Okay welcome everybody today i'm here with Jane
Kisbey who is doing a PhD in philosophy here at the University of
Birmingham.
And she has an extremely interesting project on
philosophy and psychopathy so Jane just to start with.
Why do you think that philosophers are so interested in psychopathy there is quite a
bit of literature on the topic and why, in particular, you are interested
in it and you wanted to do your PhD on this topic.
But I think what I find most interesting is that on the one
hand, people with psychopathy commit terrific acts that seem to just
demand accountability.
But on the other hand, the very fact that they're doing these
things seems to suggest that they don't fully understand the nature
of their acts.
So I think both philosophers and psychiatrists seem to
disagree about the nature of the disorder itself, which is a common
problem for personality disorders in general.
But I think, in particular with psychopathy because it is
morally loaded so I find it interesting because I think we should
try and develop a new understanding.
Of psychopaths and my understanding of them is that we should
stand in terms of future discounting and discounting other people,
so what I find interesting is this relationship between future
discounting and moral responsibility.
Good So what do you think the most important factors are when we're thinking about more
responsibility?
When is it that we can see someone as responsible
in a moral sense for the actions or decisions that they make.
I think that philosophers can disagree about moral
responsibility and whether psychopaths are responsible because they
disagree on the condition itself, and also the conditions for more
responsibility.
But generally, generally speaking, we think that a person has
to be free in some sense.
And the interesting thing with psychopaths is that they seem
to have a lack of long term planning and they seem to live in the
moment.
And they seem incapable of controlling their current impulses
and if they struggle to be free than this might have an impact on
their responsibility.
So i'm looking at their future self interest and whether they
have empathy for other people as a lot of philosophers think that
the empathy deficit that's found in psychopathy. is at the heart of any moral deficits, so
a lot of people think that you need to be able to care about
other people, and you need to be able to control your impulses and.
But I think that's what the two things that psychopaths
struggle with so i'm interested in looking at caring about your
future self and the impact that it has a moral responsibility.
There sounds fascinating Thank you before you
mentioned future discounting could you give us an example of someone
or discounts the future in the sense that you're interested in.
Okay, yes, we all future discount to a certain degree.
A general example might just be like smoking or having an
extra glass of wine before bed, and you wake up and you think Why
did I do that myself.
But in terms of psychopaths they seem to have their long term
desires today future discount extremely they might do things that
they know will bring them unwanted attention from the police.
or it will end up in them being put back in confinement, but
they don't care about that they discount that they will just
continue their cycle of.
antisocial behavior or stealing or doing something that will
put them in a position that they don't want to be in in the future
and that's because they're extreme future discounters.
OK, so the present is more important to them than
the future, to a greater degree than for anybody else.
Yes, we've all heard the saying you should live in the moment
and concentrate on the now, but I think psychopaths do this to such
an extreme level that it's dysfunctional for them.
Great Thank you so I imagine people might be
interested in knowing what kind of things a philosopher researches
when she's interested in psychopathy So could you tell us a little
bit about your method.
How do you investigated psychopathy and moral responsibility.
Yes, well, I think, at first, the most important thing is to
look at what defines a psychopath as there is a lot of disagreement
on certain symptoms.
And the core of the disorder, so I think having the
conditions for a psychopath is crucial.
As you need to know these conditions and then put them
against the conditions for more responsibility and see if they meet
them or not, so I think just defining what a psychopath is is,
first, very important.
And then the next thing that I want to work on is empathy and
the role of empathy in moral thinking and moral responsibility.
And then I will say think it's important to look at impulse
control, and if you future self interest and things like this and
then look at how that relates more responsibility.
So I think the most important things are set to do with what
makes a psychopath a psychopath What role does empathy play and
responsibility and what role does impulse control play and
responsibility, as I think that there are two core features of
psychopaths yeah so, is it fair to say that you read
philosophers but also psychologists and psychiatrists in your work
in your daily work.
Yes, it's definitely interdisciplinary but that's one thing I
love about the philosophy of mental health module at Birmingham that
it really enables you to look in other subjects and bits and work
together with other scholars, who are in different subjects from you
yeah.
Fantastic What about um first person accounts of
people with psychopathy have you come across any stories, or maybe.
depictions of psychopathy in fiction in movies and
novels that are interested you inspired you or given you some ideas
about you know, maybe aspects that you hadn't thought about before.
Yes, well, I think the most interesting one might just be
interviews from psychopath, which I find quite interesting.
But I feel like you have to always kind of take them with a
pinch of salt, as you can never know if someone is being totally
honest or trying to portray themselves in a certain light.
But I think some quotes from psychopaths really illustrate
the problem that they have.
And, for example, there was one quotes were a psychopath was
in prison for killing somebody and he compared the act of killing
To squashing a bug and I think seeing quotes like this
really.
drills hot home the fact that, for them, they do not
understand the nature of their acts and they cannot see that killing
the person and squashing a bag is two very different things, so I
think looking at first person accounts is very helpful.
yeah that's such a good example Thank you so much
Jay so good luck with your research, and I hope that you find
everything that you need to complete your work, thank you for
talking to us today.
Thank you so much bye bye.