-Our first guest tonight
is a United States Senator from Vermont.
Please welcome back to the show Senator Bernie Sanders.
How are you, Senator?
-I'm great, Seth. How are you?
-I'm very well. Last time we had you here
was the day after inauguration
when you were the man who launched a thousands memes.
And I know you're a very issue-oriented guy,
and I do appreciate the time
talking to you about those issues.
But do you miss that your moment of meme has died down a little?
-Well, let me go into my pocket and bring out my mittens here.
It's a bit warm, but -- [ Laughter ]
-That's right. You know what?
I think that's -- a lot of people,
when they had their mitten moment,
they continue to push it.
They'd wear their mittens into the summer.
But you just let it go. You moved on.
-I moved on. Now that it's 90 degrees
here in D.C., I said, "What the hell?
No more mittens." But you know...
-Now, I promise I'm gonna talk about substantive issues
with you today, but at the very end,
I do want to, if you will indulge me,
ask about a few more memes. -[ Laughs ]
-But only when we're done with the substance.
-All right. Let's get to work.
-[ Laughs ] So, there's a lot of focus
on how the early days of the Biden presidency
have been progressive.
And the question I have for you is,
do you think this is a permanent move by the Democratic Party,
or do you think it is temporary based on the crisis
that we have lived through this past year?
-I think it is both, but mostly your first point.
I think the President and his staff are smart.
And on issue after issue, what they see
is that the American people, and certainly people
who consider themselves Democrats,
support a progressive agenda.
So, if you are a good politician and you look out there and say,
"Hey, these ideas are popular.
People who vote for me support them.
You know what? Might be a good idea to do them."
And the second point, though, Seth, is the question you raise,
is the President -- I know this 'cause I've talked to him --
has also looked around this world, right now,
and understands that, in terms of democracy in America,
whether we remain a democratic society,
where we deal with the terrible suffering
of the working families of our country,
who've been left behind,
whether we deal with climate change,
that this is a moment which requires bold,
big thinking and not the same old, same old.
So I think that's where the President is coming from.
-It seems as though the Republican Party
has struggled in trying to frame President Biden
as this progressive firebrand.
And they're using a lot of the attacks
they maybe had prepared for you, had you been the nominee.
Is it interesting as you watch them try to pin down a way
to criticize the Biden presidency so far?
-It is. And the reason they're having
a hard time is that, you know, on almost every issue
that the President is moving forward on,
the American people and many working-class Republicans
support what we are doing.
So if we say that, "In the midst of an economic crisis,
which we are just passing through now,
we're gonna put $2,000 in your pocket
because you may have lost your job,
we're extending unemployment, or expanding healthcare,"
you know what? Working-class Republicans,
not to mention Democrats, say,
"That's a good idea. Thank you, Mr. President."
-One thing that we're noticing and we've talked about
a fair amount on this show is the Republican Party
continuing to choose to be close to President Donald Trump
and their inability to move on and certainly as evidenced
by the fact that they voted
Liz Cheney out of her leadership position.
Now, you are not someone who has much, if anything,
in common with Liz Cheney, but are you surprised
at the speed in which the party sort of kicked her aside?
-Seth, this is a huge issue. I mean, it really is.
In my view, I think that the political debate
in Washington now is not about healthcare or taxes or climate.
It really is -- and I say this without exaggeration --
it is whether or not we remain a Democratic society ruled --
governed by the rule of law.
What Liz Cheney's situation is about, as you've indicated,
she is a very, very conservative Republican.
She's a real right-wing Republican.
But she made a mistake.
She actually understood
that Donald Trump lost the election and Biden won.
And she said, "We had fair election.
Biden won. Trump lost."
And for simply saying that, she was thrown out
of the leadership of the Republican Party.
Because the line is, you know, whatever the line may be,
is we are seeing a party which is less of a party
and more of a cult based around a big lie
that Trump won the election, by the way, by a landslide.
And when you go down that path, that there are Republicans
who have said exactly what I'm saying,
you're going down the path of authoritarianism
and undermining our democratic society.
Very scary stuff.
-Much has been made of how it does seem as though
this is a party, when we talk about the Republican Party,
in disarray, and yet you have warned,
and I think that you are very cognizant of the fact
that you cannot underestimate
the futures of the Republican Party,
not just in 2024 but in 2022 in the midterm elections.
How do you make sure that the Democratic Party, at this point,
understands that the -- you know, this is a very
temporary moment, possibly, insofar as leadership?
-That's -- Look, I don't use the word
"disarray" for the Republican Party.
I don't know that they're in disarray.
I think what they are doing and what their leadership
is about is rallying around Donald Trump,
who is a pathological liar, who is an authoritarian,
who is a racist and a sexist.
They see that as the future of their party.
That's not disarray.
That is where they choose to go.
And you're asking me, "What's the antidote?
How do you deal with that?" And it is not easy.
It is not easy.
I think one way we do it, among many others,
is to make sure that all people,
including working-class Republicans,
understand that government can work for them.
You don't have to, uh --
You know, you don't have to be a racist.
You don't have to be a sexist.
That, in fact, government can respond to your needs.
That's why we are working so hard right now on creating
millions of good-paying jobs, rebuilding our infrastructure,
roads and bridges, expanding that to include education.
If you're a working-class Republican
and you don't like Democrats, but suddenly you see
that your kid can now get a good-quality education
at a cost you can afford, you know what?
You're gonna say, "Thank you, Democrats."
If you see that you have healthcare
when you previously did not, if your minimum wage goes up,
if your community now has decent water and bridges and roads,
you will, I think, begin to understand that government
can work for all of us and not just the few on top.
-I have a lot more to ask you.
We'll be right back with more from Senator Bernie Sanders.