The Beauty of Human Genius
Transcription of interview with David Shenk on April 23, 2012.
Douglas Goldstein, CFPÆ, Financial Planner & Investment Advisor
David Shenk is an award-winning and national bestselling author of six books, including
the Genius in All of Us
and The Immortal Game.
Douglas Goldstein, financial planner & investment advisor, interviewed Shenk on Arutz Sheva
Radio.
Douglas Goldstein: Over the months since we last spoke, do you still hold by the theory
that genius is something people can learn and develop?
David Shenk: Iím afraid I do. First of all, forgive me I donít remember every detail
of our last conversation or how long it went on for, but this is something that can take
a while to really explain, which is why itís not an article but an entire book. I do encourage
people to check out the book and I know it sounds like a sales pitch, and I guess it
is, but Iím not making that much money off these books.
The devil is in the details and the argument is full of new concepts, which leads me to
my second point. I want to be clear and make sure that people understand that Iím not
claiming that anyone can be anything and that all we need to do is try and that a 4í2î
guy can become the best basketball player that ever lived if he just puts his 9,999.5
hours. We all have our differences and limitations. The point is that none of us know our true
potential until we put in an extraordinary amount of time, effort, and persistence and
we learn to develop an attitude about failure that is really embracing failure as a way
to learn about what we donít know and what skills we donít yet have, as opposed to seeing
failure as some sort of recognition of our innate limitations.
One more thing - I do take issue with the whole concept of the innate and inborn and
this idea that we get a certain amount of stuff from our genes and thatís what we need
to recognize as talent.
Douglas Goldstein: A lot of what youíre telling me is the wisdom of working hard a a path
to success. But is there more to it than that?
David Shenk: There isnít actually a whole lot more to it than that. What I hope to bring
to this is a lot of really interesting science that flashes this out in a new way and helps
us once and for all to smell this myth of innate gifts, innate intelligence, and innate
talents. I do think that it comports very well with the cultural essence of Judaism.
I know Jews live in lots of different places. I have lots of different ideas. Weíre not
monolithic or anything like that, but thereís this essence that I perceived at least over
here in the United States, growing up in my family, and among lots of other Jewish American
families that I also sense is a part of the overall Jewish culture. This is the idea that
you can, should, and must try to do better than your parents, and thatís what your parents
have in mind for you as well, and this is the concept that your potential is what you
put into it. Just because a couple of generations ago we were living in the ghetto and we couldnít
scrape two dimes together doesnít mean that we canít grow up to become extremely well
off, authoritative, intelligent, and successful in whatever endeavor we choose to pursue.
Douglas Goldstein: Do you attribute this to something in Jewish history or the Jewish
mindset?
David Shenk: I think itís a part of culture. I donít think the Jews have a monopoly on
this idea. I just think it happens to be an aspect of Jewish culture thatís actually
been fairly successful in reproducing itself among Jews as well as in other cultures.
The interesting point to make here is that when Iím spelling out my ingredients as it
were for success, a part of it is in recognition of all this being developmental rather than
being some sort of innate stuff that you have. Culture is a huge part of this and in fact,
when you make it all about the individual, when you say ìCan you be a genius?î or ìCanít
you be a genius?î thatís making the question so narrow that itís almost making it a false
question because all of these things have a cultural component too.
We all are limited not only by the genes that weíre born with but by the cultures that
weíre born into, and by culture I mean something as narrow as a family culture. Then youíve
got your community culture, your religious and spiritual culture, and your ethnic culture.
Thereís always a different culture that each of us are a part of and there are ideas and
mores and policy systems that come to each of us as individuals from all these different
cultures that weíre part of, and they affect our attitudes and the developmental process
in all these things. How smart are you capable of being? Part of the answer to that question
is how smart your culture wants you to be, and what sort of level of encouragement/discouragement
is built in to your family/community culture.
Douglas Goldstein: In Korea, they decided that they wanted to start studying the Talmud,
and thereís a huge movement and a huge number of Koreans who are busy studying the Talmud
because theyíve figured that this is what the Jews study. Jews go to Yeshiva, study
Talmud, and they seem to be pretty clever, so there must be something to it. Iím waiting
to have real verification of this but it sort of ties into what youíre saying about certain
cultures having a learning mentality.
David Shenk: One would assume that there are fewer people who know Aramaic in Korea than
there are in Israel. Again, I want to be clear that Iím not claiming that any ethnicity
or religion has any monopoly on powerful ideas or an important culture or means. In fact,
the point is that you can look throughout history and you can see that various cultures,
microcultures, and macrocultures embraced certain ideas and then suddenly out pops this
amazing community of talent.
Youíve got the 19th Century French cuisine explosion. Youíve got all of
this incredible tennis expertise that you also see coming out of certain pocket of Florida.
It wasnít too long ago that Latin America produced all these amazing baseball stars.
You can go to certain places in certain times, and some of the commonality is another great
example. There are all these people doing amazing things, built around ideas and certain
cultures, where not everyone in that place picks up on exactly the same thing but it
does speak to this idea that talent, skills and intelligence, all of these things, are
skills that we build over time starting very early in our lives, and they are very dramatically
affected by culture.
Douglas Goldstein: How does our economic situation affect this? Are the chances that someone
who is wealthy will become more of a genius than someone whoís not wealthy? Is that obvious
or isnít so obvious?
David Shenk: You can go both ways, and certainly resources play a huge role in this process
as well. First of all, letís talk about the very barebones question: ìDo you have enough
to eat? Are you being actually sent to school?î Then raise it up one level to ìAre you living
in a community where your parents have the wherewithal to find you a decent school, or
get you into a good school?î Then thereís the level above that - theyíve got maybe
some money to send you to choose, with some time and the resources, the political connections
and cultural-social connections to find you really good schools, and all these different
levels.
Resources can make a huge difference. Itís obviously not a guarantee. We see lots of
wealthy people grow up not particularly talented or skilled, or that impressive, and we also
see lots of impoverished people grew up using the emotional inspiration of being down and
out as a forward propulsion to just absolutely being committed to making their lives and
the lives of their children better. In that sense, you can work both ways but without
a doubt, economic resources play a huge role in this large questions of who can become
great and who has the resources to do so.
Douglas Goldstein: When youíre using the term ìgenius,î are you using it more colloquially
or according to some scale?
David Shenk: I donít believe in any kind of line of demarcation saying whether you
are a genius or not a genius. In fact, a big part of the book is to say that we get way
too caught up in trying to make that distinction. Iím using it very much as a catchphrase,
and itís also frankly a sales line because I want to attract attention.
Actually, the title of the book The Genius in All of Us, and the real point, which people
will get by the very end of the book, is that the genius inside all of us is that weíre
very human designed. We talked about people getting the right genes or the wrong genes,
and you have this smart gene, dumb gene, or musical gene, but the truth about genes is
that the human genome, the way it is built and designed over time and I believe in evolution,
has evolved into a genius design.
Itís designed to adapt to outside conditions. Itís designed to adapt to the demands that
we put on it. Thatís actually what the real meaning of the title. Itís not that weíre
all geniuses and weíre waiting just to flower into that. Itís the beauty of the design
of the human genome, and instead of containing a certain amount of intelligence, scale, or
talent inside each individual genetic code for each individual person, itís the very
design of it thatís built to adapt to the demands that we put on it in a given lifetime.
Douglas Goldstein: How can people follow your work?
David Shenk: It is www.davidshenk.com, which is probably the best way to get in touch with
me and to find out about my book.
Douglas Goldstein, CFPÆ, is the director of Profile Investment Services and the host
of the Goldstein on Gelt radio show (Monday nights at 7:00 PM on www.israelnationalradio.com.
He is a licensed financial professional both in the U.S. and Israel. Securities offered
through Portfolio Resources Group, Inc., Member FINRA, SIPC, MSRB, NFA, SIFMA. Accounts carried
by National Financial Services LLC. Member NYSE/SIPC, a Fidelity Investments company.
His book Building Wealth in Israel is available in bookstores, on the web, or can be ordered
at: www.profile-financial.com (02) 624-2788 or (03) 524-0942.
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