>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WOULD INFLUENCE THE VIABILITY OF THIRD
AND FOURTH PARTY CANDIDATES OF COURSE IS THE ABILITY TO
PARTICIPATE IN THE DEBATES.
WE'VE SEEN OVER THE PAST MONTH
OR SO, GARY JOHNSON HAS BEEN CLOSER AND CLOSER TO THE
THRESHOLD OF 15% IN THE POLLS TO BE ABLE TO QUALIFY FOR THE
DEBATES.
BUT ALL THIS TIME THERE HAS BEEN A LAWSUIT BREWING IN
THE BACKGROUND TO TRY TO CHANGE THAT THRESHOLD AND GET ONTO THE
DEBATE STAGE WITHOUT NECESSARILY HAVING THE POPULAR SUPPORT, AND
THAT HAS NOW BEEN STRUCK DOWN --
>> BASICALLY THE SUIT SAID THAT THEIR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS
WERE BEING VIOLATED AND ANTITRUST LAWS WERE BEING
VIOLATED BY THE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES COMMISSION THAT CONTROLS
WHO GETS ONTO THERE, WHAT THE SCHEDULE IS, AND ALL OF THAT.
THE RESPONSE FROM THE DISTRICT COURT JUDGE KNOCKS DOWN BOTH OF
THOSE LEGAL ARGUMENTS --
>> THAT IS ALSO KIND OF A BURN AT THE SAME TIME.
IN TERMS OF
THE FIRST AMENDMENT, THEY SAY IT SEEMS WEIRD BUT THE COMMISSION
THAT CONTROLS THE DEBATES IS NOT A GOVERNMENT AGENCY, IT'S A
PRIVATE AGENCY, SO FIRST AMENDMENT CONCERNS HAVE NOTHING
TO DO WITH IT BECAUSE IT IS NOT PART OF THE GOVERNMENT.
>>THIS JUDGE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND POLITICS AT ALL, IN MY OPINION.
I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE AGREED WITH HER DECISION BUT ON
COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GROUNDS.
SHE IS RIGHT ON THE PRIVATE
ENTITY PART, I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT, THIS IS NOT A FIRST
AMENDMENT ISSUE.
AND VIOLATING FEDERAL ANTITRUST LAWS, THAT IS
A UNIQUE ARGUMENT TO MAKE, I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE RULED
AGAINST THAT, ALTHOUGH I WOULD'VE BEEN HEAR, HEAR ON
CREATIVE THINKING.
BUT HER REASONING IS WRONG.
SHE IS LIKE,
WHY DON'T THEY JUST GET POPULAR WITHOUT ANY MEDIA COVERAGE OR
BEING IN THE DEBATES, THEN YOU WILL BE FINE.
THAT'S NOT HOW IT
WORKS, YOU GET IN THE DEBATES AND YOU GET MEDIA FUNDING ETC.
YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND POLITICS.
WRITING THIS DISMISSIVE THING,
OH PLEASE, WHY DON'T YOU JUST GET 15% IN NATIONAL POLLING OUT
OF THIN AIR -- HOW DO YOU DO IT WITHOUT THE MEDIA COVERAGE
AND
DEBATES?
>> THE MEDIA SHOULD BE COVERING OTHER PARTIES, I THINK, AND THAT
COVERAGE MIGHT GIVE THEM THE CHANCE AT LEAST TO REACH THE
15%.
BUT WITH THE DEBATES NOT EVEN HAVING HAPPENED YET, TO SAY
THEY'VE HARMED YOU BY NOT ALLOWING THEM TO BE ON THERE
WHEN THEY HAVEN'T HAPPENED, IT'S A WEIRD LEGAL ARGUMENT TO
CREATE.
>>BUT A POLITICAL ARGUMENT, THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ON.
THEY
WILL BE GREATLY HARMED BY THIS MONOPOLY ON THIS COMMISSION,
WHICH IS OUTRAGEOUS.
>>IT IS ALSO A PROTECTIVE MEASURE.
IT JUST DOES SEEM TO ME
LIKE A FIRST AMENDMENT VIOLATION, THAT THEY SHOULD AT
LEAST CHANGE THE PERCENTAGE.
>>15% IS PRETTY HIGH.
>>THEY ARE PROTECTING IT FROM THE PEOPLE WHO GET 0.003%.
>>YOU CAN'T HAVE EVERYONE SHOWING UP JUST BECAUSE
THEY GOT ON THE BALLOT.
>>THE RENT IS TOO DAMN HIGH GUY WOULD BE THERE.
>>GARY JOHNSON IS BEATING 10%, THAT IS SIGNIFICANT.
>>NOT ON AN AVERAGE, BUT 15 IS HIGH.
>>HE'S DOING WAY BETTER THAN A LOT OF THE REPUBLICANS WHO WERE
ALLOWED IN THE DEBATE IN THE PRIMARIES.
>>THIS IS A NUMBERS THING, WE ARE SO ADDICTED TO THE TENS AND
FIVES.
IT COULD BE NINE, YOU COULD PICK ANY NUMBER.
NINE IS
NOT A LESS SIGNIFICANT NUMBER THAN 10, IT IS ONE LESS, IT IS
RIGHT BEFORE IT.
BUT THEY ARE ADDICTED TO IT.
MAKE IT EIGHT, BE CLEVER.
>>8.2.
>>DONE.
>>UNDERSTAND THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE PRESIDENTIAL COMMISSION ON
DEBATES, IT IS MEANT TO KEEP OUT OTHER PARTIES, IT IS RUN BY THE
DEMOCRATIC AND REPUBLICAN PARTIES AND NO ONE ELSE.
WHY
WOULD THEY WANT ANYONE ELSE?
THEY RUN THE COMMISSION.
>>THEY APPOINT THE PEOPLE WHO RUN THE COMMISSION, AS WELL.
>>WHICH ARE FORMER HIGH-RANKING DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS.
>> IT'S NOT THAT THE PARTIES -- I'M NOT EVEN DEFENDING IT, I'M
JUST PARSING YOUR WORDS.
>>OKAY, AND THAT'S IMPORTANT.
THEY APPOINT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE
GIANT DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS WHO RUN
THE
COMMISSION.
BUT 15%, THAT IS A GIANT NUMBER, IT'S WAY TOO HIGH
A BAR, IT IS NEARLY UNDOABLE.
THE WAY YOU GET TO 15% IS YOU
GET ON A DEBATE STAGE AND PEOPLE GO, WOW, THAT GUY KIND OF MAKES
SENSE.
THAT IS INTERESTING, AND THAT IS HOW JESSE VENTURE A WON
AS AN INDEPENDENT IN MINNESOTA, THAT IS HOW BUDDY ROEMER WON IN
LOUISIANA.
YOU HAVE TO GET ON THE STAGE IST, THERE HAS TO BE
SOME THRESHOLD, YES, BUT THE THRESHOLD NEEDS TO BE SOMEWHERE
BETWEEN ONE AND 15, AND MUCH CLOSER TO ONE IF US ME.
>>I THINK MINE IS A GOOD NUMBER.
AND LET'S REMEMBER, GARY JOHNSON
IS NOT THAT CLOSE TO 15 IN THE AGGREGATE.
THERE HAVE BEEN POLLS
THAT SHOW THAT.
IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO GET TO 15%.
I THINK
IF WE LOOKED AT THE NETWORKS IN THE NEWSPAPERS, THEY ARE
COVERING GARY JOHNSON AND JILL STEIN DISPROPORTIONATELY TO
OTHER THIRD-PARTY CANDIDATES IN THE PAST.
CNN IS DOING THESE
TOWN HALLS, FOR WHATEVER THEY ARE WORTH, IT IS COVERAGE.
>>THEY ARE CRUSHING RALPH NADER IN COVERAGE.
>> AND CRUSHING STEIN AND JOHNSON 2012, TOO.
YOU SAID
BUDDY ROEMER -- LOUISIANA IS A SMALLER PLACE TO DO THIS, TO
HAVE TO PULL ATTENTION IN 50 STATES IS MORE DIFFICULT.
SO
THEY NEED A LITTLE MORE COOPERATION FROM THE MEDIA.
WILLIAM WELD WAS A GOOD CHOICE FOR VICE PRESIDENT, HE JUST
WANTED TO BE ON THE TICKET, HE TRIED TO BE GARY JOHNSON AND BE
THE NOMINEE, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY WILL
NOT VOTE FOR GARY JOHNSON BECAUSE WILLIAM WELD WAS NOT THE
NOMINEE.
THERE IS #NEVERGARY GOING ON.
>>THAT MEANS YOU HAVE GOTTEN SOME MOMENTUM WHEN THEY BOTHER
TO DO A #NEVERGARY CAMPAIGN.
>>IT IS WHAT IT ALWAYS IS, IT'S MONEY.
IF THEY HAD $50 MILLION
THEY COULD GENERATE THE PRESS COVERAGE THAT WOULD GET THEM ON
THE BALLOT AND PROBABLY INFLUENCE THE COMMISSION, AND
SOMEBODY ON THE COMMISSION WOULD BE, WHY DON'T WE MAKE IT 7 1/2%?
OR 10% IN ONE OF THE SIX POLLS?
>>THEY COULD HAVE AN UNDERCARD.
WHY NOT?
>> THE GUYS WHO ARE RUNNING THESE COMMISSIONS, THEY ARE
DIE HARD REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS.
SO THEY ARE NOT GOING
TO MOVE ON A NUMBER UNLESS THEY ARE MADE TO.
AND ONE WAY THAT
THEY MOVE ON THE NUMBER IS OF A LOT OF LEGITIMATE REPUBLICANS
WHO ARE PART OF THE ESTABLISHMENT, THE MITT ROMNEYS
AND JEB BUSHES, GO, MOVE ON THE NUMBER.
LET'S GET GARY IN THE
DEBATE.
THAT'S HOW IT HAPPENS IN REAL LIFE.
>> I THINK THEY'VE GOT TO GET THE POLL NUMBER TO SOMETHING
CLOSE TO 10, HE IS AVERAGING 10, AND THEN ONE OF THE CANDIDATES
NEEDS TO SAY, I THINK GARY SHOULD PROBABLY BE IN.
THEN
THERE COMES A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF PRESSURE, OR MEDIA PRESSURE,
ON DONALD TRUMP OR HILLARY -- WHY DON'T YOU WANT GARY JOHNSON
AND THERE?
>>IT WILL BE A POWER PLAY FOR ONE OF THEM.
>>I THINK HILLARY WOULD BENEFIT FROM THAT.
>>EVEN THOUGH THE NUMBERS HAVE CONSISTENTLY SHOWN THE OPPOSITE.
>>I BELIEVE THAT HAS CHANGED -- IT USED TO BE THAT ADDING THOSE
OTHER CANDIDATES WOULD PREDOMINANTLY HURT HILLARY.
IN
MY VIEW IT GENERALLY MAKES THE GAP BETWEEN THEM ABOUT TWO
SMALLER.
IT SEEMS LIKE WHEN YOU INCLUDE THE FOUR, UNDECIDEDS
THEN PULL TO JOHNSON.
IT DOESN'T ELIMINATE HER ADVANTAGE TO
INCLUDE JOHNSON AND STEIN ANYMORE.
>>PULL TO JOHNSON.
HE SAID THAT.
ONE OTHER THING ABOUT THE KOCH
BROTHERS, THEY DON'T CARE AS MUCH ABOUT PRESIDENTIAL
POLITICS, THEY CARE ABOUT THE SENATE RACES, THE HOUSE RACES,
THE STATE LEGISLATURE RACES, THAT IS WHERE THEIR MONEY IS
GOING.
THEY DON'T LOVE THAT TRUMP IS IN THERE, BUT THE PLAY
THEY ARE MAKING RIGHT NOW IS THE SENATE, THE HOUSE, AND STATE
LEGISLATURES.
>>PROTECTING THOSE RACES AS BEST THEY CAN.
>>LET ME ADD A COUPLE OF PIECES OF CONTEXT, ONE IS THAT GETTING
ON THE BALLOTS IN ALL 50 STATES IS EXTRAORDINARILY HARD.
I DON'T
THINK JILL STEIN IS GOING TO MAKE IT.
GETTING ON THE BALLOT
IN 40 STATES IS INCREDIBLY HARD.
THAT IS ONE METRIC YOU
COULD USE, IF YOU ARE ON THE BALLOT IN 40 STATES, OR 39
STATES --
>>IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE DIVISIBLE BY 13, CENK.
>> IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY DEBATES, A LOT OF PEOPLE ON THE
STAGE WERE POLLING AT 1% OR 2%.
>>THE MEASURE FOR THE DEBATES IS 15% AND A PATH TO 270 ELECTORAL
VOTES, BASED ON THE STATES.
>> IT IS AN EXTRA BURDEN, AS OPPOSED TO THE MAIN METRIC.
>> GARY JOHNSON WOULD QUALIFY AS HAVING A PATH TO 270.
>>EVEN A PURELY HYPOTHETICAL ONE.
>>THE MATH, IT IS INCONCEIVABLE -- OR LIMITED, I DON'T KNOW
ABOUT INCONCEIVABLE -- BUT THINGS ARE POTENTIALLY CHANGING.
>> I LIKE HOW CENK SAID, EVEN JILL STEIN CAN'T GET ON 50
BALLOTS.
>>I
SAY THAT BECAUSE THE GREEN PARTY HAS BEEN TRYING FOR A LONG TIME.
>>RALPH
NADER HAD A LOT OF SUPPORT AND IT WAS STILL DIFFICULT.
>>I'M ALREADY COUNTING MY MONEY BECAUSE I MADE BETS A COUPLE
MONTHS AGO THAT THERE WILL BE AT LEAST THREE PEOPLE ON A
NATIONAL DEBATE STAGE, GARY JOHNSON WILL MAKE IT ON.
>>YOU THINK HE WILL FINISH SECOND?
>>NO, THAT HE WILL BE ON THE DEBATE STAGE.
>>GARY JOHNSON, JILL STEIN, AND?
>>ROSEANNE BARR.