I'm Munroe Bergdorf, I am a model and activist and I'm Emma Gannon I'm an
author, broadcaster, podcast host and we're here to talk about feminism. So I
think for me the most simple definition of feminism is equal opportunity and
choice but not necessarily expecting women or men to make particular
decisions. For example not all women want to be a CEO but they should have the
opportunity to be one if they want to. The dictionary definition is equality
between the sexes , but I think it needs to be broadened towards equality between
identities. When I think of feminism I do think of like my personal feminism I
think of my feminist activism. I think that activism can be as small or
large as you can manage and no one should feel like they should ever need
to be an activist. If it's going to be detrimental to your safety then don't do
it, but if it's something that you feel you
can do to help yourself and others, then one hundred percent. The other thing I think you could do
just to feel like you're maybe part of something is celebrating other women in
small ways. I don't think feminism is liking all women - there's loads of women
I don't like that's okay but I think by just like retweeting someone's
campaign or I don't know following someone who is like really different to
you and just like lifting other women up in a way that's just like small acts of
lifting up others. For sure. So I'm obsessed with the slum flower. Oh
my god I'm obsessed. She's amazing - I really feel like she's like a diamond in
the rough. I love that her hashtag is is taking off. Taking off? #SaggyBoobsMatter...
Oh my god yes. I love that! It's got national attention and it's just a
hashtag on Instagram. I think that's what's exciting right now as well. It's a
different take on body positivity isn't it? That we're not really talking about... And Cardi B
obviously - an accidental feminist icon. There's this Guardian
article written by an amazing poet with Bridget Minamore and it's called "Can
I be a feminist and..." Mm-hmm... and I think the answer is always yes
whatever that "and is" it's always a yes isn't it? They don't need to be relative
to each other you know? Like can I be a feminist and wear pink?
Can I be a feminist and wear makeup? Can I be a feminist and not have
children? Like, what? Do you think there's some sort of blurred lines with - so for
example, I freaked out the other day because there was a spider in my house, I
hate spiders, and I made my boyfriend get rid of the spider. Is that not feminist?
Like that you know small things like that, I do question myself and just and
we were talking about chivalry recently yeah like is it
unfeminist to want someone to open a door for you? Yeah, I do get that guilty
feminist thing sometimes. I guess there's always that social construct that we've
like learnt and then there's you know that process of unlearning and then
existing between the two. I know so many nice, well-intentioned men in my
life who still don't understand what feminism means.They still find it
slightly aggressive, the term, if I go into a room and say "yeah I'm a feminist"
I know a lot of people as well who prefer the word 'humanist' but I think it's
missing the point because we need the 'fem' in there to prove the
point. Feminism is still thought - it's for
everybody, it benefits everybody so when we just like turn off and say humanist, I
think it's just getting away from the issue. What really really annoys me is
women in the public eye that I really respect when they just say "well I
wouldn't call myself a feminist" and just like you've got an opportunity to use
your platform and it literally just means equality of the sexes, how can you
not be a feminist? Absolutely everybody should be a feminist. I so agree because
by saying "I'm a feminist" even the people who aren't sure will then go and look it
up and then they'll read what it actually means. There's this - the common
misconception that men don't benefit from feminism, that men have anything to
contribute which is ridiculous when the definition is equality and equality
means that neither can be in charge of either and the reality is that men
dominate is so much of society in a way that oppresses women. I think that if a
man isn't 100% secure within himself and with his gender identity and
what his identity means within the construct that is masculinity, then I can
understand how you can find a woman that's comfortable within her identity,
I understand how you can find that quite threatening. I totally agree. One thing
I've been thinking recently about this sort of defensiveness when it comes to men, I
realized that a lot of the feminists sort of debates or events, even private
Facebook groups like all of this stuff - they do all include a lot of women I
feel like I need to include men more in the feminism dialogue and I don't blame
some men, not all men, for feeling slightly left out and actually I feel
like it's up to us as feminists to, you know, group hug everyone in. Yeah I do
feel like misandry which is the opposite to misogyny, I mean
that's just going to have such a detrimental effect,
I think that feminism does need to be inclusive and there needs to be a
narrative that is inclusive of men but men also need to understand that
feminism is to largely liberate women is not to liberate men further. Mm-hmm. For
me, my perspective on global feminism is I've struggled with actually over the
past because I've always felt like I'm a privileged white woman on a panel
talking about a pay gap in London like that's never made me feel like I'm doing
that much in the massive wider scheme of things. But there's a quote I read a
while ago I can't remember who said it but they said that feminism is like a
patchwork quilt of like you doing your bit. I'm just great believer that there's
no leader in feminism. There cannot just be one person that's leading the pack
and I feel like that's where I've become uncomfortable when people refer to
themselves as leaders of feminism. I feel like every person is leading their own
personal journey and when it comes to global feminism I completely agree -
I can't speak on what it's like to be you know a trans woman in Indonesia and
what her feminist battle is. I think it's all about passing the mic and using
whatever platform we have as privileged people within the Western world to give
that person the microphone and say "this is your chance to tell your
story" not me tell your story for you. I think it's interesting with people who
don't follow this trend of wearing black, for example, on the red carpet so at the
BAFTAs recently Frances McDormand decided not to but she made a joke about
it on stage that she wasn't good at compliance and that she'd worn a red
dress and people laughed and people loved her so she got away with it, it's
fine. Kate Middleton wore a green dress and everyone was like up in arms and I - isn't it
royal protocol to not get involved? - Yeah apparently she can't wear, she can't
be political is that it? So she wore like the closest darkest colour. I kind of like that she wore the closest thing to black.
Why do you think people have rules for some women and rules for different women? Well this is
it - I think it's - society finds women threatening or if they're not
a particularly lovable woman or the nation's sweetheart
then I don't know the sense of I don't really want to be on your side. I also
feel like there's a trend of really lifting up people and then tearing them
back down. Like on the flip side of any successful woman, like any, there's
always been backlash. For anybody that calls out women for being feminists or
shames a woman for being feminist , that's just misogyny. Mm-hmm. Really. I always think of it as erm, whenever I
write an article that might be slightly controversial because I've said I'm a
feminist in it, I get these like trolls that come out and I think of it as like
'Stranger Things' you know like the Upside Down - I go into this like Twitter world
but I didn't know ever existed and they've all got like the same profile
picture like waving a flag or something and I'm just thinking "oh my god there's
so many of you that exist that don't like feminist". But then I think also forcing
all of these people off of social media is just creating a new platform where it
will just breed that kind of hate. I think that there needs to be a balance.
It's difficult because there's a big difference between using your freedom of
speech and abusing your freedom of speech and I don't think that a lot of
people understand the difference. I mean if I'm being honest
the future of feminism to me is we don't talk about it. I think feminism has won
when we don't make videos about feminism. Do you know what I mean? Like talking
about feminism is really important right now because I think we can get lazy, we
can get complacent we can think yay Time's Up,
it's all fixed whereas feminism is still very much needed but I think I'd love it
for it not even to be a word. The fact that the world is equal. I think exactly the same.
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