>> From the Hard Rock Hotel in Las Vegas,
It's theCUBE,
covering HoshoCon 2018.
Brought to you by Hosho.
>> Okay, welcome back everyone.
We're here for CUBE's live coverage
here in Las Vegas for HoshoCon.
This is the first industry conference
where the smartest people in security
are together talking about blockchain security.
That's all they're talking about here.
It's a bridge between multiple diverse communities
from developers, white hat hackers, technologist,
the business people all kind of coming together.
This is theCUBE's coverage,
I'm John, for our next guest Anand Prakash,
who's the founder for AppSecure.
He's also the number one bounty hunter in the world.
He's hacked everything you could think of;
exchanges, crypto exchanges, Facebook, Twitter, Uber.
Welcome to theCUBE, thanks for joining me.
>> Uh, thank you John.
>> So, you've hacked a lot of people,
so let's, before we get started, who have you hacked?
You've hacked an exchange.
>> Yeah. >> Exchanges plural?
>> Most of the exchanges. >> Mostly the exchanges?
>> Yeah, ICOs.
>> ICOs? >> Yeah,
and bunch of other MNCs.
>> Twitter, Facebook? >> Twitter, Uber, Facebook,
and then Tinder.
Yeah. >> A lot.
>> Yeah, a lot.
I cannot say the name.
>> You're the number one bounty hunter.
Just to clarify you're a white hat hacker,
which means you go out and you do a service for companies.
And it's well known that Facebook
has put bounties out there.
So, you take them up on their offer,
or-- >> Yeah, so basically companies
say us, hack us, and we'll pay you.
So, we go and try to hack their systems,
and say this is how we are able to discover a vulnerability,
and this is how it can be exploited against your users
to steal data, to hack your systems.
And then they basically say, this is how much we are
going to pay you for this exploit.
How did you get into this, how did you get started?
>> So, it started with a simple Phishing hack in 2008.
It was an Orkut phishing hack,
and one of my friend telling me to hack his Orkut account.
And I Googled, how to hack Orkut account,
and I wasn't having any technical knowledge
at that point of time.
No coding, no knowledge, nothing.
I just Googled it and found ten steps,
and I followed that ten steps.
Created a fake page,
I sent it to my friend, and he basically clicked on it,
and there it is, username and password.
(laughs)
>> He fell for the trap >> Definitely,
>> right away. >> Yeah.
>> So, quick Google kiddie script
kind of thing going on there, which is cool.
Okay, now you're doing it full-time,
and it's interesting here,
this is the top security conference.
Those are big names up there, Andreas was giving keynote.
But I was fascinated by your
two discussion panels, or sessions.
Yesterday you talked about hacking an exchange,
and today it was about how to hack Facebook, Twitter,
these guys as part of the bounties.
This is fascinating because everyone's getting hacked.
I mean you see the numbers.
>> Yeah. >> I mean,
half a billion dollars, 60 million here, 10 million.
So, people are vulnerable and it's pretty easy.
So, first question for you is how easy is it
these days and how hard is it to protect yourself?
>> So, the attacks, the technologies, and then attacks
are getting more sophisticated, and hackers are
trying newer and newer exploits.
So, it's good for companies
and descryptpexion just to employ
ethical hackers, white hat hackers, and moodapentas,
and bunch of other stuff to secure their assets.
So, it's, you wouldn't say for companies not doing security,
then it's very easy for someone like us
to hack their systems,
but there were companies doing Golden Security.
They are already have an internal security team,
external folks securing their systems, then it's difficult.
But, it's not that difficult.
Let's talk about your talk yesterday about the exchange.
Take us through what you talked about there
that got some rave reviews.
How did you attack the exchange?
What did you learn?
Take us through some of the exchanges you hacked
and how, and why the outcome?
>> Yeah, so, we have been auditing
bunch of ISOs and exchanges
from past two months, and quite a good number.
So, what we see is most of them, don't have security,
basic security text in place.
So I can log into anyone's account.
They have a password screen on the UA,
but I can simply type it in without,
without no indication or alteration,
I can just log into anyone's account,
and then I can get fund's out of their system.
Very similar to, one issue which we found in talk in sale,
was we were able to see PIA information of all the users.
All the passwords details and everything,
who has done KYC.
So, there are lot of information disclosures in the API.
And the main thing which we hackers do is
we try to test this systems manually instead of going
more into an automated kind of approach,
running some scanner to figure out sets of hues.
So, scanners are, sorry.
Scanners are obviously good,
but they're not that much good in finding out
all the logical loopholes.
>> So, you manually go in there, brute force, kind of thing?
>> Yeah, not exactly,
not that brute forcing, >> Not brute force.
>> but of our own ways of doing things,
and there are lot of good bounty hunters
or white hat hackers,
who are better than me and who are doing things.
So, it becomes more and more sophisticated.
We don't know when you get hacked.
>> So, when the bounties are out there,
does Facebook just say, hey, go to town?
Or they give you specific guidance,
so, you just, they say go at us?
What do you do?
>> Yeah, so basically the publicist sends
some kind of legal documentation around it,
and some kind of scoping on the top targets to hack.
And then, they basically publish their reward size,
and everything, and the policy and everything around.
And then we just go through it.
We try to hack it and then we report it to their team,
via channel, and then they fix it,
and then they come back to us saying,
this is how we fixed it and this is what the impact was,
and this is how much we're going to pay you.
>> And then they just they pay you.
>> Yeah, my yesterday's talk
was mainly focused on hacking these ICOs,
and descryptpexion in the past.
Some of the case studies which we have done in the past,
and obviously we can't disclose customer names,
but we directed some of the information,
and showed them how we helped them.
>> What should ICO's learn,
what should exchanges learn from your experience?
What's the walkaway for them?
Besides being focused on security.
What specifically do you share?
>> Yeah, so to be very frank,
I know few of the companies and bunch of companies
who don't appreciate white hat hackers at all.
So, these are ICOs and crypexinges.
So, the first and foremost thing they should do is,
if they are not having any internal, external,
if they are having any internal security team right now,
then they should go further back down the program
to make sure people like us,
or people like other white hat hackers,
go and hack their systems and tell them ethically.
>> How does a bounty, how does someone set that up?
>> So, uh-- >> Have you helped
people do that? >> Yeah, so,
our company does that.
We help them setting up a bug bounty program from scratch,
and we manage it by our typewriting platforms,
and we invite private, and we do it privately,
and we invite ethical hackers
to hack into their systems ethically.
And then we do have arguments with bunch of them,
and that's how they're going to secure.
>> So, how does that work, they call you up on the phone?
Or they send you an email?
They send you a telegram?
How do they get in touch with, the website?
They do face-to-face with you?
They have to do it electronically?
What's the process?
>> For the bounty hunting?
>> Yeah, for setting up a bounty program.
>> Yeah, for setting up a bounty program with our company,
we basically get on Skype call with them,
we explain them what is going to
be their budget and everything.
How good their security team is,
and if they are not having any internal security team,
what I know, then we never suggest them
going for the bounty program
because they may end up paying huge amount of money.
(John laughs) So, then we basically
sell our pen testing services to them, and say,
this is, you should go out for a pen testing service first,
and then you should go for a bounty program.
>> Because they could be paying
way too much in bounties. >> Yeah, yeah.
>> Yeah, 'cause they don't know what their exposure is.
So, you do some advisory, consulting, get them set up,
help them scale up their
security practice basically. >> Yes, yes, yes.
Their entire security team.
>> So what was the questions at the sessions?
What were some of the things the audience was asking you?
Did any good questions come out that you were surprised by,
or you expected?
>> No, so, all of, so, for the very first talk,
about the hacking the crypexion and all,
all of them were surprised.
They thought putting up a two-factor authentication,
or something like that,
makes their account secure.
But it's not like that.
(both laughing)
We hack on the APIs.
So, it's very, very, very
super easy for us most of the time.
>> So, the APIs are where the vulnerabilities are?
>> Yeah. >> Mainly.
>> The APIs, the URLs.
>> Yeah.
So, you guys use cloud computing at all?
Do you use extra resource?
I saw a bunch of stories out there about quantum computers,
and that makes things better on the encryption side.
What's your thoughts on all that, and hubbub?
>> Yeah, so mainly we use anomaly intercepting proxy
to intercept these calls, which are going on
a straight to PS outputting, out of our own SSLP,
'cause the safety we get, and then trusting it.
So, we try to plane to the APIs and them doing stuff.
We don't need a big, high-end machine
to hack into services. >> Gotcha, so you're dealing
with them in the wire transmission.
So, what do you, tell me about the conference here,
what of some of the hallway conversations you've had?
What's your observation?
The folks that could not make it here,
what's it like?
What's the vibe like?
What's it like here?
>> So, they missed lot of things.
(both laughing)
And um, it was first Blockchain Security Conference,
and I've been flying from all over doing the art,
to just attend this conference.
I was here one month back for Defcon and Black Hat,
and for some other hacking event.
>> So, you wanted to come here?
>> Yeah. >> Yeah,
I meet a lot of cool people here.
I met so many great people.
>> I planned it out even before Defcon Black Hat.
(laughs) >> Okay, go 'head.
>> I had to go to Hosho. (giggles)
>> I think this is an important event
'cause I think it's like a new kind of black hat.
Because it's a new culture, new architecture.
Blockchain's super important, there's a lot of interest.
And there's a lot of immature companies out there that are
building fast, and they need to ramp up.
And they're getting ICO money,
which is like going public,
so, it's like being grown-up before you're grown-up.
And you got to get there faster.
And I mean, that seems to be, do you agree with that?
>> Um, yeah, definitely so.
A lot of people love putting money into ICOs
then what if they go tag,
then people don't know about security that much,
so, it's a big--
>> So, what are you excited about?
Stepping back from the bounty hunter that you are,
as you look at the tech industry,
security, and blockchain in general,
what are you most excited about?
What are you working on? >> So, frankly saying, so,
I'm looking forward to hack,
articulately hack more and more exchanges,
and uh, I believe none of them should die the legal tag,
but, that's where most of the money
is going to be in the future.
So, that's the most interesting thing.
Blockchain security is the most--
>> Yeah, that's where the money is.
>> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> The modern day bank robbery.
It's happening.
Global, modern, bank robbery.
(Anand laughs) Andreas is right, by the way.
(Anand giggles) He talked about that today.
It's not like the old machine gun, give me the teller way.
Give me your cash drawer, on, it's--
>> That was a very nice talk.
>> It's other people from other banks with licenses.
>> Yup.
>> The new bank robbers.
Well, thanks for coming on theCUBE, sharing your story,
appreciate it. >> Thank you.
>> Great to have you on. >> Thank you for inviting me.
>> You're a real big celebrity in the space,
and your work's awesome,
and love the fact that you're ethically hacking.
>> Yeah, by the way, I'm not
the world's number one bounty hunter.
I'm just--
>> Number two.
>> Not number two, maybe, there are lot
people out there. >> You're up there.
>> I'm just learning and--
>> We could do a whole special
or a Netflix series on the bounty hunting.
>> Yeah, yeah. (laughs) >> And follow you around.
(both laughing)
And now, thanks for coming out, appreciate it.
>> Thank you. >> Good to see you.
>> Good to see-- >> All right.
More CUBE coverage after this short break, stay with us.
Here, live, in HoshoCon.
First security conference around Blockchain.
I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching.
(upbeat techno music)