- Okay.
(laughs) You good?
- Yeah, this was rolling.
- Oh, I see.
Hey guys.
I have Shannon with me today.
We did a video last year at VidCon
and so it has to happen again.
I wanted to make a video with Shannon
about monogamy versus polyamory.
So I'm in a monogamous relationship and you are...
How would you define your relationship?
- Open. - Open, okay.
- Open or free, definitely those terms.
- What does that mean to you?
'cause obviously every open relationship is different,
so what are your rules, boundaries,
where do you draw the line on things?
- It definitely is always a dialogue
and I like the term free because it just essentially means
that you're still an independent person,
make your own decisions.
You're sharing time with me, you're sharing a life with me,
or in my case sharing a home with me,
but at the same time, when you make a choice,
you make it for yourself.
But you have to consider the partnership.
So in many ways, it almost exists a lot like a friendship
where it's like you might have a really good friend
and you're like "Hey, is it cool if I do this?"
But if your friend says no, you can still decide
whether or not it's right or wrong for you.
So there's no hard rules around, like,
you cannot flirt with this person.
There's no hard boundaries, but there's a lot of respect.
I was on The View and I described it initially
as like open means no rules.
And they're like "No rules!"
Like, you can't do this, and it was a million.
- It was just like all of these mums, wasn't it, yeah?
- Yeah.
"No, you don't love your partner.
"You're a bad person."
- "It's a sign that there's bad things in the relationship."
- Yeah.
- It's interesting, because I think open relationships
and polyamorous relationships
definitely are very often misunderstood.
Do you think you would have that kind of relationship
with anyone, or do you think it's specific
to your relationship with your current partner?
- I never really thought about it
until my current relationship.
And how it basically happened is that we just kept deepening
our bond.
We began as, you swear on your channel?
- Yes.
- Okay, we began as fuck buddies.
It was like a really great,
incredible fuck buddy relationship.
And then we started to rely on each other,
like "Hey, I'm going away, please water my plants."
Like we're exchanging keys and it's like
"I'm going to this event, do you wanna come with me?"
And we just continued to enjoy each other's time.
And then it came to a place where we were living together
and it was like what do you call this?
- (laughs) and you're like wait a second.
- We had created this foundation
of really just like friendship with a deep desire
and connection, like a deep sexual attraction,
but at the same time now we were growing intimacy
and we just decided that term because I would go to New York
and be like "Hey, I'm going to New York.
"There's a dude when I go there who takes me around.
"We hang out, we make out."
I'm a sexually monogamous person,
which is not important to mention.
Everyone has their own way of defining openness,
but for me, my desire to be in one
has never been sexual based, but it really has been
about flirting, connection, sometimes making out.
I do desire an exchange and I just don't work well
with authority figures.
Someone telling me I can't do something...
- It's like "No, you're not allowed."
- It doesn't work for me.
Now that I'm in this style,
it like definitely deeply honours me
and I would want one going forward
but no, I didn't beforehand, no.
- Yeah.
That's really interesting to me
because I didn't realise that your openness
in terms of, like, how you personally go about it
is not sexual.
You can have an open relationship where you're like
"Yeah, you can fuck other people, it's fine."
But then you might be like "But I don't choose to."
- I just act single.
Because when I was single, the same thing.
I definitely have, like, not been in sexual relationship
outside a relationship in like over seven years.
So even as a single woman, I might receive oral sex
and that's it.
Or I might just make out and that's it.
How I behaved when I was single
is the same way I behave in a relationship, I'd say that.
- That's nice, because I feel like a lot of resentment
in relationships comes up when you are going about your life
and you feel like "I can't talk to this person"
or "I'm behaving wrong around this person."
And then you feel anxious all the time
and you feel like you're not allowed
to kind of, like, be yourself in a lot of situations
because of how your partner would react.
Problems, problems, problems,
and then you end up cheating,
which is something that wasn't agreed in relationships.
- We just broke down 10 years.
(laughs)
In three seconds.
So I'm curious for you, you describe relationship
as monogamous.
There's a difference between open, monogamish,
polyamory, swinging.
Polyamory is when all partners are equal,
so they don't put any specification on primary partnership.
And monogamish really is when it's like
"Yeah, we go to a strip club together
"and we both get private dances in the back room.
"Or maybe we go to parties and we like both flirt
"with the waiter.
"Maybe we're on chat rooms and that, you know,
"we have a live web cam girl."
Or something like "We have a threesome."
- I could imagine my relationship maybe developing
into something that's monogamish
but currently it's mostly monogamous.
It should be in any relationship,
whatever type of relationship you're having.
Having an open dialogue is just so important.
One of the great things that I love
about kind of polyamorous relationships
is I look at them and how healthy they are
and how happy everyone is and how good the communication is.
I'm like "Oh my god, some monogamous people really need
"to, like, learn from you guys."
For me, it's like I'm just very happy, we're very happy
in the current situation and how it works,
but that doesn't necessarily mean that's what it's going
to be like forever.
- And that's the healthiest attitude.
My pet peeve question is when people are like
"Think you guys will eventually move towards closed?"
I'm like, this isn't like Mario Cart with levels.
Like we start off as fuck buddies, we graduate to open,
hopefully this time next year!
Like, we do what's authentically right for the partnership
and we have the conversation.
And I do think that a problem with conventional monogamy
is that people look at it like, okay, great,
somebody has written the rules for me.
There's already like an autopilot.
- That's so true.
- You know, I know if I'm in a monogamous relationship,
there's things that we can and can't do
because somebody has prewritten and told us what that is.
- Yeah, because even if you're in a monogamous relationship,
what about flirting, about finding someone else attractive
and commenting on it, sharing a bed with somebody,
nothing's going on but you're sharing a bed with somebody
of the gender that you are attracted to?
- Because you have a lot of male friends.
Like I was saying that,
to know you have a mystery relationship.
(laughs) But I was like "Is it this dude, is it this dude?"
And she's like "No, that's just friends on a trip."
And so your relationship allows you to still continue on
with not-same-sex friends.
- If I was ever in a relationship where my partner
made me feel like I couldn't have male friends,
I'd be like red flag.
- Compatibility, you know, is a very intricate process.
And compatibility's extremely important.
Myself and my partner are very similar in that regard.
Like he has less sexual partners than I have had.
Previous to us even meeting,
and so we're both people who are, like, very conscious
of health, we get checked very frequently.
When we first got together, he's being checked
like once every two months.
I'm like "Bruh, I'm not having sex with nobody else."
But he was still really, really on it.
So our values in that way aligned
and we knew what we really desired of an open relationship
is the fact of freedom and personal choice
and not having the rules.
I was in a monogamous relationship previously.
It was constant cheating.
Not that it soured me, but I mean,
I was definitely mentioning to my partner, I'm like
"If I can date other people, it's okay."
But there was rules that I wasn't allowed to
and it was lying, and I found myself being the person
who was going through his phone,
trying to figure out passwords,
because you become an investigator.
And in my current relationship, I've never gone
through his phone before.
- Going through your partner's phone, to me,
without their permission,
is just like a big red flag for me.
Early signs of being distrustful
and not respecting their privacy and things like that.
- But most people graduate to that.
After a few times of being wronged
or some weird things that they've seen.
When you get to that point, you've got to stop
and be like maybe we change the relationship style.
People want to be successful.
People don't want to be douchebags,
they don't want to be assholes.
What they also don't want to do at times
is be authentic with themselves
and say "I just don't function well in this style
"of relationship."
Same way some people don't do nine to fives well.
That's just not how you work best.
Let's find you a relationship that brings out the best
in you and allows you to be successful.
- And I think a lot of people find it
to be a really difficult conversation to have.
And it is, because you might be going to your partner
who's someone you love and respect and care so deeply about
and vice versa, and you're saying to them
"Hey, I need more" or "I need something different."
That's not the same as saying "You're not enough for me."
And it doesn't have to, like,
change your fundamental feelings towards that person.
It just means that for you, you just have other desires
and other needs.
That's fine and I think the way that monogamy
is, like, put on a pedestal in society is very much
like you punish yourself for having any feelings
or anything that is outside of, like you said,
the autopilot prescribed rulebook.
- At the end of the day, people have multiple children,
not because they don't love one enough
or the one wasn't good enough.
You know, you have multiple friends,
you may have multiple jobs.
You know, a lot of coworkers
that you enjoy spending time with, multiple hobbies,
and so I don't look at it as very dissimilar.
At the end of the day, I always say like
"New can't compete with old."
Familiarity, trust, comfort,
all those things are incredible.
On the flip side, old can compete with new.
- Novelty, excitement.
Potential.
- Yeah, and I think you draw the line in terms
of your health, your own emotional and physical health.
Of course you don't want to be constantly chasing
something new, but if you can find the level
to experience that as somebody who also is on the same page
of like that's okay with them, then that might be for you.
I'm a big proponent of that's not for me, you know?
If you can add "for me" to any sentence, I'm not offended.
You've been so honourable of being like
"We're in a monogamous relationship.
"I can potentially see and we're open, we're always talking,
"but right now that's not for me."
- But I also think of it like "It's not for us."
It's not always just about one person in the relationship.
There's two of you.
Maybe more if you're polyamorous.
The way that I think of it is like the way
that the two of us work together,
what is best for our relationship.
And sometimes you might have
to put personal desires on hold.
- I'll debate you on that.
On this one particular topic.
- Okay, go.
- I do think there's like five things
you should not compromise on.
But you dictate what those five things are.
- Oh, so you pick the five things.
- You choose the five things in advance.
- What are your five things?
- Securely attached.
- What does that mean?
- Somebody who's not anxious or clingy or avoidant.
That kind of like it's cool
if my girl likes other dudes' photos.
Or you didn't call them and they're like
"Where have you been all day?"
Like, I can't do that.
- No.
- Speak to my love language
is also really, really important to me.
- Oh, what are your love languages?
- Touch and then acts of service.
- I'm touch and words of affirmation.
- Oh, wow.
You're beautiful.
- (laughs) Oh, thank you!
- Your shirt is gorgeous, great colour.
- My partner's is touch and quality time.
- You don't have to have the same languages,
just speak the other person's language.
That's what's so important to me.
At the end of the day, pick some five things.
And there's a list you can go to,
The Science Behind Happily Ever After.
It's a list of 20 things that are deeply important,
if you Google that.
- There was a New York Times article that I read today.
Do you remember the 36 questions
that'll help you fall in love with a stranger?
- Yes, to fall in love, yes!
- It's like a follow up from that.
They live together and they have a contract,
but not like a 50 Shades contract,
but like a who does the laundry, who does this?
And when you are like a couple living together,
it's very similar to managing a business.
And so it's a lot of stuff like that and they review it
every so often, it's really good.
- One of the things on the list is actually "useful"
and the explanation of that is like can do laundry,
does fix the car, does taxes.
I can't tell you how many people I do that quiz with
who rate that as extremely low.
So if a part of your top five things
is that you are a high novelty seeker
or that you are an extroverted person,
the Myers-Briggs thing, and you get recharged
from new experiences and meeting new people,
then don't compromise that.
That should be one of the things
where you're like "No, this is a me thing."
But there's definitely things that are 18, 25,
or even 10 on your list that you're like "Okay, cool,
"I can live without having all of my needs met."
- And I think that's really important as well.
Like, knowing yourself so well
and your partner knowing themselves so well.
Sometimes you might ultimately just come to the conclusion
that you're not compatible.
Do you know?
And like letting go of that and realising that
is equally as important as putting in the little bits
of work that require a healthy relationship to thrive.
- I could not agree with you more.
A sentence that people have to say more often is
"We're just not compatible!"
And in relationships a lot of times,
people even ask about what's a deal breaker.
There is no deal breakers.
For me, going in a restaurant with a guy
who doesn't pay is bad,
but for somebody who's very interested in saving money,
like "Wow, he really is frugal and I value that."
So there is no set deal breakers.
There's somebody for everybody,
but you have to be honest about who you are to start.
- Are all of your experiences of monogamous relationships
been negative?
Have you had any good, positive?
- I had an amazing one in college.
In college, I had an incredible guy who was just so sweet.
And I moved, I went to school in Baltimore
and I came back to Canada.
My parents are in a monogamous, 30 plus year marriage.
- Yeah, same.
I mean, I assume they're monogamous (laughs).
- Yeah, my sister is in a monogamous relationship.
I mean, everybody around us, end of the day,
is like most people are in them.
I think they're incredible and awesome
and I know people who are deeply honoured by them.
I do know friends who should not be
in a monogamous relationship.
- This type of relationship is not compatible with you.
- Yeah!
And you just see them make the same mistakes
over and over again.
So I'm not saying do it,
I'm not saying I'm trying to like tell the world
or poison you guys.
I'm just saying make the list,
be honest about what makes you excited,
what brings out the best in you,
and then align yourself with a relationship
where those values are valued.
- What would your advice be to someone
who is maybe in a monogamous relationship
and is like wanting to broach the topic,
how would they do that?
- Focus on yourself.
Do not say one thing about "Well, I just feel
"like we don't..."
I get energised from new experiences,
I find myself going out and having a wandering eye,
but when I do that, because even for me,
it's like I have the show.
I went on like over 40 first dates.
And some of the dates, I connected with people.
But when I came home, it actually made me more excited
to connect with my partner.
And because he was a part of that,
because he doesn't exclude himself from that part
of my life.
- Does he watch the show?
- Yeah.
He still, like...
I bring that energy back to my partnership.
If you can say that, where it's like this excites me
and allows me to come home and I feel more energy with you.
You know, if you focus on yourself,
that's I think the most healthiest way.
The second you make it about the relationship,
that's when you run into hot water.
I have gone through a lot of couples
where it's like they just keep hitting a wall
and maybe if we open it up, that'll help fix things.
- No.
Because being open is not a solution.
- No.
- It's not a solution.
- For a bad relationship.
- Yeah, exactly.
Because I know people that there's been like cheating
in a relationship and then post-cheating,
then like "Okay, fine, we'll be open."
And then no one's happy,
because that's not what they wanted.
- Or it's just like not compatible
and they're like "Well, maybe if we add more people,
"I get to talk to you less and that'll make me happier!"
(laughs) And it's like
"Why don't we just not talk at all anymore?"
But I think it's just negotiating that.
And we live in an amazing time, again,
when there's so many opportunities to have this discussion
and you can bring it up like "Hey, I watched this video
"on Hannah's channel, what do you think?"
- Yes, use some like external stimulus like a YouTube video,
film, book, whatever, and go, "Yeah, what did you think
"of that?"
Even if you're just talking about it conceptually.
- I love how your, like, conceptual talk sounds
like theatre.
Hello partner, how are you doing?
Today I was reading this thing.
- That is exactly how I do it.
(laughs)
Thank you so much, Shannon, for coming and chatting
and being on my channel.
We did a video over on Shannon's channel
that you should check out where we talked
about pornography and Shannon just plugged my book,
which is great, thank you.
- Yeah, I love your book.
- Thank you!
- Yeah, it's plugged in me right now actually,
whatever that means.
- I don't know, but I'm into it.
So go check out Shannon's YouTube channel.
It is incredible if you love all things sexy,
science-y, relationship-y theory.
Fascinating.
Your Fullscreen show, do you want to plug that?
- Shan Boody Is Your Perfect Date is a show
where I go on 10 different psychological experiments
to test out how people can effectively connect
with one another and it's really fascinating
and interesting, so you can go and check that out.
And I'm also gonna be on your podcast.
- That'll be an episode of the Banging Book Club out
that I'll link in the description,
where me and Lucy are gonna chat to Shannon
all about her show and how it relates to The Game,
which is one of the books that we read
for Banging Book Club.
So definitely check that out as well.
Please give the video a thumbs up if you enjoyed it
and let us know in the comments your thoughts on monogamy,
polyamory, open relationships,
where you sit with all of that.
Thanks for watching, bye.
- Bye!
(calm music)