRODUCT.
BY THE WAY, SOME OF MY SOURCES HAVE LEFT BECAUSE THEY CAN'T
TAKE IT ANYMORE.
SO THE PEOPLE WHO STAY ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE TRUE BELIEVERS, BUT
THEY ARE JUST SELLING THE PRODUCT.
I THINK FOX HAS LOST CONTROL OF THE MONSTER THATTETH CREATED.
THEY ARE SCARED OF THEIR VIEWERS.
I'M NOT SCARED OF MY VIEWERS.
ARE YOU?
>> Stephen: I'M TERRIFIED OF THEM.
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) TERRIFIED.
( PIANO RIFF ) WHAT DO YOU MEAN?
I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN.
>> I THINK WHEN -- ( LAUGHTER )
I'M NOT SCARED OF MY VIEWERS, STEPHEN, BUT THEN AGAIN, I DON'T
HAVE A STUDIO AUDIENCE.
>> Stephen: YES.
I THINK THEY ARE SCARED TO TURN OFF THEIR VIEWERS.
THEY KNOW THERE'S MORE RADICAL POSITIONS, NEWSMAX, ONE AMERICA
NEWS.
THERE ARE THESE CHANNELS THAT ARE EVEN WILDER AROUND IF THEY
REPORT THE NEWS IN THE SAME WAY THEY FEAR THEY WILL TURN THE
CHANNEL.
THEY'RE AFRAID OF THEIR VIEWERS.
>> Stephen: HOW LONG HAS IT BEEN ON?
>> 25 YEARS.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, FOX.
( LAUGHTER ) >> Stephen: WHEN DID IT BECOME -
IT IS RIGHT NOW?
>> I THINK IT'S WHEN AILES IS PUSHED OUT FOR ALL THE RIGHT
REASONS, BUT THEN THERE'S A LEADERSHIP VACUUM AND IT GOES
DOWNHILL FROM THERE.
THE PANDEMIC DOESN'T HELP.
WHEN EVERYONE IS BROADCASTING FROM HOME, THAT MAKES IT WORSE,
THE LEADERSHIP VACUUM BECAME EVEN MORE OBVIOUS.
>> Stephen: BRIAN, LOVELY TO MEET YOU.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANK YOU.
>> Stephen: >> STEPHEN: HIS BOOK "HOAX" IS
AVAILABLE NOW.
BRIAN STELTER, EVERYBODY!
WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH A PERFORMANCE BY BIG RED MACHINE.
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) ♪♪